Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BA/USAir Alliance In Early 1990s  
User currently offlinePanAmerican From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 384 posts, RR: 5
Posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3255 times:

On a July 1993 OAG timetable I found an advertisement on the front page quoting the following:
"Two airlines. One vision. The Global Alliance of USAir and British Airways takes off."

This was obviously before BA thought of hooking up with AA. Does anybody remember why that BA/US partnership never came to work out?
I'd be interested, I don't remember this at all.


 Smile/happy/getting dizzyPA


Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Not quite sure why it didn't work out, I think it had something to do with US Air's reputation at the time - and with BA not wanting to be associated with them... I do remember that they had a bit of a fight when it came to the financial un-tangling at the end of the alliance...

Didn't they have a 767 painted in US Air colors on one side and BA colors on the other?

And, up to today, I still have some miles flown on BA on my Dividend Miles account...  Big grin



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlinePanAmerican From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 384 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

You're right, Leskova. I just searched for that plane and found out that there were more than one in both US/BA colors:

N652US:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Morley



N654US:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald



N655US:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Philippe Noret
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



So their alliance must have been more advanced then I thought...
...painting the planes in the partner colors, accepting FF miles from the partner and code sharing is a pretty extensive agreement in my opinion.
Well, anyone else with more information on this?

 Smile/happy/getting dizzyPA



Pan Am - The World's Most Experienced Airline.
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

US sued BA to break-up the relationship... it wasn't BA who wanted out (first, at least.)

Some say BA's true interest in US was merely purchasing them to get their foot into the US market... similar to KL's initial interest in NW (and yes, there are government-imposed restrictions on this, which is why BA didn't take as large of a stake in US as they wanted to).

[Edited 2003-11-06 22:02:59]

User currently offlineUSflt1778 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 268 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3170 times:

The 3 aircraft were painted *entirely* in BA colours and operated under a wet-lease agreement on the following services: BWI-LGW, CLT-LGW and PIT-LGW. Crew were all USAir, with the cockpit crew in US uniforms but the cabin crew in BA uniforms. These personnel bid these flights exclusively and attended training with BA in UK to learn BA's service, procedures, etc. Ground handling was also performed by USAir in those 3 stations, again with dedicated staff wearing BA uniforms. Once onboard, the only mention of USAir was a small placard in the forward galley stating "This aircraft is owned and operated by USAir."

I recall the inaugural flight into LGW was a bit confusing, as BA only operated 767-300's and the USAir 767-200 had some troubles at the parking stand with the jetbridge meeting up properly. This was also the time of the reconfiguration of all US' 767's into the current biz configuration of 2-2-2. Previously US had a 2-1-2 arrangement (with less pitch) but they modified the entire fleet to offer a consistent "club world" type product. In fact, for a long time the in-seat video control on US was labelled "colour" instead of "color" (the seats having come from BA's stock?!?).

The reasoning for the codeshares at the time was BA's lack of aircraft and the economy of allowing US to fly those routes on their behalf, with significant thru traffic to/from USAir's domestic network.

From time to time those aircraft would cycle back into US mainline flying for a day or two after maintenance, and I remember flying non-rev on a PHL-MCO flight in full BA colours. I flew down and came right back; just wanted to say that I'd flown on it.

I can't fully recall the reason for the break up in the end, other than each side didn't really gain what they were hoping for from the relationship. As stated by IndustrialPate, BA was looking for an "in" to the US market, and USAir needed the cash. I seem to recall the final straw being US' failure to meet certain financial goals and BA holding back a payment of $400 million (but don't quote me on that one).


User currently offlinePotomac From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3154 times:

didnt this agreement drive the switch from "us air" to "us airways"?

User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3136 times:

USflt778 has pretty much summed up the story.
The former Piedmont route of CLT-LGW, and PIT-LGW saw US Airways 762's in BA colours. In fact when the alliance broke, BA decided to operate its own CLT-LGW service in competition with US!
CLT-LGW surprised everyone with how well it developed in the late '80's with Piedmont and into the early '90's with US Airways. I suppose BA wanted a part of that.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

BA used to have daily 747 service to PIT. I used to go out an see the plane with my dad when I was litte, don't rememer if it was LGW or LHR, I think it was a 200 series 747 though. This flight was laster downgraded to daily 767 service., until it ceased to exist.

Tim


User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

As I recall, the alliance broke up because American expressed interest in hooking up with BA, and BA saw the value of a marriage with the top dog (or second dog at the time) of the U.S. market. USAir was pissed because it wanted to have an exclusive relationship with BA.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4567 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3070 times:

It was a mix of BA/AA, but also US getting the short end of the stick in the deal. BA was making several hundreds of millions of dollars, when US only made between $50-100 million...give or take.

At the peak, BA owned ~25% of USAir and had option to purchase up to 49%.


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

What I remember was that BA had a habit of trying to help micro-manage the little things at US Airways. US Airways got tired of being told how to do things "better" and decided to end the relationship. This was decided mutually because BA thought that AA would provide a more powerful ally across the Atlantic anyways. I couldn't remember why US was pursued in the first place, I just remember hearing about the breakup.

User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

A good friend of mine is a retired US AIRWAYS 767 Captain, and he told me that on the BA/US shared flights, the US AIRWAYS pilots actually used the "Speedbird" calls sign while operating the USAir 767's painted with BA colors........or colours.

User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

If I'm not mistaken, didn't AA and US have a mileage agreement for a while?


Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineRthrbeflying86 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 243 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2949 times:

Yes, there was an AA/US relationship for a short while, and they let you combine miles from each program to redeem an award. All you needed was at least 1000 miles from the operating airline (or 1000 from both for interline travel) and the difference from the other.

There were even rumors of a takeover, (not unlike US/UA negotiations) but they obviously fell through. I'm pretty sure this all happened before the AA/TW takeover.



I'd rather be flying.
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 625 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

I remember flying in the United/British Airways alliance, which preceeded the USAir alliance. This was in the late 80's.

The USAir-BA alliance had some interesting innovations. The unusual wet leased flights were only part of the deal. USAir Express operated the "Concorde Connection:" a Dash-8 "champagne flight" linking Washington/DCA with JFK for Concorde passengers. This was VERY short-lived.

USAir suffered numerous downfalls in the 90's. They had a ridiculous number of aircraft types, the highest costs in the US market, and two noteworthy crashes. As its financial status plummeted, BA began to seek a new partner in the United States.

Although USAir maintained a marketing agreement with Deutsche BA, they discontinued their relationship with BA itself.

USAir's name change and switch to a predominately Airbus fleet took place after the BA relationship ended. This all took place when Stephen Wolf came from United to USAir.


User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

This alliance was going well before 1990, because my family flew JFK-MAN and LHR-JFK on British Airways using USAir frequent flyer miles in 1988. We purchased the tickets in 1987.

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineJeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1336 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

RockyRacoon,

I do believe the British Airways flight was from LHR. I remember in the late 80's flying from LHR to IAD on a BA 747. The crew announced that the flight was continuing on to Pittsburgh.

God bless through Jesus,

Jeff



God bless through Jesus, Jeff
User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 962 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2846 times:

ok, thanks for the info jeff

Tim


User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2333 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2808 times:

I remember seeing a British Airways 762 in Miami, in 1993. I knew it was
part of the BA/US alliance, Which was really cool. I also remember US operating several routes into JFK, to connect onto BA flights there.



"The low fares airline."
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing Had The A380 In Early 1990s posted Tue Nov 18 2003 12:17:28 by TR
Egyptair In Early Talks To Join Star Alliance posted Sat Mar 18 2006 02:56:12 by Horus
BA In Canada In Early '70s posted Thu Jun 30 2005 04:45:26 by Yulguy
BA Flight Info - Late 1980s, Early 1990s posted Thu Apr 14 2005 03:20:40 by Aussie_
BA's Plans For AA's Alliance In Setback-Report posted Mon Dec 3 2001 04:29:08 by United Airline
Seat Pitch In Y Early 747 -100, 1970s posted Sat Dec 2 2006 23:23:39 by 767er
BA Ups Stake In Iberia posted Wed Nov 15 2006 19:30:01 by BAStew
Lack Of Star Alliance In Oz Domestic Routes! posted Mon Nov 6 2006 06:36:01 by ThaiA345
BA Online Check-in posted Sat Sep 23 2006 15:12:35 by Ratypus
BA A321 Involved In Search & Rescue Over North Sea posted Tue Sep 19 2006 15:37:56 by Fbgdavidson