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Next Strategy For US At PHL?  
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4252 times:

I'm sure everybody knows full well the impact that WN had on the aviation community Tuesday. US has to be reeling about the news. If you were in charge of US, what would you do to combat the presence?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

Well for starters, they should reduce their fares, and start a frequent flyer program as simple as that at WN, and offer a companion pass to those who
fly 50 segments within a 12 month period. But, they won't, and WN will
prevail in PHL, jsut like they hav ein every other city they hit.


User currently offlineFlaps From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

R E T R E A T

Im sure the folks in Alabama could make a case for moving the transatlantic hub to Montgomery....Oh wait, maybe that is just a tad too close to WN in Birmingham. Hee Hee.


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

I'm sure what US will actually do is take their head, stick it between their two legs, and kiss their rear ends goodbye...as a frequent US Airways traveler, I'm actually slightly angered by the news...I'm one of those people who doesn't particularly like WN, because they never have decent advance-purchase long-haul fares, and because I'm not a big fan of their first-come-into-seat, first-serve (unless you get up) seating...additionally, their sole competitor on a lot of routes that I fly with US is Delta, and I am not exactly fond of the Atlanta-based carrier...right now, I'm just counting down the days until US Airways gets bought up, hopefully by American...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Reducing fares even further (whether they need to or not) will put increased pressure on US in an already extremely tight (that's putting it mildly) revenue environment, and going into the winter months, that doesn't bode well for US, who has already posted a larger than expected loss for Q3.

Not knowing a lot about US, my proposals are either going to be limited in scope or way off base. But, I'll take a shot:
- If possible, put 737 or possibly RJ aircraft on routes that will compete with WN.
- Offer the same incentive plan on only those routes that will compete with WN.
- Hope that WN is hampered by delays that seem to plague PHL (as mentioned above)

I don't know...SunValley is very right in saying WN can apply their model anywhere and come out on top. Given that, I have no doubt that WN researched very carefully this PHL market vs. other options for a long period of time, and chose PHL for many well-founded reasons. This is only going to put more pressure on US this winter, how they respond will determine how strong they will continue to be in the east.



User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 830 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

Introduce lower fares in the same markets as WN with the Embraer 170. Advertise these lower fares on Television and do like virgin by writing on our planes.... maybe something like
" No SW at PHL"
"Fly US, we're patriotic"
"We fly to all four corners of the US"


User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Wait till you see the marketing campaign they will undertake when they open up PHL. It is so unbelievable US will in no way meet the splash they make.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4092 times:

I think the only chance US really has is to start having the dark blue A-330's flying from PHL to just about every city in Europe that Dave Siegel has ever heard of...otherwise, I better enroll in Mileage Plus...


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25706 posts, RR: 85
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4088 times:
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They've already announced what they will do next - ask for more pay cuts from the staff.

Their basic problem is that, despite the bankruptcy, they still have a very high CASM.

They've also lost money since they came out of bk - even during this past summer which was a junior bonanza for many airlines.

So they have a problem lowering fares because they'll go even deeper into the red.

On balance, I'm with Shupirate1's first sentence.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

I'm afraid the Bird with the UPC flag on it's tail may be on its way out of PHL to the extent it has been there.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4078 times:

I think this could break the back of USAirways. I would wager that they are going to fly to LAX, OAK, MDW, PHX, LAS, STL at a minimum. They are going to eliminate the cream that USAirways has been depending on in PHL.

If I were USAirways, I would be locking in corporate customers that use PHL heavily (e.g. Merck) with some long-term sweet deals. Since fares are bound to drop, best to steer whatever dollars your way.


User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4049 times:

SHUPirate1
I wouldn't be joining mileage Plus so quick. Who knows what's going to happen to United in the future. And if the reason your joining MP is because US is gone. Well the alliance with US is one of UA's backbones out of Chap.11. I think if by some chance US fails UA would be shortly after it. UA may even fail without US going under.


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4016 times:

SHUPirate...I'd start using your Dividend Miles ASAP...I for one am getting rid of them realllll soon....WN in PHL is the knockout blow to US IMO...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

I believe that US HAS limit their exposure to WN's presence. If you ask what that means, then follow my thinking. Right now WN gets 4 gates. They have said in the past that they can comfortably do 10-11 flights/day per gate. That maxes PHL out at 44 flights/day. If I was US, I would buy up every gate imaginable at PHL just like BA does in LHR. If they can limit their exposure to 40 flights/day to WN, they will survive on the other routes and hopefully generate enough International traffic with Star. As an example of what I mean, look at DTW for example. WN had been up there for a while now and have neither wanted to or have been able expand their presence. NW is probably losing their shirt on competing routes, but has figured out how to make up for it on noncompeting routes with higher yields. US has to make sure that WN cannot get enough gates and flights out of PHL to mortally wound them in the long term. I feel that this is the final showdown for both. If US wants to stay in business they cannot retreat from PHL. Their investment in the airport is astronomical and would deal them a death blow.
If they can afford to lose MCO, PHX, PVD, upper New York state and some other revenue generating markets, they could live a little longer. Worse case scenario is that they will buy out Mesa and ACA and become a regional feeder for UAL and Star............................................ Crying


User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

I doubt that the DOT would allow US to ditch upstate New York...Jamestown, Massena, Ogdensburg, and Watertown are all served only by Mesa-owned Air Midwest Airlines (US Airways Express) from PIT...

COEWRNJ-welcome to my respected users list...thanks for the advice...

[Edited 2003-10-29 06:37:04]


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

I was referring to BUF and other WN destinations, not necessarily the small jumps.

User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3932 times:

This is bleak. The best advice is to buy up all the gates at PHL... Maybe they should try to buy out the next 5 year's supply of 737's to keep SWA and AirTran from adding flights. Big grin

Allegedly(from a pretty good source), the USAir VP of Finance said they were on the brink of insolvency. I don't know why he would have said that in the forum in which he said it(semi-public), but who knows?

USAir was is deep s*** two days ago and today didn't help. Here's to hoping the teachers of Alabama get to enjoy a taste of what the USAir employees have when it's time to retire... Sad TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3877 times:

Do you think that any of the creditors are sweating bullets right now?

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3853 times:

Even assuming WN does build a huge station at PHL, USairways could survive. America West survives against WN in Phoenix and Las Vegas. But USairways would have to radically alter their cost structure in order to pull this off.

My suspicion is that WN intends this mainly as an O&D airport. They just need to cover the population that is close by and is only served by network carriers to most destinations. It will end up kind of like LAX is. It will get a fair ammount of WN service, but it will by no means be a major "hub".


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

US can't "buy up" gates at PHL, because the airport is not signing any new exclusive-use agreements. It's not like BA at LHR, because LHR is slot-contolled and PHL is not. (On the plus side, there are probably a few more gates to use for WN in the future, but none more in Terminal E, making it difficult for WN to expand.)

What I would suggest US to do is a bit unorthodox. I think the only way WN will pullout of PHL is if the delays are just too much of a problem. Remember the nightmare of LGA a few years back when everyone opened a million and one new commuter routes? Well that's what I suggest US should turn PHL into. Fly every plane it can find through PHL as often as possible. Turn the place into a total parking lot. They can bully around FL on routes like PIT-LGA, PIT-MDW, PHL-PIT (and PHL-BOS), but it's not going to work against WN. This calls for some drastic measures. I just don't think that US management is capable of thinking outside the box.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3420 posts, RR: 16
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Who do you think they could move from E to say D if the gates in D were available? What about moving UA down to where US runs out of in B/C?

User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

coewrnj,
if us goes under why cant we take a page out of the co book of economic/stratagey bk filling???aka(lorenzo school of aviation mgmt)..do you really think ua will come out of bk when us is going under????they will duck and hide till the time is right all in the guise of the bk court,,,,,,,my bet is leo will take the good ol boy network into judge wedoffs bankruptcy room of horrors in chicago-atl annex and make fl the real bitch



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3786 times:

Currently at D, US holds two gates that i'm sure the city has been trying to get back from them for a while. Other than that America West holds 1 and Continental holds 2 and there is 1 unused gate. For an airline at E to move to D they need at least 3 gates. Currently NW and Delta are the biggest tenants at E an NW has 3 gates and Delta has i think 5.

So it's possible if SWA really wanted more gates at E that the city could try to get NW to move to the 3 gates at D if they got the two back from US. However, Airtran is steadily expanding in PHL with 19 daily fights in Feb., and i am interested to see what they do after this SWA announcement. Currently Airtran holds 3 out of the 4 new gates built at D this year. It can easily pick up the 4th and make it just about impossible for any airline to move from E to D.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

I think FL does have all 4 new gates in D, even if it's only using 3 right now. Anyway, FL's old gates in F are available, and there are probably some gates in A-East available too. NW won't move out of E because of the WorldClub. DL also has a club, but its club is outside security and would probably be a bit easier to move, still unlikely though. That just leaves TZ and YX.

Speaking of security, flying out of E is already a nightmare with that awful bottleneck. This is going to be an absolute disaster, since there's no more room to add more security stations, and you can't get into E from any of the other terminals.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3474 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

On airtran's website it says they only hold 3 gates at D, but i'm sure they've often looked at eventually taking the 4th, especially now.

There is not much room at A-East. Don't think that just because US went to A-west that the terminal is now empty. In reality US was only parking about 2 or 3 international planes at the terminal and the rest were remotely parked. Now American holds 6 gates i believe. And British Airways, Air Jamaica, USA 3000 use the international gates. Currently Air France arrives at one of the new A-west gates and departs from E and Lufthansa I think just recently switched from A-east to A-west. So you might be able to move YX because they only have 2 flights but thats about it.

There are no gates at F, Airtran was using US Express gates and US wanted them out as soon as possible. The only reason they were there was because their gates at D were being built. Don't expect anyone but US Express at F for a while.


25 9844 : One point no one has made is the stampeed of US AIR employee's that will go to WN.... That will hurt. The Alabama state pension guy should have learne
26 SunValley : The news for US in the last few weeks is pretty bleak. ON one hand they are hit with WN opening up in PHL, and at another of their strongholds (PIT) t
27 Post contains images AirT85 : As said earlier, USAirways can't fight by locking up gates-the city of Philadelphia is currently trying to force USAirways out of some of its leases.
28 727LOVER : and then two of their planes land with box-cutters onboard HUH???!!! WHAT'S THIS????
29 GSPSPOT : I'm all for low fares, but the thought of having to fly WN depresses me. Their planes are (or a least were) murky inside, and I NEVER found them to be
30 Aaway : Depends on the markets WN decides to serve. Short hauls - replace mainline US with RJs. US will still be at a cost disadvantage, but the disparity wi
31 VectorVictor : Well they could strike right at the heart of Texas by opening nonstops from Austin and San Antonio to their hubs at PHL and Charlotte. Not a big salvo
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