Cdgdtw From United States of America, joined May 2003, 201 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12936 times:
Having a right to do something doesn't give you the right to do it. Yes, those willing to PAY for F/C are entitled but put yourself in the position of the passenger who has paid thousands to have the benefits of a premium cabin. You can't work or sleep because the children constantly scream and run around, slamming the lav door and playing with the seats.
There should be a policy but airlines are afraid to piss off those willing to pay higher fares. Shame.
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4748 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12912 times:
This is a dilemma for the airlines. As some have noted, if the kid is paid for, then how can you really say no. But you run the risk of alientating regular full fare passengers. The business man that pays 8 grand for his ticket, wants a nce nights sleep, in order to be rested for his meeting, and if a kid is screaming, running laps aroundthe cabin and throwing a tantrum (yes I have seen all of the above), then you have 43 pissed off passengers and a handful of pissed off staff, all so that a kid can ride first class.
Jplenny From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12870 times:
and if a kid is screaming, running laps aroundthe cabin and throwing a tantrum (yes I have seen all of the above), then you have 43 pissed off passengers and a handful of pissed off staff, all so that a kid can ride first class
What about adults that do this behavior in First Class. (Yes, I've seen that too)
USAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12860 times:
So the kid is supposed to sit in coach all alone next to complete strangers if his parents are in first??? If I had kids I wouldnt let them out of my sight like that on a plane filled with people whom I dont personally...
Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
Jtamu97 From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 666 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12770 times:
I have to agree..I am not anti kids either, but on long haul flights I always pay for business or first for the peace and also comfort. On a flight last year from Atlanta to South Africa, there was a crying baby a few rows back of me and I was in Business Class. It about drove me nuts, but I just kept thinking, well the parents paid a premium, but still it was annoying. Anyways, I think airlines should adopt the exit row rule for first and business class pertaining to kids.
Solnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 910 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12725 times:
Talking about "kids in 1st class":
Is it true that the group Oasis
are banned from Cathay, due
to pissed (drunk) as rats,
harassing other pax, throwing up
This happened about 2 years ago.
StarFlyer From Germany, joined Sep 2002, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12705 times:
Even in the back there's people that pay a lot of money for their trip and thus, following some peoples arguments, kids should be banned altogether!
Personally I am no fan of crying babies but sometimes they need to travel with their parents. So no matter what class they travel in, they should be allowed to. After all, we were all crying little babies once upon a time.
FlyingBanker From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12682 times:
I think it is fine for children to be in First Class. I know some adults that I have sat next to in First Class that behaved worse then any 4 or 5 year old. Also I seem to remember it wasn't a child who used defecated on a service cart in UA First Class a few years ago. I think the same rules apply for children, as say taking them to a nice restaurant as long as the parent is in control and conscious of surrounding passengers....or patrons for this analogy, I am all for it.
Ar385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7479 posts, RR: 41
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12640 times:
As a kid, I flew in First Class all the time, in many airlines, AF, BA, SAS, AR I never knew coach until I had to fend for myself (Quite a shock really). I tasted caviar when I was 4. I remember I spat it out. On another occassion, on an accident, I dropped a whole glass of scotch in a fellow passengers' shirt. My father gave him the money for it, although the gentleman was quite civilized and refused the money until he was really insisted to take it.
Once thing you need to know. Usually, even though your parents are in First with you, a steward will always keep an eye on you. Second, the things I saw adults do in those "sleeperettes" would make today's adult movies to shame. That's when the steward would come get me, usually. On a 747 we would go up and play cards in the galley
Now, next to you all who want kids treted inhumanely or taken their basic human rights away, why don't lock them in the toilet? They'll scream sure but you won't hear them.
I can't believe the things people would consider for a lousy 8,000 USD
Andersjt From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12544 times:
For me, you just hope that children are well behaved in any public situation, and you hope that parents have the sense to know when it is not the right time to take kids on the airplane. From experience as a flight attendant and passenger, kids are inevitable. Whether it is coach or first class, you hope against hope that the parent will parent.
This is a true story -
This was about 3 years ago, United First on a 3-cabin 777 from Denver to Los Angeles. A mother and her 8 or 9 year old daughter took their seats. I was guessing that they were not non-rev as they did board early.
We take off, and then we reach cruising altitude. With this flight, they were short a flight attendant, so instead of 2 in United First, only the Purser was working the front cabin. As soon as the "Fasten Seat Belts" sign is turned off, the little girl is up and in the galley talking to the purser. I have to give this Purser kudos as she was very patient.
Anyway, the Purser takes our dinner orders, and then brings out the drinks and snack mix. This was back when they closed the curtains on the galley, and while having our before dinner drinks, you could hear the Purser preparing the dinner trays. The little girl is in the galley the whole time. The Purser brings out the napkins to cover the tray tables to let us know she is bringing dinner out. A few minutes later, you find the little girl carrying out the dinner trays with the Purser pointing out which seat she is to take the tray to. I was a little taken by this, and I will have to say this young flight attendant in training didn't drop a tray, but isn't there some kind of rule violation here, particularly with alcohol being served in the cabin? The passengers in the cabin politely thanked the little girl, but you could telll they were a little miffed, as I was.
Just for laughs - if children are to be allowed in first class, should they be put to work so that they behave???
Oh how I long for the day when the skies were truly Friendly!
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1665 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12477 times:
I think the question pertains to upgrades and the answer is NO!
If the pax wants to pay for it, well...it would be hard for the airline to turn down that kind of money.
However...If I could afford first class and had a baby to care for, I would definitely consider first class from a safety point of view. If an emergency evacuate took place, I would rather be in the less crowded section of the cabin where I can move around and get out quickly. Where you and your kid might have a fighting chance compared to a crowded coach section.
Airbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12446 times:
Depends what age you define as "kids".
Those babies that tends to cry a lot?
Or those 4 or 5 year olds that would be much more obedient?
Or those young passengers travelling alone? (up to age of 12)
or those unattended minors (up to the age of 15)?
I think it is sure fine for YPTAs and UMs to fly in first class. At MH, we tend to "upgrade" YPTAs and UMs to business or first before descent so then they could deplane easier and then be led from there.
I had always been flying Business alone as a YPTA years ago and at times when flying back from LAX I was upgraded to First to be on the main deck so the F/As could look after.
Some people (not anyone here) tend to dislike kids flying in First Class or Business as they think those are spoiled "kids" and they themselves are stuck in cattle class. I mean if their parents can afford it, why not?
TxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 39
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12405 times:
First of all, barring kids from a F cabin would be exposing a company to risks a lot more serious than aggravating their double-platinum zircon encrusted medallion members.
Airlines are "common carriers." That's why their unions are subject to "the railway labor act." That's why they are issued (or used to be, anyway) a "certificate of public convenience and necessity."
An airline can not discriminate against a child whose parents want to fork over the cash or the miles-required-to-upgrade. That's it, plain and simple.
Nobody wants to hear a child scream for the entire duration of a flight, and that goes for people sitting in either cabin. One of the earlier posters hit the nail on the head, though....crying children are a fact of life. Deal with it.
As far as the young lady assisting the FA...there may now be rules progibitng this, but 15 -25 years ago it was common practice for WN FAs to get a couple of kids to help them pass out packages of peanuts/almonds (yes, they served smoked almonds at one time) before the beverage service. This was usually accomplished with a great deal of fanfare and everyone seemed better for it.....the passengers were relieved that the kids on the plane were constructively engaged instead of hollering and/or kicking the seat in front of them, the kids passing out nuts felt real big to be helping the FAs, and the FAs were pouring and mixing drinks in the galley instead of passing out nuts. Win-win situation. haven;t seen it in quite some time, though, so there may be a liability issue or somebody complained.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 7452 posts, RR: 77
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12356 times:
I paid for my P class seat, I expect for the cabin to be quiet.
The kids parent bought it also, so they expect the kids to be there.
However, this is unlike the seat recline debate... 1 crying kid can spoil more than one pax's day. A family of 4 with 4 fully paid P class tickets... ruining the travel experience of another 8 P Class pax... You gain the repeat business of 2 parents (those kids won't fly P class on their own money for a while) but loose 8... -6...
Responsible parents with responsible children are by all means welcomed... But what are the chances of a "Why can't you just shut up" set of parents with a bunch of "I hate everything so I cry and nothing can stop me" kids make it to the First Class? Not very often... However, there should be a guideline on dealing with those situation...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
NWAA330 From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 215 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12268 times:
From the ages of 5-15 I lived in Asia (Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo) due to my fathers job though I am originally from Detroit. My family (including my sister who is three years younger) often went on vacations and we usually took 20 flights a year to various destinations within Asia and back to the U.S. All but a handful of these flights were flown in either Business or First class (paid, upgraded, and FF mile tickets) on many different airlines and I can tell you that neither my sister or I ever presented a problem to other passengers or to the crew. On many flights domestically I have been upgraded as a teenager due to my elite status. Children flying in premium cabins are rare but, esp. on long haul flights are not out of the question. For the most part they are well be behaved from what I have seen, and though you may have one now and then that make a flight less bearable that's just tough, they paid just as much to be there as you did. On the subject of upgrading that obviously lies with the discretion of the airline employee. I don't think UM's should be upgraded necessarily but if you have a Gold elite child and a silver elite adult it only seems right that the child be the one upgraded. Some of you may say that you deserve that First Class seat more than they do. But now how about the little old lady seated in economy who, though more deserving, isn't going to get your seat. There cannot be a double standard. They should be treated like all other passengers, looked at merely by their type of ticket and loyalty to the airline.
Tan Flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1977 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12233 times:
As for babies, TxAg Kuwait hit squarly..we were all babies once and everyone of cried on planes, trains or cars. So deal with it.
Now as for main/business/first class cabins.. as many of you I have seen it all. UM's not happy they are going to moms/dads/grandma's house. Plenty of parents that were totally oblivious to their childs behavior in any cabin have been on many flights also.
Now, If I can brag a bit.... a few years back when my son was 5 or 6 the 3 of us (myself, wife,son) were bumped up to first due to oversell in the main cabin. Yes, the staff took care of us perhaps because I am platinum. It was an appreciated gesture.
My son learned right then about a higher level of expected behavior in tthe front of the aircraft.( he knew what was expected in the main cabin also)
Since then I have taken him to the grandparents while I did some business in nearby cities...and we upgraded our selves for the return flights to L.A.
I can say without reservation he behaves better than some adults do up front ( or in any cabin) and has received compliments from cabin staff. (makes Dad proud)
Perhaps I am old fashioned, but he also is dressed nice when we fly...I believe it sets a tone of what is expected.
So, I will contine to take my son with me when I can, and I will have him sit up front with me for some longer domestic flights and have no qualms about it.
It is too bad that many children DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS EXPECTED OF THEM!
Gte439u From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 367 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12218 times:
As TgAgKuwait stated, a blanket policy would indeed be discriminatory. I have very little sympathy for those who feel that children should be banned from first and business class. There is no right not to be annoyed in life, and, moreover, every passenger has the ability to ask the parents to control their children.
Finally, there are more rich parents in the world than one may think, and airlines do not want to upset a family of five paying full P/J/F/C fare.
RB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12160 times:
I like it when children are in first class. I watch their amazement with the aircraft, looking out of the window, and getting all of the attention from the flight attendants, and remember what it was like when I was their age. Heck I still ask for pilot wings and little do-dads. I can't stand to fly with infants!!
Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
: You say that they can't sit in First class, but then why should they be allowed sit in economy? Then again, its a bit unfair if they cannot fly at all
: What if you couldn't be upgraded to first class because there were no more seats available...and when you boarded you discovered some of the seats wer
: Being in a plane (no matter what class you're in) is like being in any other public place. Kids cry all the time in public places. It's a fact of life
: A little crying can be handled. Most infants fall asleep right after take-off anyway. It's the "muck" that's a little hard to take.
: i only encountered this dilema once. i was sitting in the row behind a mother and her kid with my gf and was trying to sleep. the kid kept runing abou
: Some of the arguements here are asinine. Those in coach don't deserve to have it any less quiet than those up front. Oh, and I'm not sure, but last ti
31 Airbus Lover
: "What if you couldn't be upgraded to first class because there were no more seats available...and when you boarded you discovered some of the seats we
: What age do you consider Kids? When I was 12 or something and I could get an upgrade or I paid for it you know i would be up there........ Also some p
: It's not the quietness or loudness that makes this a controversial issue for me. It's more about the allocation of premium resources -- big seats, mor
34 Airbus Lover
: 767 please read reply number 31 and 32!!! If they can afford it then why not?! Nothing about wasting resources really. So what if they dont use up tho
: Airbus Lover....welcome to my resp user list. Amen to that!
: I guess I've always taken the "I don't need the extras...let someone else have them who needs them more" approach to things but I see your point. I've
: This topic is based on unsound, mildly selfish arguments. To begin with, anyone willing to pay for the cost of a premium class ticket and who is legal
: one word: Benadryl give the little bastard one of these or a half of one depending on body weight and they will be groggy for at least 8 hours, and mo
: 1.) If the kid is quiet, who cares, let them sit there. Just because you are upgrade happy and the kid paid full fare dosent mean you should sit there
40 Airbus Lover
: CLEspotter, thanks! I am glad I have made my point and it has been understood! Didnt take too long to explain though. I suddenly felt I have a lot to
: Here's a suggestion: Charter a private plane, without any of that angel flight crap, an you;ll have have a kid's free environment. AR385
42 UAL Bagsmasher
: If the parents are paying for a First Class fare, then I have no problem allowing their kid(s) in First. I do draw the line at non-rev children. Time
: I am for the no kids in first class rule. Here's a shocker: I agree with you!! I flew an LAX-DTW flight that departed at 2AM... sat next to a young gi
: I flew once (full fare) on Co's BusinessFirst from GIG to IAH via EWR (9 hours on a DC-10) I arrived at EWR at 5Am got the treatment from the (INS) an