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WHO Cares About First Class  
User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7765 times:

Why are so many people obsessed with first class. They go on about young people or old people or handicaped people and then is it with it, then first class vs. biz jet.

Its a plane seat for crying out loud. Yes it is cool to fly it and it is more comfortale and the all the extra cool stuff but its a seat.

Trust me I have been in First Class its just a bigger seat.

112 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5297 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7558 times:

Moolies,

I've flown in all classes, and I cannot understand why somebody would pay for First class. Even trans-atlantic Business was fine when I had to go to work straight after arriving. I think first class is only ment for super rich persons who don't give a damn about others, otherwise they would donate their difference in the fare between business and first to charity. I'm a tall guy, and I have no problem with business class to work and sleep. So don't give me the cheap excuse like, I'm to tall, I need rest, I need to work tomorrow.
First class is nothing but a very expensive toy for spoiled businessmen......


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 2, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7549 times:

And you get more space to sleep - but, in the end, that's really it... I don't mind paying the extra price for Business, but the added extra for First? No, not really...

And I fully agree with your other comments - it's a seat on a plane, not the place where you'll be spending the next few years of your life...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineIndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Only somebody who rarely gets the opportunity to fly within the premium cabin(s) would make these comments.  Smile

User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

No it aint. What i was complaing about was every one was ranting and raving about First.

Tell you what do you pay for First or does your business?

For the worlds top businessmen its a great thing to get on board eat and crash. The US airlines dont differentiate that well between first and business with regard to service.

When you pay your own First then say things. Or try this when you pay your own First even thou your company would but because you aint stuck up. then talk to me.





User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7526 times:

I never flew in First Class and it seems that I have to wait until I get an upgrade to fly in it. I agree with Leskova and KL911, Business is already comfortable enough, in January this year I flew EWR-LHR on BA in Business, and I asked myself why to hell they also have a First Class, BA's Club World had full-flat beds, delicious food and excellent service.

Patrick


User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7524 times:

I wasnt saying its extra or blah blah but morons bringing up things should children be allowed in first or should eldrely?

If they pay for it like every one else does and behave then why not?

eg. About 12 years ago Lufthansa wouldnt allow children under 12 in their first cabin. Well they lost my familys business.


User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8650 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7514 times:

First is cool because most people who travel in First class don't actually pay for it  Smile

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7505 times:

um, the entire population of FlyerTalk.com... for the purpose of meaning in their lives  Laugh out loud


On a more serious note... simple answer for a simple question: those who can and do pay for it.


User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7504 times:

I only fly first when the company allows it, i.e. when I have to bounce right up and head straight to a meeting.

Try flying constantly trans-Pacific and then say first isn't worth it.

N


User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7504 times:

I have been in Club and First, there is a differnece, it is just such a step up from economy that it is wow.

When you are 60 and have worked 14 hours a day for many years of you life and have made millions and you want to fly first why not?


User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5297 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7487 times:

''First is cool because most people who travel in First class don't actually pay for it''

I wonder why so many companies are in financial trouble..........


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3104 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7477 times:

All I know, is that I flew Business Class (defacto First) ONCE transatlantic, and it's been hard to go back to Economy. After the service I experienced (on CSA), I can't see how anyone who could possibly afford to fly that way wouldn't every chance they get!

Gee, let me think.... Would I rather be fed well, have stretch out room, and arrive fresh, or be cramped crowded, hot, barely fed, and sore when I arrive. Hmmm what a hard choice.....



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7462 times:

when you pay for first and when your company you work for is a huge difference.

You need to have a lot of money and have worked very hard to pay for first otherwise dont bother to try and be with the seriously successful especially when you aint paying.


User currently offlineMd11lover From Switzerland, joined Oct 2003, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7433 times:



If i had the money to fly first class, i would definitely do it. There is a big difference b/w First and coach and i would love to be served fine food, champagne and relax on a large comforable seat. Those people who can afford it, have obviously worked hard, so why not treat yourself to some luxury?

Md11lover


User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7424 times:

I am one of those rare people who actually pay for their own first class ticket.

It is expensive, but I think it is normally worth the extra, simply for the extra space. I agree that the service is often not worth the extra money. Often the service that you get is inverse to the money that you pay for the ticket...

My major gripe about 1st class is that airlines are not consistent in their product.

BA has to be the worst offender. Their First Class product ex LHR is 100 times better than their First Class ex LGW, but the fares are sky high, running into thousands of pounds. These "bucket and spade" routes are BA's Cinderella routes.

My understanding is that yields in the premium cabins are pretty healthy on their Caribbean routes. When will BA realise that if you can afford to pay first class to fly to Barbados for a holiday, there is a strong likelihood that you take other first class flights during the year?

I wish that someone could explain this!!!


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

You need to have a lot of money and have worked very hard to pay for first

Firstly, I'd like you to specify as to whether you're using the term "First" to generically describe any premium cabin? Or if you're using it to mean suite-quality actual international 1st class layouts.

If the former, then your statement isnt always correct: e.g., DL; on whom a leisure traveler can easily find I-fares of $2100.00 or less for roundtrip BusinessElite travel to most destinations in Europe.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7400 times:

Actually, after 4 long-haul-returns (11+ hour flights) within the last 4 months , of which I had to fly one in economy, got to fly two in business and flew one in first, I think I can make comments like the ones I've made without having to give out extra justifications...

As I've said above: the extra for Business, I'll pay, although I admit that, when I fly on my own money, I'll usually book eco and upgrade through miles - the company I work for, which I own, pays for Business Class - and the company I do consulting work for does, too.

The amount that comes above the Business Class fare for First is, in my opinion, not required.

Admittedly, I'm no regular in First Class, but having spent over 24 hours in LH First between 02OCT and 06OCT, I can say that - although it's nice - First is not something I'm willing to pay for.

Especially with all those nice new Business Classes around...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineMoolies From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7355 times:

when i say First i mean First class.
The one with between 8-12 seats in the cabin.

Althou I am still young I have been very fortunate to have flown first on many occassions due to my fathers hard work and determination.

He turns 60 at the end of this year and he still works from 8-8 with no lunch break.

For all is determination he has built up a business worth $ hundreds of millions and flies first and affords that luxury to his children. Now is a man who turns 60 this year and still works 12 hours a day not entitle to spend his own money and fly first with his family if he likes?

When he goes on business he even pays for his own ticket. If he books online and doesnt get his business to pay him back.

Now I would like any one to tell me that he doesnt deserve to fly first or that first for him is a waste?


User currently offlineCambrian From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 619 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7337 times:

Once you have turned left on an aircraft, you can never go back!  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5297 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7304 times:

''I only fly first when the company allows it, i.e. when I have to bounce right up and head straight to a meeting.''

Even for this purpose Business class will be sufficient considering the enormous price difference and the small difference in quality compared to the price. ( and my own experience). Better spend your money on something usefull. It's only between 8 and 14 hours of your life!!

Like I said before: It's a toy for spoiled people who need their 'status'..


User currently offlineAhlfors From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 1347 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7298 times:

Well, I've never paid for premium class. I've gotten upgraded a few times due to overbookings. However, this Christmas I'm flying AF/DL/JM GVA-CDG-JFK-ANU, and on the JFK-ANU, I was for some reason booked in First Class at a definitely not First class price for that routing ($1200 US Europe-Caribbean outbound during the blackout weekend before Christmas, inbound during the blackout weekend after New Year's). But hey, I'm not complaining.

User currently offlineRB211 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 632 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

Most businesses pay for their people to fly first class. It's a business expense which equals tax deduction. I have only paid for premium class seats when I wanted to go all out and do something special for my wife. Other than that, my company foots the bill. I mean really, how many people do you know THAT WORK will pay up to $30,000 for a plane ticket?


Airline photography. Whether they're fully clothed, butt naked, having issues or confused I'm taking pictures!!
User currently offlineQantas777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 484 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7291 times:

First on long-haul ie 8+ hrs is quite nice to have. However, when you are taking shorter flights, its stupid.

I think business is fine and even the econ plus on BA is nice to have especially when you have a huge tailwind.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7292 times:

Cambrian, I have to agree with you - one of my toughest flights this year was the one on which I flew eco for 12 hours each way just two weeks after flying the same route in first class... that was kinda rough...

But, I survived...  Wink/being sarcastic

Moolies, I do not think that anyone on this forum is trying to say that first class is a waste for your father - or that he does not deserve flying first: folks around here are expressing their personal opinions and, as I expect not too many around here know your father, I seriously doubt that anyone here was trying to make such decisions for him... after a life of hard, and succesful, work, I think you are entitled to fly just the way you like: should that be first class, then I think you are absolutely entitled to that - just as I personally would not second guess those who decide to fly economy class after just such a life...





Smile - it confuses people!
25 Kl911 : ''Now I would like any one to tell me that he doesnt deserve to fly first or that first for him is a waste?'' It's a waste! If you don't know what to
26 Moolies : Need their status I hardly would call a man who drives a $10000 car who flies in first needing his status. and also goes to work in jeans and a golf s
27 Post contains images Kl911 : Moolies, I'm not jealous and my posts are not aimed at your father. First of all, If I want to fly first, I can. But I won't.. I've found out that in
28 Moolies : You dont understand. If first aint worth it why do you upgrade when you have to get to a meeting in a hurry? you get there in the same time. I said wh
29 AMM744 : Having said all this, First Class is hugely overrated, exceptions being Singapore, BA, Emirates etc. Simple maths tells us that First is roughly ten t
30 Moolies : AMM744 you ever been in First? Ever heard of lounges and the cost of them? Sure maybe you do subsidise economy with first as some pople cliam. But as
31 Kl911 : ''I dont see you flyign economy on business and giving your money to war children.'' We actually do since a year and a half in our company. 50 percent
32 Prebennorholm : When I have two Porsches and a handful of expensive SUVs - one of every brand - in my garage, and my bank advisor has run out of ideas how to make new
33 Moolies : What bugs me is people have said business is better and first is a waste of money and shit. This discussion forum was for people to say who fly first
34 Post contains images Kl911 : ''Its the people who cant make it to first complain about the people who do.'' Nice sentence for somebody who's not even 21 years old and probably muc
35 Moolies : nah i aint 21. Let it put it to this way. My father put himself through his last years of school and univeristy. While paying for his education he pai
36 Kl911 : ''I mean after all you do come from a family of nuckle dragging trogladites, so how can you be expected to rise above the norm and do something great
37 Futureualpilot : Im with you on this, I dont see the big whoop. Ive flown it for quite a few carriers and I woild honestly rather save the money and fly coach. Ive sur
38 Accidentally : I've flown both, and I dont prefer either to the other. I'm all for the flight experience. Many people here seem to be for the airline experience.
39 Moolies : How sweet ban U15 from here, well in body you would still be here but in mine sorry my friend im sure someday somebody will start a kiddies airliners.
40 Moolies : And your serious matters would be? Complaning about people in first. And your a proffesional at what? Ankle grabbing?
41 Kl911 : ''If you have $200 million does the differnece bewteen coach to first matter?'' I don't know where you come from, but the answer is no. It's still the
42 Moolies : Possibly the world is helped by the sriously rich. eg. Anglo mining company has spent millions of dollars on education for poor people and their direc
43 Moolies : hey also please note, despite I think you hate me, i added you to my respected users all in the name of good fun.
44 FFlyer : I think some of you are talking about separate things. At first, the First class the domestic US travelers talk about is completely different from the
45 IndustrialPate : Let's get something straight: flying in Economy on long-haul flights (more than 8 hours) is miserable -- I don't care which airline you're traveling o
46 Moolies : Each to his own, me to my own and Kl to his own. I mean now SAA and BA are in a price war. Economy = $1428 Business = $3142 First = $4000 normally its
47 Danielbk : let me say this. some people have wrote some very negative comments about first class flying. let me tell you this. i do this once a week for three ye
48 Kl911 : Moolies, I don't hate you, why? Discussions are good as long as you keep them professional. You say something about people without knowing them. That'
49 Boeingflying31 : I've never paid for first class or business class but I've got it for free most of the time through miles, upgrades, etc. I think first class on domes
50 Moolies : Oh I thought you disliked me because of the digs I made at you. I agree, but each to his own opinion. It also bugs me when people say the rich dont gi
51 Moolies : Exaclty as with my father. I hate using him as an example but sometimes i think I need to. You depart from JHB at night, he gets on the plane, has sup
52 Moolies : KL you aint saying anything else? Im not being sarcastic or anything but I love debating with people and hearing their views.
53 Kl911 : Haha, you miss me? ''You depart from JHB at night, he gets on the plane, has supper and goes to sleep. He arrives in London well rested and gets off
54 Backfire : Only somebody who rarely gets the opportunity to fly within the premium cabin(s) would make these comments. Nonsense. I've often flown premium-class -
55 High_flyr69 : i have read this whole thread from start to finish and Moolies, i worry for you when you get old and your dad leaves you to fend for yourself. sure yo
56 AA7573E : Kl911 Pal you need to take your head out of the sand. The arrogance of your statement, regarding the nature of people who sit in first class, really h
57 Lhr001 : In this day in age more than ever people are choosing between price and value. First Class and Business Class products on Intercontinental routes will
58 Prebennorholm : Just before my company goes bust, it could be fun to try to fly first class. Hell, the difference might be that the company survived minutes more or l
59 Moolies : Hey high_flyer69, I am fortuante that I have been afforded such luxuries in my life and you havnt. It is the people who I have met in my life the heal
60 Moolies : Out of all the people I knwo why fly in First, when on business there compnay pays and when on holiday with their families they pay. So your statement
61 Moolies : AA 7573E you absolute legend. Finally some one who agrees with me.
62 Lhr001 : In the United States the demand for First Class is near depleated... Due to awful financial climate, national status, and uncertainties! However.... I
63 IndustrialPate : In the United States the demand for First Class is near depleated... Due to awful financial climate, national status, and uncertainties! um, no. It's
64 Post contains images Airbus Lover : Just because you can't afford it makes it for the "super rich who doesnt care about others?" People with the money has the right to fly in luxury. The
65 Jaysit : At this juncture in my life, I fly Business Class on long haul flights on non-biz trips. I usually shop for the best deal. For example, on a recent tr
66 Pmanchuk : In my personal opinion, domestic and international first class is worth every penny. Mind you I have yet to use a single upgrade or charge it as a bus
67 RiverVisualNYC : The point of having more than one class of service is to offer people choice. There are millions of people who can't afford a private jet, but want an
68 ZRH : I agree first class is very expensive. It also depends on the airline on some airlines (on Swiss, British and others) you have real beds. When you can
69 Moolies : Exactly. So KL sorry but as many peopel agree with me. You are wrong to make such outlandish and stupid statements that people in first should fly bus
70 Post contains images HlywdCatft : Well I haven't flown first class since 9-11, but I remember in the days before 9-11 you had a choice of meals on the flight in first while in coach yo
71 Greg : For me it's not a luxury..but a necessity..in order to be able to work. To say that it's a form of entitlement is bit skewed. While a perk of many pos
72 Aa777flyer : Yes First Class is worth it! Maybe not on a 2-3 hour domestic flight but on a long haul. You Bet. This past spring I flew DFW-NRT-HKG, nearly 17 hours
73 Post contains images Amhilde : I got upgraded once all the way from Economy to Upper on Virgin on the Rockstar Flight LHR-LAX. That was the first and only time I ever EVER got off t
74 Moolies : Hey amhilde if you consider UPN not good enough then you have some sort of mental problem. ever heard of short hand moron? Now also dont be jealous t
75 EdT : I'll add only a slight twist, as I ONLY get to fly first frequently due to the FF Elite Upgrades. At least on US domestic routes, I've seen First Clas
76 Post contains images Mandala499 : "Gee, let me think.... Would I rather be fed well, have stretch out room, and arrive fresh, or be cramped crowded, hot, barely fed, and sore when I ar
77 Cessna172RG : Moolies... How old are you? Why did you switch from "I hate first class," to "first class is the only way my father should fly?" Why not use the spell
78 Jrebel : "Has anyone on here endured- San Francisco to Hong Kong 15 Hours 20 Minutes San Francisco to Sydney 15 Hours 35 Minutes San Francisco to London 10 Hou
79 Mandala499 : Moolies, You won't get your money until you're 35? Well, until then I guess the participants of this thread will enjoy knowing that fact until you're
80 AZ : I can't be rich so you can't be rich. I can't fly F so you can't fly F Ummmmm, it reminds me something !!!!! Moolies, I'm with you.
81 Dtwclipper : I fly F/C domestic and Business internationally now a days (only because NW/KLM have no international F/C). Let me tell you one thing. On the 40 Min f
82 Essjay : Please believe that not all South Africans are as self-involved as one particular one here who is throwing such a hissy-fit! (Just re-checked your pro
83 Post contains images Aaer 777 : First class still exists for just one reason: For the airline employees who can brag to their family and friends and neighbours that they flew to LAX
84 Post contains images Aaer 777 : By the way, Moolies, you are one arrogant brat who could learn about life by doing check-in agent for 2 weeks... What your darling Dad earned after a
85 Captaink : Unless I am rich and i have that kind of money at my disposal, I would not fly first or even business. It is for the most only 8 hours of my life, and
86 Post contains images B4real : First Class is a requirement for the frequent traveller (myself). All First Class's are not equal, however. I've flown DL, AF, AM, UA, NW, CO, and HA
87 Gte439u : Moolies, How do you say "pompous nouveau riche" in Afrikaans? If you are as rich as you say that you are, maybe your kids will realize that it is cras
88 IndustrialPate : I'll agree with B4real that First Class matters to those who travel frequently. If you don't travel frequently you won't qualify for an inexpensive up
89 Post contains images KaiGywer : I have never flown anything but Economy. I once got a 5A set on a KLM 737-300, which happened to be a Biz seat, but still in economy class (right behi
90 Cessna172RG : You know, I'm starting to think... The more that Moolies talks about his Moolah, the less that I believe that he actually has anything to talk about!
91 Post contains images Kl911 : Cessna172RG, Exactly my opinion! Thanks for typing it for me.
92 Cessna172RG : No problem...I figured someone had to...
93 Nudelhirsch : Hi, what are approximate rates of people in FC: 1) Pax buying FC 2) Upgrades 3) Pax paid for by company (not airline, just business-trip) 4) Airline e
94 Leviticus : Thanks for that post Cessna172RG, you took the words right out of my mouth ! I myself aint a rich guy, I'm a University student and I live at home wit
95 Nudelhirsch : Pretty well said, Cessna, good words! this actually supports my latest post in this thread, about who had to pay (and work...) for hos FC ticket... or
96 B4real : IndustrialPate: For the record, I've never had AA f/c. But, in our gauges of quality of service, it is important to also consider the aircraft. Even t
97 FrequentFlyKid : Way off track, but DL 737-800 best first class in the fleet?! I'm very suprised to hear you say that. I found it to be the second worst, following the
98 B4real : FrequentFlyKid: What DL a/c is better in your opinion? (Not counting a/c with BizElite) 757/762/763/764/M80/M90/733/738/732 At times, I like the 764 b
99 IndustrialPate : B4real, I agree with you that there are numerous factors (including the lack of a premium cabin by one or more airlines on many routes). That said, I
100 B4real : You are right on the meal topic, but I don't really find that important. As if it was a good meal or a bad meal, I usually can't eat either (Atkins di
101 Planemaker : I have only paid for First Class once in my life - a RTW holiday ticket for $3500 (shows how long ago that was.) And on two legs of that trip I had an
102 Ckfred : I like flying first class, but I wouldn't pay for it. But there advantages than just a bigger seat. There's the drink while sitting at the gate. That
103 Moolies : Dont worry none of you will have to sit next to me in economy as I have myself, yes me and a good friend have managed to $2500 a month. Not to bad for
104 Moolies : Im arrogant, im cocky and im full of shit. I know all of you seem to be jealous, I never once said it was my right to fly First I mearly said I was fo
105 Greg : Uh dude....I wouldn't be so quick to brag...my car payment is more than that! And I'd hardly call myself an elitist. I think you have quite a ways to
106 Moolies : Oh yes and the majority of you living in your isloated little worlds wouldnt have heard of short hand would you? Now would a person at UPEN would they
107 Moolies : how old are you Greg? Your car payments are more than that. Do you know the seriosuly rich of the world have all bout cheap shit cars untill they coul
108 Benjamin : Moolies: Can you please explain yourself? You began this post saying that you don't know why people make such a big deal about First Class. Now, after
109 Greg : No one is impressed--get over yourself. There are plenty of more successful young adults and working members on this forum than you claim to be. Jealo
110 Salim : I'm only sure about one thing: if moolies's father is as nice as moolies says he is, he would certainly be ashamed by his son's writings on this forum
111 Post contains images Mandala499 : Cessna172RG (Reply #90)... SPOT ON ! Moolies... Hey how many of you organised a 48 hour party and made $10000 at the age of 18? A party for the rich?
112 SN-A330 : This topic is archived because it has gone off topic. SN-A330 (forum moderator)
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