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Iraq To Negotiate With Boeing To Lease Aircraft  
User currently offlineEurostarVA From Bahrain, joined May 2002, 1296 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

From AFP via Zawya.com:

BAGHDAD, Nov 13 (AFP) - Iraq is to negotiate with the US company Boeing to lease its aircraft and train Iraqi pilots, Iraq's interim transport minister said Thursday.

"I have to meet on Monday in Amman with Boeing representatives to discuss the possibility of a joint venture or that they lease their planes and train our pilots," Bahnam Zaya Bulos told AFP.

"We are not going to buy the planes. Boeing has a lot of planes. I am going to ask that they lease the planes after training our pilots over one month or six weeks," he said.

"If they want the planes to fly under the banner of Iraqi Airways, that is no problem. If they want them under another name, that is also no problem," he said.

The minister also said that his country signed an agreement with Airbus 12 years ago "to buy 10 Airbus (planes), and we have paid 10 percent of the sum, more than 10 million dollars."

Bulos said he has sent a letter to Airbus and is awaiting the company's response in order to re-open negotiations.



Iraq-US-air-Boeing-Airbus



If there is a will, there is a way
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3578 times:

Most mid-Eastern airlines have proven to be greater fans of Airbus...

..but anyone who doesnt see Boeing as the primary beneficiary of IA's restructure is rather seriously deluding themselves  Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1925 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3566 times:

The 767-200 and -300 would be ideal for Iraqi.

In order to re-open negotiations with Airbus? Will they get Airbuses or do they want their money back?


User currently offlineConcordeLoss From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

The minister also said that his country signed an agreement with Airbus 12 years ago "to buy 10 Airbus (planes), and we have paid 10 percent of the sum, more than 10 million dollars."

So that means the whole order cost around $100 million. Isn't that kinda cheap for 12 a/c's (espcially airbus) unless theyre really worn out?
What do you guys think?



"You're not as stupid as you look, or sound, or our best test indicates" Burns to Homer
User currently offlineIslandHopper From United States of America, joined Feb 2003, 327 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3509 times:

>Isn't that kinda cheap for 12 a/c's (espcially airbus) unless theyre really worn out?

Consider they placed the orders back in the 80's (for A310s, no?)...prices were cheaper back then.

This presents an interesting dilemma. Use their 10% down and get a good deal from Airbus, or forfeit their deposit and buy Boeing as a show of thanks and loyalty.

One advantage of buying Boeing is that they have pilots and mechanics already trained on 747s, 737s, and 727s, so perhaps the transition to newer equipment would be easier. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5037 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

So that means the whole order cost around $100 million. Isn't that kinda cheap for 12 a/c's (espcially airbus) unless theyre really worn out?

First, you have to think in late 1980s dollars (inflation and all that). Also, the firm part of the deal was for only 5 aircraft (A310s, the only A310s still on the Airbus backlog). the other five were probably options.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4808 posts, RR: 44
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3399 times:

The most logical choice for leased planes for Iraqi Airways would be a few B 737-700s + -800s and B 763ERs!!!

User currently offlineKL808 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1584 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

I would say convert the A310 order to an A330-200 order that way youll have a great aircraft. then award the short haul aircrafts to boeing.

drew



AMS-LAX-MNL
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3305 times:

One advantage of buying Boeing is that they have pilots and mechanics already trained on 747s, 737s, and 727s, so perhaps the transition to newer equipment would be easier

That, and the plethora of said types sitting in the desert... read that "cheap and practically immediate aquisition"!


User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3379 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

One advantage of buying Boeing is that they have pilots and mechanics already trained on 747s, 737s, and 727s, so perhaps the transition to newer equipment would be easier

I don't think that can be a big reason for Iraqi Airways. Most of their pilots have not had any flying for quite a while. It remains to be seen if their licenses are still valid internationally. Same with the mechanics etc.



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineUAL777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1558 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

A332, are you mad?! The 777 or even the 767-300 would be better. I cant STAND the 330/340. Plus they need to buy American since France isn't over there anyway.


It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3153 times:

Yeah, right - Iraqi Airways really desparately needs 777s - or, better yet, why not 744ERs for their new long haul routes to Sydney, Hawaii, Washington and Los Angeles?

Wake up - this is an airline that needs to be rebuilt after not operating for over a decade: what they need is to get back in the air first of all, it needs to reconnect Iraq to the countries around it, to Europe (don't mean that politically - although I think that would be a good idea as well), to the nearer parts of Asia.

I'd say that 737NGs or 320s would be what Iraqi needs right now - long haul expansion can always be added as soon as they're back to flying at all...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineKl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5237 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3081 times:

'This presents an interesting dilemma. Use their 10% down and get a good deal from Airbus, or forfeit their deposit and buy Boeing as a show of thanks and loyalty. '

Ofcourse it's easy to forget that there are about 50.000 European troops in iraq at the moment, most of them British, Italian, Dutch and Polish, of which the British fought in Iraq since day 1. Shouldn't they be loyal to airbus too?


User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

Iraqi Airways is going to be huge one day! I mean think of the prospects that the Iraqi economy will provide for the world. I could see Iraqi Airways being heavily influenced by politics when it comes to ordering aircraft one day. However, I think politics give Boeing an advantage in this case.

British Airways operates its entire long-haul fleet with Boeing aircraft. They have but some A319/320/321 that are used regionally in Europe. However even those are complemented by B737/757/767s.

The United States will definitely be looking to pump some Boeing aircraft into Iraq. America needs the economic recovery. Plus, Boeing needs these orders really badly...REALLY BADLY...

If Airbus has any advantage in this case, it would definitely lie in the fact that one of the top Airbus training centres is located just next door to them in Dubai! In the end I could see a mixed fleet shaping this airline.



MEA321
User currently offlineLt-AWACS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Actually Iraqi has been operating the whole time since 1991.

727 and 747s were flying Baghdad to Basra and Mosul daily. I know as we intercepted them daily. CNN flew with us and did stories on it, no big secret.

I've read various reports that some of these planes survived the war and some didn't .

I agree with the thought that the order will be split both Airbus and Boeing.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Yankee Air Pirate


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4808 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2922 times:

I wouldnt bet on AIRBUS getting any order from Iraqi Airways for the next few years...USA will push v v hard and demand BOEING 737NGs with either B 757s (used) or B 767s (used or new).

What would be wise though for Iraqi Airways to look into is to get some B 763Fs or AB6Fs or buy used B 763s and convert them into Freighters as they will generate a lot of $$$ initially during the reconstruction period which will last for the next 5 years at least and lots of stuff will be shipped to Iraq during this time.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2914 times:

The eventual order should be split, either Boeing Narrowbodies and Airbus Widebodies or vice versa.

However for the immediate future they need good, reliable, "affordable" equipment on which to build upon. To this I would say they should consider planes parked in the boneyards that are in good shape and need a new airline, aircraft such as...

737-300s, 757-200s, 767-300s

Nothing bigger than a 767-300 for the immediate future, nothing older than a 737-300.

767-300 for flights to London, India etc..

737-300s for flights to Amman, Beirut, Riyadh, Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait City, Mosul, Basra, Istanbul etc..




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineChrisdigo From Sweden, joined Oct 2003, 181 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2889 times:

UAL777: I cant STAND the 330/340. Plus they need to buy American since France isn't over there anyway.

 Insane <--- Chris


User currently offlineCV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2835 times:


Hi!

If we take the fact that Afganistan had a radical change too and that the only airliners they got were the A300's that India offered them I really question what Iraq will receive!
My feeling is that Iraqi Airways will stay out of business at least 1 more year, first of all the country is not that safe to start flights right away, and second Iraqi will need to reconstruct their airline from the ashes.
About airplanes, I still feel that USA should actually give the airplanes to Iraqi Airways, if they destroyed them why not offer some? In the Mojave Desert there are a lot of them that can be used, all types, all models, it's like a supermarket, just need to get there and pick the ones they like!!!
Regards


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