DAL12 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5707 times:
Your numbers for the 175 are not correct -- there is an order from Jet Airways from India for 10 aircraft, but I doubt it is a signed firm orders. So the figures are very very close. However, obviously the EMBs have a bigger backlog since the CR7 has been in production for two years already.
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 19 Reply 2, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5693 times:
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4070 posts, RR: 46 Reply 4, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5615 times:
Well, according to Embraer their figures look quite different:
EMB-170
Air Caraibes.....2
Alitalia............6
Cirrus Airlines...1
GECAS............5
LOT...............6
SWISS...........15
US Airways......85
120 Total
NO EMB-175 orders
EMB-190
JetBlue.........100
Undisclosed.....10
EMB-195
SWISS............15
Paints quite a different picture on the Embraers as those are now only 245 firm orders (30+ of them are shaky, 2 are not confirmed by the airline) opposed to 327 you´ve listed.
DAL12 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5559 times:
Flying Tiger:
Paints quite a different picture on the Embraers as those are now only 245 firm orders (30+ of them are shaky, 2 are not confirmed by the airline) opposed to 327 you´ve listed.
But even discarding the Swiss order, the 215 aircraft are pure backlog. For the CR7 and CR9, the backlog stands at around 130-135. BBD has gone a very good production run with poor finances, while Embraer has suffered a bigger production decline (at least in RJs) and developed a new type in relatively better shape.
I think we are definitely witnessing a big shift in momentum, and I would be very surprised if 3 years from now BBD did not lose its position as the #3 commercial manufacturer.
Boieng747-400 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5412 times:
Swiss have a total of 30 Embraers on order. However these are 15 175s and 15 195s. Swiss is trying desperately to get rid of that order as they really don't need those planes.
Vector From Brazil, joined Apr 2000, 214 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (8 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5374 times:
Maybe in a few months this backlog can be increased by orders from Star Alliance (maybe from a split order), Westjet or maybe (difficult) from Southwest.
"WestJet mulls order for Embraer jet; Move could hurt Bombardier, Air Canada - The Globe and Mail,
Keith McArthur - 28/10/2003
WestJet Airlines Ltd. is talking to Embraer SA about a potential order for 100-seat jets — a development that could have negative implications for both Bombardier Aerospace and Air Canada.
WestJet executives took a test flight on an Embraer 170 jet yesterday in Calgary, where the discount airline is based. "One-hundred-seat jets are very much a possibility" for WestJet, said a source close to the company. "It would allow us back into the Sudburys and Sault Ste. Maries of the world."
WestJet pulled out of those two Ontario markets in September because there were too many empty seats in its larger jets.
If WestJet does place an order with Embraer, it could be more aggressive in its competition with Air Canada. And Bombardier Aerospace would be left on the sidelines in another significant deal.
Traditionally, low-cost airlines have kept their costs low by sticking to one aircraft type. Since its inception in 1996, WestJet has flown only Boeing 737s. The airline is gradually replacing its 120-seat 737-200s with 140-seat 737-700s.
In June, New York-based discounter JetBlue Airways Corp. ordered 100 mid-sized Embraer jets to add to its fleet of Airbus A320s.
At the time, JetBlue chief executive officer David Neeleman said the airline would be well-positioned to serve markets of all sizes across the United States.
Then last week, Southwest Airlines Co. announced that it was also eyeing the Embraer jet.
Embraer's success with the discount carriers poses a challenge for Montreal-based Bombardier, which competes aggressively with Brazil's Embraer in the regional jet market.
"The big problem Bombardier's facing is that their planes aren't even being considered in this equation. The competitive implications of this for Bombardier could be very serious," said Ben Cherniavsky, an analyst with Raymond James Ltd. in Vancouver.
Bombardier and Embraer took different tacks in developing their mid-sized jets. While Bombardier stretched its business jet to seat up to 90 passengers, Embraer took more time to develop a new jet for the 90- to 100-seat market.
"Bombardier isn't even in the game," the WestJet source said. "If they build a 100-seater from the ground up, it will be too late for our tastes."
The source said the Bombardier aircraft also can't accommodate WestJet's plans to install individual monitors with live satellite television for each passenger.
Mr. Cherniavsky said Bombardier appears to have little choice but to design its own version of a 100-seat jet from scratch.
WestJet is looking at the Embraer 190, which has about 98 seats, or the 195, which has 108 seats.
As an alternative, the company is considering a smaller version of the Boeing 737. WestJet has already fulfilled its obligation to buy 26 aircraft from Seattle-based Boeing Co., but has options remaining to buy another 52. The company has the option of taking some of these jets in the 118-seat 737-600 variety.
Mr. Cherniavsky said an order for the Embraer jets could have negative implications for Air Canada and its proposed fleet plan.
The Montreal-based airline, which has been operating under bankruptcy protection since April 1, has said it is looking to retire about 40 aircraft — including its Boeing 737s and Boeing 747s and to place an order for 85 new jets with 85 to 110 seats.
Air Canada is considering jets from one or more of Bombardier, Boeing, Airbus and Embraer.
WestJet has crunched the numbers and believes it could operate the Embraer aircraft at unit costs about 45 per cent below Air Canada's.
"That throws a monkey wrench into their latest plan," the WestJet source said.
WestJet spokeswoman Siobhan Vinish confirmed that WestJet executives were taking a test flight on an Embraer jet yesterday.
"We have a responsibility to look at all products that are out there," Ms. Vinish said.
Michel Leblanc, president of Montreal-based Jetsgo Corp., said his airline has also looked at adding smaller jets to its fleet of Boeing MD-83s, but will not do so before 2005. Mr. Leblanc said Jetsgo is only looking at jets with more than 100 seats."
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