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Virgin Atlantic Looks To 777s, A340s For £1B Order  
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Posted (10 years 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 9172 times:

Virgin Atlantic Airways Limited - 49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited - A Member of Star Alliance- The Airline Network For Earth - and a participant of the KrisFlyer frequent flyer programme - has said that it is looking to order up to £1 billion / US$1.6941 billion.

Capacity this year will increase 7% with the arrival of new A340-600s. The Airline wants to add new aircraft which are more efficient and cheaper to fly to new destinations in the United States of America, the Carribean, Africa and Asia.

"We are talking to Boeing about the 777s and Airbus about more A340-600s. The 777 is a serious option for us," said CEO Steven Ridgway. Such planes would be delivered in 2005 and 2006.

The market is "still tough," and "we are still small enough, we are riding the storm pretty well. This year is not any easier than last year," added Mr. Ridgway.

More information at the Business Times Singapore / Bloomberg website

Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked webpage. Information was rephrased and not copied and pasted. Currency conversion from United Kingdom Sterling to U.S.A. Dollars courtesy of the Singaporeair.com Currency Converter

[Edited 2003-10-28 09:44:59]


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5293 posts, RR: 61
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 8872 times:

If he is talking about A340-600s, than it must be the B777-300ER from Boeing. While I generally believe anything can happen in aircraft orders, it makes absolutely no sense for Virgin to operate both A340-600s and B777-300ERs in such a small fleet (B777-200s to replace A340-300s are another story).

"We are talking to Boeing about the 777s and Airbus about more A340-600s. The 777 is a serious option for us,"

can be translated as

"Oh Airbus, look we are talking to Boeing, please give us a lower price or we might go with them"

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 7 hours ago) and read 8807 times:

It probably is a waste of Boeing's time and money to talk to VS any way. I would be very surprised and my eyes would be as wide as earth if VS orders ONE 777. I would love to see VS having 777s. But like many people said and I 'm just going to repeat it just for the heck of it. It's going to be a pride thing(the 4 engine crap)


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 6 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

I'll bet Virgin are telling Airbus that Boeing are offering to come in and purchase all their A340s, their spares, and provide a 40 percent discount.

However, I think Airbus have been at this game a little longer then Virgin, and they'll do just fine.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4745 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 8596 times:

Yup it will be very very stupid on VSs part to order B 773s and have them alongside B 744s and A 346s...logic and basic sense would say to order more A 346s or sell all of them and replace them all with B 773ERs!!!

Werent the A 346s replacing the A 343s? If so when are they being phased out?


User currently offlineMyt332 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 9112 posts, RR: 71
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 5 hours ago) and read 8400 times:

The A343's are being replaced by the A346's yes, but when, i'm not sure. I imagine it's why some A343's still havent been re-painted in the new c/s, although why have some been?

Wouldn't Virgin be best to keep their 4 engine aircraft for if/when LROPS comes in. They'd be able to fly routes that the 777's couldn't?? Does anybody see were i'm going with this i'm not too sure myself,  Confused



One Life, Live it.
User currently offlineHUYfan From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 1405 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 8217 times:

It HAS to be a dead cert that VS will go Airbus. They would look pretty stupid if they opted for twinjets after their blatant slandering of twinjets. Airbus it is!

Regards

Mike


User currently offlineMD-11 forever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 8130 times:

@Singapore_Air

What a pity indeed......... I hope that VS, 49% owned by Singapore Airlines Limited, a proud Member of Star Alliance (why the hell isn't VS there yet?) the network for earth is choosing and selecting their planes by commercial and economical reasons and not "by the flavour of the month"!  Big grin

Cheers, Thomas


User currently offlineVSMike From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 318 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7741 times:

Isn't corporate rivalry great!?! If VS talk to Boeing, the price & terms of Airbus come waaaay down. Simple.

Sorry, no 777 for VS anytime soon. No need for fleet diversification like that. Keepin' it simple...

VSM



Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7690 times:

"So why not put our minds at ease and quote your source for your earlier statements?"

Manzoori: It's somewhere in the forums but because the search feature I feel is very inadequate now I shall not bother..yet



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4488 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7668 times:

Funny how often the enlightened are often put down but the ignorant and stupid.

Alright, Mohammed  Big grin You win the award for the most insecure person of the day.

Anyhow...
I'm jumping on the "Branson propaganda" bandwagon for this. While I would love to see VS get some B777's, I just don't see it making loads of sense.




I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7985 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7610 times:

I think VS is trying to get a decent deal on about 8-12 A340-600HGW's that will be delivered from 2005 on.

Mind you, it'll be kind of unlikely VS will fly the A346HGW to SFO; SFO is a very popular destination for VS and it's more likely VS will eventually fly the A380-800 to SFO instead.  Smile


User currently offlineMotech722 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 211 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7608 times:

I look at the article and the title says it all, "considering". The title does not say that Virgin is going to buy B777s, so it is just propaganda. Its as a few of you have already said, VS is just playing the field. If Boeing offers one deal, then VS can probably get a better deal from Airbus.


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Photo © Graeme Bolton



Korg747, you're probably right, "it probably is a waste of Boeing's time and money to talk to VS any way." True, but in the business of aircraft sales, any potential sale is needed. Airbus has tried to break into the Japanese market for years, but so far hasn't (except for the A321 deal with ANA, which now ANA is replacing with Boeings). If Boeing could get a Virgin order, then that certainly would be news, but it seems that VS is just playing the field, which is the smart thing for any airline to do.

Take Care


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 7579 times:

IMHO Virgin is using Boeing as a bargaining chip in their dealings with Airbus. I suspect that Boeing is more than happy to do this. At the very least they could help Virgin get a good deal on A340's. Thus cutting into Airbuses profit margin on the aircraft.

User currently offlineGoAround From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months ago) and read 7451 times:

~: 4 Engines 4 Long Haul :~

So what do you think they're going to go for?

GoAround



GoAround
User currently offlineShamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months ago) and read 7358 times:

"4 Engines 4 Long Haul" is just a slogan to get publicity and make people think that VS aircraft are 'safer' than rivals twinjets like BA 777s. I don't think Branson actually believes 777s are dangerous!

Declan


User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months ago) and read 7341 times:

I know Virgin is kind of limited by that 4 engine dabacle, but I personally think the aircraft that would suit them best for opening new routes and increasing frequencies on others would be the A332. If the A346 eventually is the smallest member of the fleet, I would imagine it would be very difficult opening new routes, as those routes would instantly have to support an aircraft that has almost 400 seats.

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4742 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7296 times:

People,

4 Engines 4 Long Haul is nothing more than an ad slogan or a portion of branding. If VS deems 777's are the best aircraft suited to the routes required, they will order it. History proves marketing campaigns and overall positioning (whether strategic positioning, marketing, or equity) changes over time.

I doubt VS will not look at the 777 simply because it is 2 engined.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineGoAround From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7268 times:

True... but Branson's not one to back out of his word, is he?

I'm sure they'd find something to say, but this looks like Virgin digging for a good deal from Airbus...

GoAround



GoAround
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7240 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe Branson will order some 777's as revenge against Airbus for not letting him have Concorde?  Big grin



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7186 times:

On the one hand it makes sense for Boeing to play along in this game (even though it's unlikely they will win an order) just to see Airbus' margins severely cut.

On the other hand it would be fun to punish VS (for wasting Boeing's time pretending to want 777's) by issuing a press release stating that Boeing is not in negotiations with VS. That would certainly make VS angry b/c Airbus won't discount their planes nearly as much.



User currently offlineAirchabum From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 769 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

Is Boeing selling that many a/c at the moment that they can afford to turn their noses up at a potential £1B order? I think not. VS is a significant Boeing customer (13th brand new 744 delivered this week) so it's not a foregone conclusion that the order will go to Airbus.

As I've said before, the 346 is a very good a/c for the routes that VS currently uses it on, ie mainly Far East. However a lot of Virgin's network is US Eastern Seaboard, India, Nigeria (with more routes to India, Africa and Mid East being sought) so an a/c that can fly 12hrs with max payload is not really required.

In a Virgin boardroom somewhere.....
Head of plane buying: "Hey guys I've just negotiated a deal for a fleet of new 777's that will save us £5M per year in operating costs!!"
CEO: "That's great! Oh but hang on, we've got a slogan painted on some of our a/c"
Head of plane buying: "Ok well forget it then"
I think it'll take more than a stupid slogan (which probably only people on a.net really notice anyway) to decide the airlines fleet for the next 10yrs.



Biggidy biggidy bong
User currently offlineAirchabum From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 769 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Behramjee

2 of the A340-300's are leaving the fleet this year. They were originally planned to leave as the 600's arrived but I'm not sure how many will be retained or how long they'll stay for.

Singapore Air

Why isn't the 346 'flavour of the month'? I work for VS and we're very happy with it. Care to enlighten us?

RayChuang

I think you're getting some A340 flts to SFO soon but will check the details at work later.

Cheers



Biggidy biggidy bong
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13738 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6779 times:

Well I read on the forum that Virgin Atlantic and Hong Kong's de facto flag carrier were not happy with the landing gear component (dunno which) that need replacing more times than expected and the despatch reliability is not as promised...


Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6630 times:

Well I read on the forum that Virgin Atlantic and Hong Kong's de facto flag carrier were not happy with the landing gear component (dunno which) that need replacing more times than expected and the despatch reliability is not as promised...

not to mention the severely overweight wing on the currently delivered models  Big grin


25 Post contains images Airchabum : Singapore Air I don't know about CX but VS's first few a/c did need to go for a landing gear modification. It was just a one-off thing though and not
26 Dalecary : Everyone seems to forget VS were on the verge of ordering 777s before S11. I believe they may have gone as far as signing an LOI or MOU. They have ser
27 Airchabum : Dale Good points. I had heard that the 2 343's leaving the fleet this year would be going to the French Air Force but I've not heard anything recently
28 Post contains images B2707SST : With new figures from 777-300ER flight testing, the A340-600 has a 5 nm range advantage , although forthcoming HGW versions of both may change this. W
29 Gigneil : With new figures from 777-300ER flight testing, the A340-600 has a 5 nm range advantage  , although forthcoming HGW versions of both may change this.
30 Artsyman : While all of you are so quick to rule out Boeing here, please note that Virgin has more Boeing aircraft than they do Airbus when you consider Virgin B
31 Dalecary : As an afterthought VS said they want the planes in 2005 and 2006. The 346HGW won't be available until 2006,whereas the 773ER is available from 2004 an
32 Captaink : 4 engines 4 longhaul? That is just Bransons idea of having a little by mocking BA.. But all jokes aside, airlines want to survive and make money. If a
33 ConcordeBoy : People in this board have assumed the 773ER is the bird VS is looking at.... ..but the possibility still remains that they'll order 772ER to replace A
34 Post contains links B2707SST : Gigneil - Neither the A340-600 or the 777-300ER with normal pax loads is operating at max range, i.e. the tanks aren't full, so payload can be traded
35 Dalecary : There is speculation at the Orders forum that the VS deal is tied up with the SQ 773ER/346 competition. In fact, it appears VS made their 380 order fr
36 RayChuang : Dale, Given that SQ will receive their A340-500's, I have this feeling that Airbus may be about to offer a very lucrative maintenence deal that combin
37 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : and you think Boeing's just going to sit around and let that all go down... particularly considering that the longhaul needs of the world's second lar
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