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ACA To Announce New Plan Nov 19th  
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

ACA to reveal low-fare carrier details Nov. 19
Dateline: Thursday November 06, 2003

Atlantic Coast Airlines is planning to unveil its new low-cost airline Nov. 19, company spokesperson Rick DeLisi told ATWOnline.

ACA officials are moving forward with the plan despite the ongoing takeover attempt by Mesa Air Group, which offered to buy the company in early Oct. ACA announced plans to establish itself as a new independent carrier in July following the breakdown of negotiations with United Airlines over the Regional's continued participation in the United Express feeder network.
The startup will be based at Washington Dulles, where ACA officials hope to build a powerful network able to compete with both Southwest Airlines, which operates out of BWI, and JetBlue, which flies out of Dulles.--Sandra Arnoult




43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Yea! I hope they do something that will distinguish them from the rest of the crop of LCC's. Hope they come to GSP!!!


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4593 times:

But will they be able to do it with RJs? Doesn't that go against the low cost way of doing business?

User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 909 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

The last I heard they were talking about ordering 737 sized aircraft to begin their LCC. I still don't see it being the right way to go for them. Will be interesting to see what they put forth.


A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineUPSfueler From United States of America, joined May 2003, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

I think this is funny, I worked for ACA after 9/11 after I got layed off from UA. I It was so bad I quit after 2 weeks on the ramp. You know thats bad when an aviation lover like my self would rather be un-employed then work at ORD. Im back with UA now and ACA could not run a fleet of RJs, how do they expect to do this with 737s and such?

User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4430 times:

My problem w/ ACA's plan has never been answered either by the plan that was posted here on A-net or by those that are all gun-ho for ACA. That is this:

ACA's operation is not as large as they say it is. UA owns the longterm eases on gate space and facilities in many of the cities ACA calls its own. In addition UA is the ground handler for many cities ACA flies into that also have mainline service. ACA is counting these cities as part of its route network.

Yes, they are routes ACA flies, but they gloss over the fact that in all these cities UA will kick them out of thier current facilities. they will have to set up operations in these cities. Hire employees, or contract out, rent gate space from the airport. In otherwords costs that they are not factoring into thier presentation. No one officially or part of their "fan base" here on A-net has acjknoleged that with out the answers to these questions thier plan is halfbaked.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4413 times:

But will they be able to do it with RJs? Doesn't that go against the low cost way of doing business?

No, it doesn't:


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ACA's LCC plan is a mix of narrowbodies and CRJs. The narrowbody a/c type has not been named yet, but I'm guessing they'll pick up some parked 737 Classics.


User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

I highly doubt you'll see ACAJet at ORD.

ACA does own their gates at IAD.. well, the lease anyway...

-n


User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4383 times:

Also don't forget:


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User currently offlineMidway2airtran From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 864 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

From what I hear ACA still owns leases from several outstations they service for United, in fact I've heard that United is having trouble trying to stay in those markets where gate space is limited and ACA has the leases.



"Life is short, but your delay in ATL is not."
User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

United has the leases in the cities that are served by both ACA and United. UA may also have the leases in the markets they pulled out of, such as MEM. But in a lot of others, such as GSP and CAE, where ACA initiated the service, ACA has the leases. The vast majority of airports are craving more low fare carriers, and have the room, such as CAE, CHS, PIT, JAX, etc., and it wouldn't be too hard to get favorable lease rates at most of these places. Yes, this is an expense, but not any more for ACA than the other LCCs. In the bigger airports that don't have room, subcontracting with other carriers may be the only option, but again it's not anything new, as carriers such as ATA and America West do it all the time. Does that answer your concern PHLCS?

If this is one of the only obstacles for ACA, then they don't have much to worry about. Their other issue is their performance, but it got a lot better in September. DOT stats put ACA at #3 in customer satisfaction in the complaints/100,000 category, ahead of United. On time arrivals went from 17th to 12th, not bad for one month's improvement. Sept. also included hurricane Isabel's 300 IAD cancellations.

As far as the RJ concern, the plan is to fly a fleet of 30 narrowbodies to be fed by a large fleet of rjs with a hub and spoke system. Again, this is nothing new in the industry.



FLYi
User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4231 times:

just remember that on day one of the new ACA, there wont be those 30 narrowbodies in place to supplement the existing RJs. ACA will have to start up and sustain itself with a couple at best, adding incrementally, and the period from when they start to when they finally get that 30th jet may be the critical make or break period as to if this will be successful.

User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2038 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
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Does anybody know if ACA has the gate lease in SBN? I'm assuming they don't becuase it's served both by Air Wisconsin and ACA. Thanks.

User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

SBN is an AWAC station.


On day one of ACA's operation, there will be 6 narrowbodies in use. The first year is understood to lose money, the second year break-even, and the third year, with at least 30 narrowbodies, is projected to be profitable.

The Airbus or Boeing announcement should come later this week, or next at the latest, followed shortly by the new name and brand.



FLYi
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7657 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

UALPHLCS,

Thats one of the key questions that we're all waiting to hear.
It would be nice if they told all of this on Nov. 19, we'll just have to wait and see.
I can't imagine that hasn't been addressed it whatever they're doing with this plan. Should be interesting to see what they'll do in this situation.


User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

PITRULES,
I hardly doubt that ANY city will kick UAL out of a gate if ACA owns leases to them. The city would want the competition and were not talking heavy gate space or slot space like a O'HARE.

If I could predict the future, ACA will be the next airline to go chap. 7

No US wont, it will be ACA.
For an airline that has lasted as long as it has on contracts, and haven't had to ever be accountable for their poor performance, they have a big set of nutz, to try and venture out on their own. You got to give then a pat on the back before they fall face first into their own s#$t.

UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3964 times:

I know that ACA xab get leases for gate space and hire or contract employees that's not the issue. the issue is that ACA is running around saying we serve X number of cities from IAD included inthat count are cities where ACA WILL have to ste up a new shop. In other words they are counting UA assets as thier own.

Can they fly to PHL, JFK, EWR, PIT, ROC and a host of other cities where UA is the ground handler. Yes. Will the set up be the simple name change like it would for ACA cities like CAE or CHO. NO. In addition, they do not factor in cities like CHS, BNA, MEM, ABE were UA was the carrier and still holds the long term leases for the gates. They will need to start from scratch in these cities as well.

Instead they paint a rosy picture of hundreds of cities they are currently flying to where all they need to do is peel off the UAX label and slap on ACA. When the truth is that they fly to these places but they will need to put in time and MONEY to convert them over.

to make a long story short they are lying to potential investors.


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3903 times:

UAL777

Did I say any airport will kick UAL out?
If ACA owns the lease, it belongs to ACA, and they can do whatever they want with it, whether its UAX or an independant airline. In this case, such as CHO and CAE, it will be up to United to get new leases if they want to continue UAX in those cities.

Some other facts:
1) ORD is not slot controlled.
2) Performance is factored into the profit margin clauses in the contracts.
3) ACA management's nuts are HUGE

I addressed the performance on this very thread, but instead of acknowledging and addressing those facts, you continue to pump sunshine up everyone's @ss because you hold a dislike for the company, and thats fine, it shows how educated you are on the topic. The fact is that with a $20 million profit in the 3rd, Atlantic Coast is one of the most stable airlines in business.
But you don't deal in facts.

Here's to your Ch. 7 dreams....




PHLCS

Yes, there are cities where they will need to start over. This is well known, and ACA is not going around telling investors that they will use United assets. In the ACA examples of CHO and CAE you give.....actually a logo change IS all ACA needs to do. It's up to United and mesa to get new space. In the other cities, well, go back and re-read reply #10 in the thread. I don't hear United and mesa talking about all the new leases they'll need. It goes both ways.

Lying to investors??? That's hilarious, Ornstein is the one with prior prison time under his belt for insider trading charges. And we both know United has an inside role in mesa's pathetic takeover bid.



Get the facts gentlemen.



FLYi
User currently offlineBeltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

ACA morphing into a LCC is going to be very interesting. They lack most of the assets that an LCC needs (name recognition, customer service, reservations centers) and they have assets that most LCCs do not need (RJs).

I hope that they can pull it off. My money says that they are playing chicken with United, and they will announce a new deal with United on the eve of having to do something else.


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3076 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3861 times:

Does anyone think that they'll continue servicing the same cities that currently have their service on behalf of UA? (I'm referring to my home airport of GSP in particular).


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3839 times:

Most ACA employees seem too enthused by the LCC route for there to be a UAL backtrack. Would be more demoralising than a Mess-a takeover.


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

PITRULES,
How is pumping sunshine up someone's ass going to help? I don't like ACA and they will fail, not because I said so but because they haven't proved they can survive without another carrier.

because I hold a dislike for the company has nothing to do with being educated, smarter people on this forum think they suck and wont survive, don't blame me for your lame ass response.

20million profit for 3Q? Nice, but they made 20million under UAX colors, now they thought of narrowbodies 737's or A318,19,20'S? I may not have all the facts but before you go off tooting your own horn because you may have sneaked a peak on the business plan or whatever YOU think you know, please read a few of these responses and see how excited everyone is for this little venture.

CHAP 7 dreams? Now your ignorance is shining, if your referring to UAL you have been wrong all along. So keep it closed pitfall.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3711 times:

Blah blah blah blah, once again straying off the topic to slam an airline you don't like and its supporters. Nice flame bait. As for as ch. 7, I'm referring to your prediction of ACA being liquidated - I have no ill will towards United or its employees. There is plenty of room for United and ACA to operate independantly. Unfortunately there are many United people who are bitter toward ACA for rejecting United. Time to get over it.



FLYi
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

PITrules read my post more carefully before you write I said ACA changing in CAE and CHO WILL be as easy as a logo change.
This here is my quote:
"Can they fly to PHL, JFK, EWR, PIT, ROC and a host of other cities where UA is the ground handler. Yes. Will the set up be the simple name change like it would for ACA cities like CAE or CHO. NO."

On the other hand UA doesn't need the revenue from CHO like ACA will need the revenue from PHL. There is no comparison.

ACA has to begin all over again in the largest markets it says it already serves. JFK, PHL, ROC, ABE, EWR, COS, PIT, BUF and lots of others. In addition it will have to surrender the leases back to UA on a number of smaller cities that UA holds the long term leases in. CHS, ABE, BNA, MEM for example. How much more expensive is it going to be for ACA to set up shop in these stations where they lose thier presence, than it will be for UA to resetup in places that where only ever served by ACA. The money UA would lose if they pulled out of those ACA stations completely would still be less than the money ACA will have to shell out to restart thier ops in those big cities. Net gain to UA.

UA through Mesa will be able to restart in many of those cities ACA serves and I am sure UA would just codeshare with US on many of the others. So the financial loss to UA remains minimal.

So tell me how is this a good thing for ACA again? The more this is analyized the more it looks like ACA has just bitten off more than it can chew and is unwilling to admit it.

I eagarly await an answer from the ACA propaganda minister, PITrules.


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3211 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3623 times:

ACA propaganda minister, I like that!

Anyway, if UA wanted to pull out of CHO, CAE, and a handfull of others, that would be swell. But those aren't exactly low yield markets, as they do not have low cost carriers, and I don't think UAL would give up on them as quikly as you would. As far as the other airports, I stand by my initial response in this thread - it's a cost, but the same cost every other airline faces.

As far as bighting off too much, and this whole thing being a failure, we'll disagree until it fails or is a success. Only time will tell.



FLYi
25 UAL777CONTRAIL : pitfall, You cant have a sane conversation with anyone! You may want to look in the mirror minister of ignorant ACA statements. stop posting on this t
26 Pitrules : Telling a member of this forum to stop posting on a topic is the zenith of ignorance.
27 UALPHLCS : UA dosn't nee to pull out of those cities Pit. They could simply let ACA change its name in them. UA would still codeshare with US until Mesa of anoth
28 Midex461 : Actually, YV and UA just recently signed a memorandum of understanding that basically says YV would become the new UAX carrier @ IAD (and later I'm su
29 Flashmeister : The odds of ACA's plan coming to fruition are slight at best. IMHO, ACA shareholders, when offered either a shaky LCC plan or cash for their shares, w
30 A330323X : The odds of ACA's plan coming to fruition are slight at best. IMHO, ACA shareholders, when offered either a shaky LCC plan or cash for their shares, w
31 WGW2707 : My own opinions on the topic are as follows: I am intrigued by the prospects of a low cost carrier using regional jets. I wouldn't mind ACA setting up
32 SunValley : They announce their plans today at 2p (EST). Also, as was stated in an earlier post, They have committed to some A319 & A320 aircraft in a contract wi
33 Voodoo : I'm still not sure what the big attraction to Mesa would be for ACA invstors if they get Mesa shares and not cash. ACA employees don't seem at all int
34 A330323X : I'm still not sure what the big attraction to Mesa would be for ACA invstors if they get Mesa shares and not cash. ACA employees don't seem at all int
35 JGPH1A : Any idea what RES system ACA will use for their new airline ? I am assuming that UA won't want them hosted in Apollo...
36 UALPHLCS : Apollo is a seperate company spun off in the early or mid 90s. Frankly, I had thought that the LCC idea of ACA's was posturing. Now that they have gon
37 Caetravlr : So, here is my question... and we may not know this until later. If Mesa were to succeed in taking over ACA, after ACA has signed this order for these
38 Kohflot : UALPHLCS: Are you saying that after all the ranting you've done about ACA, you own stock in the company???
39 Voodoo : Mesa stock relating to being a UAEX carrier stinks of dead whale though. Once the poison pills are swallowed, it could easily go down by much much mor
40 JGPH1A : I know Apollo is not owned by UA any more (its part of Galileo International). But right now ACA has no flights under its own code, they all fly with
41 UA744Flagship : JGPH1A-- I'm guessing it will be SABRE because SABRE is the firm that did all of ACA's LCC traffic forecasts, which btw are more optimistic than Unite
42 Post contains images JGPH1A : thanks UA744Flagship
43 IFly4UAL : ACA's operation is not as large as they say it is. UA owns the longterm eases on gate space and facilities in many of the cities ACA calls its own. In
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