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SFO In 2004  
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 5001 times:

What new airlines or new routes from existing airlines or added frequencies do you guys see for SFO in 2004? I see EI, VN, GF, EK, if the open skies is okd, and maybe AZ or SK coming, and I think that maybe in Dec we could see SQ's 345 doing nonstops to SIN. I also expect that TZ will open up some new routes. UA could open up AUS, SAT, or BDL nonstops too. Maybe some new STAR carriers will come too, such as TG or BMI. What are your thoughts?

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1521 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4747 times:

I think most of the new activity at SFO will be of an international flavor. I do not believe UA will open any new domestic routes from SFO in 2004.


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32567 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4698 times:

The potential for the airlines you mentioned is definitley there, but they are not all going to show up. I'd say one or two new airlines for SFO in 2004, though it be hard to guess which ones. bmi british midland won't be one of them, however. They are most definitley going to launch Miami or Boston this summer if they decide to add a third U.S. destination.


a.
User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Best Bets-

EI, VN, EK, AZ

Least Likely-

GF, SK, BMI, TG

Aer Lingus, is currently looking at San Francisco. The most recent word is that they have been offered San Jose. San Jose, may only play well if it is built into a One World Hub.. Chances of that -null!

Vietnam Airlines is taking delivery of further 777-200ER and mostly like will be serviing San Francisco by years end 2004!

Emirates, has filed for the service. However, the services to the U.S. are being delayed due to security issues. Most likely cleared up by years end 2004!

Alitalia, has been rumored to be looking at both San Francisco and Washington D.C. Most likely of the two is San Francisco. Alitalia, pulled out due to the ridiculous cargo/pax restrictions on the 767-300. Alitalia, has served the Los Angeles market as well. However, most traffic is from Northern California. Alitalia, will have to wait until sometime in 2004 when the new 777's are recieved!


User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

I can't see bmi going there. With destinations of Chicago and Washington, i'm sure they'd be more interested in the east coast and i'm sure there are more important east coast destinations to serve than San Francisco. I can't see Gulf Air going there either. SFO to the Gulf is almost like London to Sydney. It's a long route, and if they did start something like that i'm sure they'd pick Los Angeles over San Francisco.

Aer Lingus looks like a good option though

-Stephen


User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

Scandinavian Airlines was supposed to launch service from Scandinavia (CPH and ARN) to SFO, but after the 11th those plans disappeared. Hopefully as the economy comes back from the recession they might actually start the route.

I dont know much about the demographics of San Francisco in terms of how many Scandinavians there are, but I am sure that tourism would be a primary push for SAS to start this route. San Francisco is beautiful!!



MEA321
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

I have heard GF in the spring. It will supposedly be routed SFO-GVA-BAH, also JFK-GVA-BAH. It is because of all the silicon valley firms that are helping rebuild Iraq, and they chose GVA because of all the UN firms there. The flights will be timed to connect with the BAH-Iraq flights.

User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4411 times:

It mystifies me why GF would come to SFO. Just because a few companies have contracts in Iraq, it does not mean the planes will be full. For example, Bechtel Corp of San Francisco is one of the main companies rebuilding Iraq. They have a total of 100 personnel from the San Francisco office in Iraq at one time. All the other employees are from their London and Middle East offices. If all those 100 employees decide to fly back to SFO at one time, it would not even fill up half that A340.

As far as Aer Lingus goes. I was talking with a Customs Officer at SJC today and they are getting word that the city/airport in San Jose is pushing hard for the service. Being that the valley's offices are at about 21% vacant, I hope they are not relying on the business crowd to fill their planes. I also can't imagine that a family in Cork is going to spend their vacation in San Jose.



John@SFO
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4388 times:

MEA321:
I live here in San Francisco. I've dated many, many hot Swedish and Norwegian babes. There is enough demand here in San Francisco to support SAS.
We need more A340 traffic here.
It was sad to see Singapore Air replace the SFO route with 777s.  Sad
The only A340 we get is Air Philipeans(sp). It comes in and leaves under the cloak of darkness.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4340 times:

AF flies in their A340 during the winter months. Also, VS is flying in an A340 for a few dates or possibly the winter months.


John@SFO
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39659 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4311 times:

Legacyins:
Thanks for the info!
Can't wait!  Smokin cool



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

the US and EU are in open skies talks. It is very likely that the SNN stopover will be dropped, and then EI will be granted the cities they want. It will sure be cool to see the green 330s of EI coming into SFO! I think that SK and TG could come in too. oh, and superfly, if GF does indeed start services in the spring, they too will be flying 343s in.

User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4237 times:

No one can afford SFO. I would bet that San Jose and Oakland win more domestic new routes...Like Horizon's Sun Valley route. But you never know.

User currently offlineLegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2042 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4218 times:

The SF Airport commission lowered landing fees by 50% to any carrier who started a new route from SFO.

I know there are individuals who would like to see new International air service from Oakland/ San Jose. As we all know, these flights would require Immigration/Customs clearance. Right now, Immigration Officers from the San Francisco airport travel to Oakland/ San Jose to clear those flights. By taking officers from the larger SFO, it slows down the arrivals and processing of passengers at SFO. One day, it could come about that the Customs may say that all international flights land at SFO only. If the manpower is not there, they may use this excuse to staff only one airport.



John@SFO
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7965 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

I definitely see AZ return to SFO in 2004, mostly because AZ knows they can get traffic on the MXP-SFO-MXP route. By using the 777-200ER, AZ can fly this route year-round with no pax/cargo restrictions.  Smile

User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4135 times:


ALITALIA.... please come back!

For domestic flights... lets leave that to OAK and SJC!

AMERICAN AIRLINES.... please switch the SJC-NRT to SFO!



LHR001


User currently offlineCopaair737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

does anyone actually see AA moving the AA), Japan">NRT-SJC flight to SFO? I think it could be logical, as AA has somekind of a feed there, and there would be alot of O and D traffic. SJC has silicon valley though, but maybe SFO could get that. An interesting scenario could be if SFO becomes like the JFK of the west coast with mainly intl traffic, and the domestic feed goes to SJC and OAK.

User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

I don't see why AA just doesn't move that 777 svc from SJC to SFO. From SFO Airport..you can get into San Jose faster than you can get into the city of SFO! Why AA doesn't do it (esp. since they shutdown their SJC mini-hub) completely leaves me dumbfounded! It's not like if they left....some other carrier would rush right in to fill the void..(void? what void?)

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32567 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4053 times:

does anyone actually see AA moving the AA), Japan">AA), Japan">NRT-SJC flight to SFO? I think it could be logical, as AA has somekind of a feed there, and there would be alot of O and D traffic.

No, it is not happening. Why in the world would American Airlines move from having the only trans-Pacific flight from the San Jose area to a crowded market to compete with ANA, United, Northwest, and JAL from SFO? That is just ridiculous and it would be a stupid move on thier part. And while SFO has "some kind of feed", the AA), Japan">NRT-SJC flight is still mainly O&D, with the limited feed coming from Las Vegas and San Diego, feed that SFO does not have with AA.



a.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5613 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

MAH4546 I have to disagree, it isn't stupid at all..those same ODs in SJC will just have to drive a bit further..less than those from the city of SFO to SFO. Plus whatever feed AA has into SJC (and it does has some) can easily be consolidated with AA SFO ops. But I what think AA resents is the influence UA has at SFO. UA's muscle at SFO is unmatched at any airport/carrier in the US. I don't even think AA has a much influence over DFW officials as UA does at SFO. I've never seen anything like it. Perhaps AA enjoys 'running' the show at SJC.


BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
User currently offlineSk945 From Sweden, joined May 2002, 432 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

SAS plan to start CPH-SFO were dropped after 911, but also, the reason that there are no plan to start right now, are that the demand for IT-business related travell have dropped, wish from the begining were the main reason to start the SFO route.

User currently offlineLHR001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3901 times:

MAH4546,

To clear up your misconseption!

American Airlines has served San Francsico for years!

San Francisco at one time had offer daily 747 service to Chicago, Dallas, Honolulu, and New York!

San Francisco, is much more profitable than San Jose.

American Airlines at SFO-

SFO-BOS
SFO-JFK
SFO-LAX
SFO-MIA
SFO-DFW
SFO-ORD
SFO-HNL
SFO-STL

In addition San Francsico has had widebody aircraft in place where narrowbody aircraft are flying San Jose.

Do you recall the failures in the past with San Jose. And they were very large at that!

SJC-NRT (downgarded to 767-300 during 1990's, lack of demand)
SJC-TPE (lasted only several months on a 777-200)
SJC-CDG (lasted only several months on a 767-300)

American Airlines, has in the past built San Jose, dropped San Jose, built San Jose... and now... drop it may seem is the next course of action.

San Francisco is served by One World airlines -

British Airways - 2 x SFO-LHR
JAL - SFO-NRT

The fact of the matter is that most of American Airlines traffic in San Jose has lower fares, and more of the crowd that would compete with Southwest Airlines rather than United Airlines. There has been a lot of talk in the Bay Area, that SFO is prime to become a Sole-International and Domestic Long-Haul airport. This would leave San Jose and Oakland to fend for the domestic jumps.

People in San Francisco >>> DO NOT <<< like the San Jose airport, it is nearly an hour by car, and most of all only has one route to cling to and tht is the SJC-NRT! You may say the San Jose flight is fed by Las Vegas and San Diego. that is a nice point...

You need to remember the American Airlines SJC-NRT is now in competition with LAX-NRT, ORD-NRT, DFW-NRT, and JFK-NRT!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32567 posts, RR: 72
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

San Francisco, is much more profitable than San Jose.

And you know this how?


Do you recall the failures in the past with San Jose. And they were very large at that!

SJC-NRT (downgarded to 767-300 during 1990's, lack of demand)
SJC-TPE (lasted only several months on a 777-200)
SJC-CDG (lasted only several months on a 767-300)


And you know that NRT-SJC, which was only flown with MD11s and 772s IIRC, is a failure how? It is still operating, is it not?

San Francisco is served by One World airlines -

British Airways - 2 x SFO-LHR
JAL - SFO-NRT


What's your point? Plus, JAL is not in oneWorld


People in San Francisco >>> DO NOT <<< like the San Jose airport, it is nearly an hour by car, and most of all only has one route to cling to and tht is the SJC-NRT!

NEWS FLASH! People in San Jose >>> DO NOT <<< like San Francisco International Airport, it is nearly an hour by car! And, another news flash, San Jose is the largest city proper in the San Francisco Bay Area, larger than San Francisco or Oakland.

You need to remember the American Airlines SJC-NRT is now in competition with LAX-NRT, ORD-NRT, DFW-NRT, and JFK-NRT!

Your point? The JFK-NRT flight is almost entirely O&D. DFW-NRT has a lot of connecting traffic. LAX-NRT, when it starts, will be almost entirely O&D. ORD-NRT is a big mix of O&D and traffic coming from MIA/Latin America (hence the flight originates in Miami).



a.
User currently offlineTriscl From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

MAH4546-

After reading the post, I think what LHR001 means to say is that SFO is much more GLAMOROUS than SJC, rather than profitable. Of course, AA probably cares a little more about the latter. But I too wonder: he knows this how??


User currently offlineWindshear From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 2325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3851 times:

Well yeah SAS had planned to go to SFO and LAX but those plans are put on hold...

I think DLH, BAW and AFR get all of the west coast/Pacific connections for us Scandinavians so I think SAS needs to be agressive in their offer planning for the routes to SFO/LAX...But there is need for those routes, as many visit California, LAS and the natural reserves and parks in the Utah, Arrizona and California areas!
Also more and more people are interested in going to Australia and Hawaii...Excellent transfer in LAX for those destinations!
That's why I think it's an important route for SAS!

But again the economical slowdown and world crisis, makes this kind of route expansions risky...

But again SAS has declared that the new CPH-SHA will open up in the near future...

So maybe SAS will reinvent the CPH-LAX route and start the CPH/ARN-SFO route?

Boaz...



"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
25 Lhr001 : International travelers want San Francisco not San Jose... the same for Narita vs. Haneda Miami vs. Ft. Lauderdale O Hare vs. Midway Heathrow vs. Gatw
26 Legacyins : The AA NRT flight has a lot of connecting passengers to LAS and SAN. It will be interesting to see when they start their LAX-NRT flight next year whet
27 MAH4546 : International travelers want San Francisco not San Jose... Not if they happen to live in the San Jose area or want to travel from Japan to San Jose. M
28 BA : International travelers want San Francisco not San Jose... the same for Narita vs. Haneda Miami vs. Ft. Lauderdale O Hare vs. Midway Heathrow vs. Gatw
29 Mikesairways : Watching this has been rather interesting. SJC is my home airport and in all the flying I've done, I've only HAD to fly out of SFO (SFO-HKG-SIN-NRT-SF
30 Gigneil : If AA had any balls, they'd keep things together in SJC. Its the vastly preferred airport in the region, especially for Asian business travellers as w
31 Lhr001 : The problem is AA is serving and trying with San Jose. United Airlines is serving and expanding with San Francisco. It is like comparing Heathrow (SFO
32 Irishpower : I just read an article that Orient Thai has applied for BKK-SFO and BKK-LAX and they want to start in 2004. I don't know where the technical stop will
33 Lhr001 : Irishpower, Thank you for the information. They are also going to be serving New York! This just goes to show that San Francisco is international and
34 MAH4546 : This just goes to show that San Francisco is international and San Jose is domestic. Kl777jfk, no, it does not. It shows nothing of that sort.
35 Macmac76 : Before SJC can ever compete with SFO, they need to renovate terminal C. That terminal is a huge embarrassment...still using airstairs? Come on, SJC is
36 Lhr001 : Home Sick for the Silicon Valley???
37 BN747 : JFK=SFO LGA=OAK EWR=SJC well it's more like... JFK=SFO EWR=OAK LGA=SJC geogrpahically, because SFO/SJC share the same peninsula as does JFK/LGA. EWR a
38 Post contains images Tolosy : superfly You forgot the LH 340 flying daily from Munich when going home from Sunnyvale to San Francisco, I knew if I was on time or late. If she had a
39 Copaair737 : SJC is really a pain in the ass to get to. Id fly out of SFO (and I have, numerous times) any day, if that wasnt a choice, OAK would be, because of th
40 Gigneil : If you work in San Jose, as most of the economic force in that region does, OAK and SFO are just not an option. SJC provides convenience. There is no
41 Copaair737 : Does anyone know the status of Orient Thai service to SFO? I heard about it starting soon, but nothing has happened, does anyone know what happened?
42 Irishpower : Does anyone know the status of Orient Thai service to SFO? I heard about it starting soon, but nothing has happened, does anyone know what happened? C
43 Johnboy : Has SJC gotten rid of that ridiculous traffic light/bottleneck at the entrance yet?
44 Copaair737 : LHR001- Where did you hear about TG coming to SFO? If it were to happen, would it be a 744 or a 345? If it were to stop intermediately, I would bet ei
45 Legacyins : TG already announced their desire to serve ORD with a new A340-500. I do not think SFO is on the radar screen.
46 Copaair737 : I think the top 3 bets for new service are AZ, VN, and GF.
47 AA623BDLSJU : Well duh, AA was going to drop SJC-TPE, SJC-CDG. The service was just so recent when 9/11 happened. Just like every other carrier that had expected ne
48 MAH4546 : Well duh, AA was going to drop SJC-TPE, SJC-CDG. The service was just so recent when 9/11 happened. Just like every other carrier that had expected ne
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