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DL 738s Going To AS?  
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13610 posts, RR: 61
Posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3122 times:
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Follow me on this...

AS and DL are rumored to be entering negotiations for a codeshare agreement.

AS is rumored to be eyeing the SLC market, and one thread here even has AS leasing two gates there.

DL has pared back their SLC-SEA frequency this winter and downgauged the equipment as well.

Inside sources at AS have said two new destinations will be announced this spring.

AS is in the process of renegotiating their pilots' contract with ALPA for wage concessions and work rule changes necessary to expand the airline.

AS is committed to their "Alaska 2010" plan which will have them operating as many as 75 more aircraft by 2010.

AS has expressed interest in the 738 for future expansion.

And most importantly...

DL recently announced the sale of 11 yet-to-be-delivered 738s to an unnamed party.


So, with all these things coming into alignment, is it likely that AS is that unnamed party that DL has sold 11 of their 738 deliveries to?


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

I would love it if this was the case. If it's true or not, I don't know. But if AS gets into the SEA-SLC market at a reasonable price, I will fly with them exclusively. DL can kiss my business goodbye. Especially on some comfy 738's!  Big grin

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13610 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2975 times:
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Especially on some comfy 738's!

Odds are the 738s would be used on longhaul routes that demand more than a 73G, but can't quite justify a 739. If AS starts SEA-SLC service, expect to see 734s or M80s operating that route.

They're still plenty comfy, though!  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBCAInfoSys From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2966 times:

This is definitely true. And given that I fly that route about a dozen times a year, I would love to give my business to someone else besides DL. They've gotten a little to big and complacent for me. And this is a shocker given that I've lived in Seattle since 1987, but I've never flown AS! I've heard some very good things about them though. I'm going to PVR for my brother's wedding next May, so I'll be flying AS then prolly. But getting back to what I was saying, if I could take my business from DL and give it to AS, I'd do it in a heartbeat!  Big grin

User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

I saw part of this on another thread- it's very possible that AS could be a viable customer for DL's 738's OR...DL might possibly be selling the 738's back to Boeing only to turn around and lease them. None of the carriers want to let loose of cash these day(wonder why?) and even thought DL's in better shape than the other two biggies(and not by much), they are being very conservative for now. They're pulling more 75's from mainline for Song, and continuing to downsize in other markets, including SLC. The 738 is almost perfect for picking up the slack. This is JUST a theory. If AS could work out a deal with Boeing and DL-SWEET! I'd love to see AS in ATL. Not likely- but it could happen. With the wisperings of codesharing going on, anything including buying or swapping a/c is possible. Just a theory with a little interjection.
Paul@ATL



Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineTu154m From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 683 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

The 11 738s that DL are not taking are going to an unamed 3rd party overseas. From what I understand it is an unscheduled operator in Europe.
S



CEOs should swim with cement flippers!
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13610 posts, RR: 61
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2703 times:
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The 11 738s that DL are not taking are going to an unamed 3rd party overseas.

Are you certain of that? It's not that I don't trust you; it's just that no such mention has ever been made before. It has always been this mysterious "unnamed third party"...very cloak-and-dagger if you ask me.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offline737-990 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 365 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2673 times:

EA CO AS, I had the same thought's that Alaska might be the "unnamed third party". We only have 3 outstanding orders on the books (that we know of), and we're supposed to have 50-75 more aircraft by 2010! And that's net after the MD80 is retired. It's only a question of when, not if Alaska gets the 738s. They're the only logical replacement for the MD80 and 734. Maybe management is holding out until negotiations are rapped up with the pilots to make any announcements. Remember also that DL sold 10 undelivered slots as well, so it's really 21 738's.
The only thing that might prevent this from being true is cash. Such a purchase would wipe out our cash on hand (about $700million), unless Alaska looks to finance this purchase with more debt.



Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

I believe the 11 738s are going to Lombard Aviation, a leasing company. What airline or airlines will these 11 planes end up to be is anyone's guess. AS is not a bad guess, because they have plans to order new planes. But I think AS would have dealt directly with DL if they were interested in DL's slots.

User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2533 times:

I believe I also read that Lombard is where the aircraft are going. Didn't
Beauvais say he would be getting 11 737's to start his new PIT based LCC?




User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2523 times:

Err.... Um.... Project Roam....

User currently offlineVIRGINIA From Netherlands, joined Sep 2003, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2514 times:

Dynkrisolo, Sunvalley.

Maybe they are going to Air Europa the Spanish carrier who recently announced to take 4 B737-8 and 11 for option?

Who knows we'll see, maybe this is the 3rd unnamed party overseas.

greetings Virginia


User currently offlineKillerbabe From Netherlands, joined Aug 2003, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

another great step in the making of Skyteam the airline-organization of the world. DL is already a member and AS had good relations with both KL and NW and both airlines are planning to join Skyteam

User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2390 times:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/031017/80/ebg2e.html

Here's where they went. I would bet DL probably put a clause in the contract that says the planes can't go to an immediate competitor (ie AS).

DL has not sold the other 10 slots yet. They do have the option to do so.


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2311 times:

''Yahoo! UK & Ireland: Document not found.''

FlyPNS1 - Enlighten us please ....



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4505 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2275 times:

LN-MOW, I was able to access the article. Here you go:


Delta sold 737 jet slots to Lombard-sources
By Kathy Fieweger

CHICAGO, Oct 17 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc (NYAS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE: DAL - news) . has sold 11 Boeing (NYAS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE: BA - news) 737-800s scheduled for delivery in 2005 to Lombard Aviation Capital, an aircraft finance unit of Royal Bank of Scotland (LAS Air Limited (Kenya)">SE: RBS.L - news) , according to sources familiar with the matter.

Delta, in its third-quarter earnings release earlier this week, said it had agreed to sell the 11 737-800s to an unnamed third party, reducing its capital spending by about $500 million through 2005, while incurring a fourth-quarter charge of $26 million.

The deal also included an option for 10 additional aircraft scheduled for delivery in 2006 and 2007.

Atlanta-based Delta, the No. 3 U.S. airline, also announced it would defer until 2008 delivery of eight more 737-800 aircraft originally slated for 2005, but said it would still take delivery of two 777-200s in 2005 as scheduled.

Selling aircraft delivery positions outright is not typical, the sources said. Airlines generally arrange sale/leaseback transactions or delay taking deliveries.

"What that tells you is that Delta made some money off of this," said one source who asked not to be identified.

A spokeswoman for Delta declined to comment. Officials of Lombard Aviation could not immediately be reached to comment.

Boeing declined to comment on the specifics of the transaction.

"We are going to be selling these airplanes to Delta and what Delta does with them after that is between them and their third party," said Boeing spokesman Nicolaas Meijer.

DEMAND FOR NEWER 737S HOLDING UP

While demand for many older, classic jet models including some of the 737 family is down sharply since the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, the newer 737-800 series has held up relatively well.

Executives of Lombard Aviation, which entered the aircraft lessor ranks shortly after the U.S. airline industry staggered into an unprecedented financial crisis in late 2001, have stated they believe the jet leasing market has reached a low point.

The lessor is said to be aggressively adding to its aircraft portfolio in anticipation of a market rebound.

When airline traffic fully recovers and airlines begin to post consistently profitable results, desirable aircraft will become more scarce and lease rates will rise.

Delta reported its third-quarter loss was halved to $164 million, or $1.36 per share, compared with a net loss of $326 million, or $2.67, a year earlier. But it also forecast a loss of between $225 million and $275 million in the fourth quarter. (Additional reporting by Chris Stetkiewicz in Seattle)

----------------------------


Sounds to me like, if AS is going to get any of DL's 738s, they'll have to go through Lombard to get it. If not, then the new AS planes will come from someone else, perhaps even direct from Boeing.


I have never flown AS either, flying them to Seattle would be an interesting change from DL though I do like DL. They were my preferred carrier for years till I discovered Southwest Airlines. I'm truly going to miss the 763s to Seattle though. I never flew on one, but in the mid-90s Delta had an L-1011 on that route and I did get to fly that as my first ever airline flight, which was fantastic, though I barely remember it.

A couple of quick questions:

How old are Alaska's MD-80s? They can't be too terribly old, so why the desire to start phasing them out? If they wanted more planes couldn't they pick up some secondhand, low-cycle MD-80s? Production of them ended only three years ago, they shouldn't be hard to find.

How is Alaska's onboard service? I've heard a few things about them, but not about their service. What I heard was what a friend of mine who works with them through a travel agency thinks of them, and she had some choice words for that carrier. Apparently, Alaska's reservations staff don't treat travel agents very well at all, in fact are quite rude, and my friend isn't one to lie either. I wonder if Alaska's onboard staff are friendlier?


[Edited 2003-11-08 18:12:26]

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13610 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2131 times:
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Apparently, Alaska's reservations staff don't treat travel agents very well at all, in fact are quite rude, and my friend isn't one to lie either.

While everyone (including your friend) is entitled to their opinion, I can tell you with absolute certainty that Alaska's reservations staff is much friendlier to professional travel agents and easier to work with than all other U.S. network carriers.

The one complaint agencies routinely have with Alaska is that they require agencies to do their own work, so when a client asks the agency to change their reservation, AS expects the agency to make the change in their GDS and process the ticket reissue themselves. Most agencies charge their clients a service fee (on top of the airline's change fee) for this but make the carrier do all the work. AS won't do that, so some agencies get a bit miffed.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
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