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Better For Trans-atlantics...A-319 Or B-757?  
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

I wonder this because the A-319 has range to most cities in Western Europe, and yet carries slightly more than half as many passengers as the Boeing 757...could CO have done better by sending the A-319's all across the Atlantic to Western European cities, and serve places like TXL, NCE, Bordeaux, etc., with the A-319?


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14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

CO's International 757s are configured with a business First front cabin, which means their 757s carry about 170 seats.

It's hard to make money with anything less than that unless you go all Business class (no coach seats) ala LH/Privatair, and why would they fly A319s anyway?

The operate Boeings.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

PrivatAir operates A319LR's now as well on some of their transatlantic business routes...

Greg



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2992 times:

Privateair also operates Boeing Business Jets (737NGs).

The EWR-DUS flight is a A319, the EWR-MUC flight is a BBJ.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

The reason I ask this question, BTW, is that I'm suggesting that US Airways use their A-319's internationally, and go after just about every European city that has a medium-to-large market that can be reached from US' PHL gateway...make the Western European routes, in addition to the Eastern United States, US' true bread and butter...I truly believe that this may be the only way for US Airways to survive...


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User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

I'd much rather fly a 757 myself, and I think the 752 fits the slots CO needs to BHX, MAN, etc. perfectly.


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User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

I should elaborate a bit. the -319 wouldnt work for CO because of their fleet. They, like many airlines are moving towards and all-one type manufacturer fleet(all Boeing in their case). The -319 would have been the odd ball out because they didnt take any -340s. Interesting idea you have though!


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User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

US Airways could keep their 752s around for a while and use them for trans atlantic ops, and keep their 319s in domestic ops. The 752 could be converted to international only, leaving all airbus for domestic (once the 737s are phased out). What do you guys think?

Tim


User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1710 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Are US Airs 757s configured for ETOPS? If they aren't, could be an expensive endeavor.

Cheers


User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 974 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

Thats a good point shenzhen. They might be able to get their foot in the door on some thin european routes that aren't served by the other majors. Or even keep international service alive at PIT. Do you think it could be worth the expenses? Maybe to much too gamble right for USAir.

Tim


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2568 times:

The US 757's are currently being reconverted to have 8 F seats (previously 24) and more coach seats (not sure what the reconfig will add coach wise but there will be some more coach seats) to serve the Northeast-Florida routes primarily...more capacity is needed on most of these routes...

I think US using A319'S for transatlantics is ludicrous...first off I dont believe they are ETOPS certified which is a major problem in itself...furthermore, with US joining STAR, they can just feed their traffic through the STAR alliance to said destinations that SHUpirate had in mind, primarily through FRA with LH and MAN with BMI...no need for US's own service...

Furthermore the premium seats on the A319 are just standard F seats which would not fly (no pun intended) with their premium customers...why take that when you can take a true premium product such as Envoy Class on the A330/767 across the pond and then make a short connecting flight?

US has 10 (?) A330-200's on order, and these will replace the 767-200's on transatlantics and possibly add a few routes in the longterm...
All in all, a very ludicrous idea...

Greg

Edit: I don't think US's 757's are ETOPS certified

[Edited 2003-11-07 07:05:48]


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User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2435 times:

I'll argue your comments in order...about the ETOPS, I can't comment on that, as in that sense, I am truly unknowledgeable...about feeding the traffic through the Star Alliance, you seem to conveniently forget that airlines only make money on flights within their own metal, whether or not the flight was booked on another carrier...as far as the standard F seats on the A-319, rip a row of them out and you have your Envoy Class...and it's not ludicrous...if CO can do what they do with 757's, US could certainly match and exceed CO's efforts with an A-319 with 35% fewer seats flying those routes from PHL...


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User currently offlineWarszawa From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 727 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2244 times:

While an A319 might hold less passengers than a 757, who says they cant operate at a higher frequency  Big grin

ETOPS is or at least can definitely be certified for the A319. How do I know this?

One airline already operates an A319 transatlantic. Lufthansa flies EDDL-KORD daily, and the same way back, all with an A319. Its DLH436, if your curious. And for the KORD-EDDL route, its DLH437.

I think USAir would do great operating 752's across the Atlantic, yet alone probably A319's too ( To small destinations ). Continental sets quite a good example of this being possible 757-wise.



Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

Warszawa,

KORD-EDDL route is operated by Privatair for Lufthansa... And the aircraft is A319LR not basic A319. I'm not sure of ETOPS, but at least -LR series must have it, I think.

The -LR version has more than double longer range than normal A319 so they are totally different aircrafts.

FinnWings


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

"if CO can do what they do with 757's, US could certainly match and exceed CO's efforts with an A-319 with 35% fewer seats flying those routes from PHL"

EWR has a much larger International market than PHL, especially to Europe.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
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