DALinATL From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2559 times:
This may settle your confusion of the ORD-LHR service!
If you recall UAL gained access to LHR via the PAN AM sale!
No, PA did serve ORD-LHR briefly however this authority was traded to TWA. It then went to AA in 1991 when AA purchased TW's LHR routes. It was not part of the 1991 UA-PA sale. UA did not gain authority to serve ORD-LHR until 1995.
L1011Lover From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1002 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2497 times:
...you brought up a pretty good point!
Pan Am and TWA traded so many routes and authorities in the 60´s and 70´s!
And this is how it probably confused us all!
But I mentioned before that several of the routes have been abandoned (or as we now know traded) by Pan Am.
For example in 1975 TWA traded its entire pacific division and Frankfurt to Pan Am for additional London, Paris and Spain flights, (this probably included the ORD-LHR service).I also know that at the time TWA became the dominant carrier out of LHR!
TWA did not resume Frankfurt service until 1981! This was probably also the time when Pan Am returned to Paris?!?! (not sure about that, but will check airchive.com)
Well it was indeed a smart move for both carriers, as Pan Am had its european hub in Frankfurt, while TWA was operating a hub in Paris!
DETA737 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 613 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2430 times:
Ok I'll try to clear up some misconceptions.
First off let's talk about routes to London. Pan Am served ORD-LHR as well as BOS-LHR and PHL-LHR before the 1975 route swap with TWA (TWA gave up DTW-LHR, SFO-LHR and IAD-LHR in return). Both carriers would continue to share LAX-LHR and JFK-LHR. While Pan Am was always the exclusive carrier on the SEA-LHR route. In 1980 after they acquired National, Pan Am began serving MIA-LHR as well (National had been granted LHR route authority in 1970). Around the early 1980s Pan Am was going to begin serving IAH-LGW but pulled out before ever starting the route, since Continental began serving it. It was scheduled to be served with a L-1011-500. In March of 1991 Pan Am sold it's LHR routes to United with the exception of DTW. Since Bermuda II specified only 2 US carriers flying to LHR, Pan Am flew to LGW, it also continued flying MIA-LGW.
Ok so here's a summary:
Atlanta: No non-stop service, but rather a route interchange with Delta to London via Washington, lasted up until 1978.
Boston: service to Lisbon via Santa Maria until 1975, when these two cities became exclusive TWA due to the route swap.
Chicago: service to LHR until 1975. ORD-FRA was briefly served in the late 80s with an A310.
Los Angeles: LAX-LHR and then in 1985 LAX-FRA was inaugurated with a 747.
Miami: In the 60s service to Lisbon and onward to Madrid via San Juan was inaugurated but was cancelled in 1975 due to the route swap. Non-stop service to Frankfurt, London and Paris was inaugurated in 1980 due to Pan Am's acquisition of National Airlines. All these route swere served with 747s by the 1990s. After the Transatlantic routes were sold off to Delta in 1991, MIA-CDG was the very last route served by the airline.
Philadelphia: non-stop service to London until 1975.
Portland: No non-stop service but direct service via Seattle to London.
San Francisco: non-stop service to London. Proposed service to Frankfurt in the late 80s that never started.
San Juan: non-stop service to Lisbon and onwards to Madrid and Rome up until 1975.
Seattle: LHR served until 1991.
Washington: IAD-FRA began in 1985 with 747, while IAD-CDG and IAD-LHR were also served.
: As a former PA employee who flew the FRA-SFO service I can assure you we operated it in 1988-1989. As well as quite a few missed... Some include BOS-L
: Well, I am not a PanAm Expert, but I found an old timetable from June 74 and so I have to add some fine-tuning to the last post: San Juan: Non-stop to