Captain Moya From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 11532 times:
Boys and Girls,
Is that time again to discuss this infamous subject which has been recycled more than Shirley McClaine. Chris Pummer of CBS MarketWatch came up with his very own list of the top ten most overpaid jobs. Guess who made the list? You got it, airline pilots. Though I'm only an aspiring airline pilot, I think this guy is so full of sh!t he'd make a toilet jealous. This guy needs an enema!
Airbazar From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3899 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11309 times:
No offense to all airline pilots out there (my father is one), but nowdays they're no more than glorified bus drivers. Their job is to take people from point A to point B in a big metal container and some airlines even treat the customers worse than the bus company. Overpaid? I don't know how much a bus driver makes.
JBirdAV8r From United States, joined Jun 2001, 2978 posts, RR: 21 Reply 3, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11282 times:
but nowdays they're no more than glorified bus drivers. Their job is to take people from point A to point B in a big metal container and some airlines even treat the customers worse than the bus company.
Micstatic From United States, joined Jul 2001, 561 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11273 times:
To expand on Boeing going gone. I think regional airline pilots are underpaid. But a pilot making over 200K. That's sick. Granted you have more passengers in a 777, does it really take that much more skill to fly than a 737? I don't think so
Motech722 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 190 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11278 times:
Captain Moya, I couldn’t agree with you more. Here we have the age old idea of bias in the media, by choosing only numbers that help make a case.
“9) Pilots for major airlines
While American and United pilots recently took pay cuts, senior captains earn as much as $250,000 a year at Delta, and their counterparts at other major airlines still earn about $150,000 to $215,000 - several times pilot pay at regional carriers - for a job that technology has made almost fully automated. By comparison, senior pilots make up to 40 percent less at low-fare carriers like Jet Blue and Southwest, though some enjoy favorable perks like stock options. That helps explain why their employers are profitable while several of the majors are still teetering on the brink of bankruptcy.”
Let’s think about this for a moment. Last time I checked, Southwest, while a low fare carrier, was also a major. By comparing “major” carriers to “low cost” carriers is like comparing apples to pineapples. If he wanted to make a point, he should have compared “majors” to “nationals” and “regionals”. In addition, instead of taking the highest pay, he should take the average pay in each group and then see what the answer is. I’d think it would look a little different. Throw in the “highest” wages at Southwest, America West, and Alaska too for this “major airline” topic, and lets see what the average is.
In addition, it would be nice to have a percentage of how many pilots are making this kind of money. Instead of using the senior pilots, why not take the average salary of all pilots in the majors. It certainly would be nice to see a non-biased report come out, but then again, if this was non-biased, I doubt very much that “major airline pilots” would be on the list.
Goose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1833 posts, RR: 22 Reply 6, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11260 times:
Airline pilots make a lot of money, no doubt. Many airline pilots I speak to admit that there's "not much to it." That's one of the attractions of the job. Why else would there be so many pilots clamouring for so few airline jobs?
But times have changed since the 707 was around. Piloting an aircraft has become much more automated - but thankfully, not entirely so. You still need pilots.... but I don't think that the inflated pay scales from a bygone era are a necessity. JetBlue and other current LCCs have the right idea..... and I highly doubt you'd find many B6 (or WS or any other LCC) pilots who say that they're pay is unfairly low, or the benefits don't make up the difference. Many are thankful to have a job doing what they want.... there's lots of aspiring pilots slinging luggage in airplane pits.
Aaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 4339 posts, RR: 19 Reply 7, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11189 times:
Okay, so we all know there's not much to it 99 times out of 100. Just remind yourself of that, Mr. Plummer, next time you're in 21A and the boys up front are bringing you down to minimums in pouring rain and howling wind with some electrical problems to boot.
Is the top end of the payscale inflated? Absolutely. Nobody needs to be making $200K in what amounts to legacy pay just for operating a larger type. That can certainly be curtailed. But make no mistake, airline pilots deserve significant compensation.
And it can't be emphasized enough - mechanics should be earning right up there with them.
"Sentimentality plays with sweet intentions in place of good sense." - Jane Jacobs
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11178 times:
I think that the "market" has proven that many airline pilots are indeed overpaid. The "old line" traditional carriers - Delta, American, United, etc are
struggling to remain financially viable whilst the new kids on the block such as Jet Blue, America West, Southwest, etc. and many of the others are doing much better. Although there are many variables that enter into the equasion, one common factor with the low cost carriers is that you don't see $250,000+/year pilots on their payrolls. The Law of the Jungle applies to pilot wages as well.
As far as the concept of underpaid commuter airline pilots go...
Yes, I believe that they are not paid very well, but they are paid what they are able to command and thus adequately paid. There is a surplus of aspiring pilots who would be more than happy to occupy any front seat in any commuter airline. Until that changes, their wages will remain low.
AA7573E From United States, joined Nov 2003, 475 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11142 times:
Lets make some comparisons. You work for company Dell and you are brought in when the company is doing very well, you get a big salary and a nice bonus. When you the company starts to slide, people get laid off, salaries are reduced and benefits packages are curtailed. You are not paid at the same rate you were when the company and the economy was going gangbusters.
Now if you are an airline pilot, and you are brought in at a huge salary, when the economy starts doing poorly and your company continues to lose money hand over fist do you take a pay cut. 9 out of 10 times no you don't, you fall back on your union and demand that your pay not be cut. Unless you are non unionized, in which case the problem is not nearly to this scale, b/c you are not getting paid outrageous rates anyway.
Why is it that airlines are different than computer companies, are different than banks, are different than retail companies? When performance and income slips, there have to be cuts. But in the airlines, to get a cut, you have to threaten to shut the damned thing down, or go into bankruptcy, so your contracts are voided. I think for the most part airline pilots should be paid more than a bus driver, they should make money comensurate with the level of skill, education and training they must undergo.
But they should not be immune to the impact of the economy, they should not be able to demand their higher salary, when the rest of the economy is taking it in the can! Before i get attacked by every pilot out here, just know that we who make less net salary than you, have borne a higher marginal percentage of job losses, salary reductions and cut backs. I am not saying you don't derve your money, you shoud just have to make it in the real economic world like the rest of us.
I am sure I will get beaten up pretty badly for this, but why not. You guys call in sick when you get wage cuts threatened, I wish I could do that.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 15041 posts, RR: 65 Reply 11, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11131 times:
Some are overpaid, some under, as BGG said.
I would argue that you are an overpaid airline pilot if any of the following conditions apply:
1. Your airline is in bankrupcty/Chapter 11 protection. Costs needs to drop & this includes YOUR salary.
2. You make more money that your counterparts at the LCC's. You're doing the same jobs....why should you be paid more?
3. Your airline is losing money but not yet in bankruptcy.
Goingboeing From United States, joined Dec 1999, 4875 posts, RR: 27 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11092 times:
No, they aren't overpaid. Here's why....a guy fresh out of graduate school (25 to 26 years old) can enter the workplace as an investment banker and make over 6 figures a year to start. A pilot can serve in the military for some period of time (not a notoriously high paying area), then move into the ranks of a regional carrier at very low pay rates...work his way up to a mainline carrier for a wage that is "livable", then finally move over to the left seat and start making a "respectable" wage.
Or, the non military pilot can spend his own dollars on flying lessons and schooling, then spend time building hours as a CFI, then he might get on with a small courier company....then on to a job with a "regional" carrier...then over to a major...then building his time until he moves to the left seat.
Now...here's the difference - he may be in his late 30's to mid 40's by the time he makes left seat of a "major" airline. Even older to pull the "Big bucks" of a 777 pilot. The government says he must retire by age 60. He's got 20 years or less to make the "big bucks".
There is no retirement age limit for our 25 year old investment banker who's been pulling in a 6 figure income from day one...He can work as long as he wants, but most likely won't, since by the time the airline pilot has reached the age where he can move into the left seat, the investment banker has made enough to retire. Oh...the investment banker can make a "bad decision" that costs his clients some money (but he'll still make his money) whereas if a pilot makes a "bad decision" and dents a Boeing, it could end his career.
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 469 posts, RR: 4 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 11035 times:
I am not a commercial pilot and I am not employed in the industry, but I sometimes work as a consultant to the industry.
I agree with Aaron747. I want the job to be so attractive that the airlines can choose the very best, so that on the day it REALLY hits the fan the people up there are totally and uncompromisingly capable.
But there is more to it. Consider a four sector day in Europe. On Sector 1 a passenger is late to the gate and the flight misses its slot. During Sector 1 there is warning of the proximity of a military aircraft that is not responding to ATC. Preparing for sector 2 85 meals turn up for 105 passengers. During Sector 2 a line of thunderstorms has to be traversed along with a dozen other aircraft. Company radio informs that the crew have to change aircraft between sectors 2 and 3 and go to a distant gate (because of the missed slot they are already late). The crew arrive at the Sector 3 gate 40 minutes late and have to walk through a hostile load of waiting passengers (remembering that they are late because of the late show of the passenger on the earlier flight). On board the APU turns out to be u/s. More delay and an overheating cabin. Another missed slot (of course). At the end of sector 3 there is a missed approach due crosswind. On the ground 90 minutes late it transpires that baggage handlers have walked off the job. Questions about duty hours now threaten whether Sector 4 will operate at all - but all the passengers are at the gate. Everybody decides to make an effort and the plane in fact turns round in 18 minutes. At the end of sector 4 there is no free gate for 20 minutes after landing.
This is a real day that I observed from start to finish (and I haven't even included the captain finding that someone had dinged his car in the car park).
I want people who can handle a day like that and STILL operate the aircraft without flaw. I'm prepared to pay for it.
Gamps From United States, joined Jul 2003, 467 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10938 times:
Sorry for a dumb question - but regarding salary of LCC pilots how does seniority work?
i.e. a pilot flying for Jetblue now, will he be earning on par with big guys in 2013? And the difference vanish between a Delta/United Captain and a Jetblue Captain's salary? How does seniority work in LCC?
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4535 posts, RR: 60 Reply 15, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10907 times:
Basic Salary + Performance based pay!
Based on Duty Hours, and Company Profit Sharing!
Yes, wouldn't that be ideal? Until some big wig in the management office starts taking out HUGE bonuses either by taking his retirement pay early, or taking a retirement, or cashes in his stock option (before the stock price plummets) while the company is also money.
Management mentality needs to change too for pilots to trust them and change to more profitability base pay. I for one am concerned about stock option and how such "liability" to the company's balance sheets are reported, and how it affects the company's cashflow... cashflow normally drains before you start posting losses... and share prices are based on profits not cashflow... there's a danger here.
I don't see anything wrong in a pilot making 200,000 a year, I don't see anything wrong in a 737 captain making only a grand total of 36,000 USD per year. Regardless of how much they're making, management needs to be more open to their staff, especially the pilots, cabin crew and engineers... Having a hostile union out of these against some bigwig management seeking to cash in on their "fruits" during times of unstable financial performance is definitely something to avoid!
Herbie Kelleher and Gordie Bafoon got it right... Money isn't everything... a happy trusting working environment can lower a company's salary burden, a hostile distrusting one will result in each defending their salary turf!
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10900 times:
"I agree with Aaron747. I want the job to be so attractive that the airlines can choose the very best, so that on the day it REALLY hits the fan the people up there are totally and uncompromisingly capable.
Please don't make the mistake in believing that the salary that one makes determines one's level of competence. If anything, the bloated ALPA top-tier salaries and union policies encourage mediocracy in the cockpit. If you don't think so, just ask someone how hard it is to get rid of an incompetent pilot. It's the seniority number, not the pilot's skill that determines what seat he sits in and how much he is paid. An aviation career requires a nearly fanatical level of dedication in order to pay the dues required to sit in any paid seat - airline or corporate. If your main motivator is money, you probably won't make it.
EA CO AS From United States, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 9889 posts, RR: 73 Reply 17, posted (6 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 10825 times:
There is no retirement age limit for our 25 year old investment banker who's been pulling in a 6 figure income from day one...He can work as long as he wants, but most likely won't, since by the time the airline pilot has reached the age where he can move into the left seat, the investment banker has made enough to retire. Oh...the investment banker can make a "bad decision" that costs his clients some money (but he'll still make his money) whereas if a pilot makes a "bad decision" and dents a Boeing, it could end his career.
And let's point out one additional fact, which is that the investment banker's job isn't dependent on passing a rigorous government-mandated physical every six months.
So if the investment banker has a bad physical, no big deal. If a pilot does, it's time to start selling cars or waiting tables.
So the combination of:
1. high investment of personal time and money to get into the career
2. low wages at the outset
3. "big bucks" only in the latter years of your career
4. mandatory retirement age
5. ability of your entire career to end abruptly at any time against your will
all are reasons that pilots are paid as much as they are, not to mention the enormous personal responsibility of being liable for hundreds of lives at once.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 469 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10749 times:
I partly agree with you Jetguy. I am more concerned about the seniority restrictive practrices issue than anything else.
Having said that in my long experience around aero clubs and airlines there are a lot of fanatically dedicated people who have been sustained in making their huge time and money investment by the prospect of (maybe) eventually getting it back with good pay. they are the sorts iof people i want flying me, and I don't begrudge them the money - it is deferred reward for commitment
So my biggest concern about future competence is the trend to no and low hour trainee recruitment that puts people in the right hand seat with no experience and no passion. In these cases the money CAN be the driver of incompetence.
Jettblack From United States, joined Oct 2003, 4 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10702 times:
This is my opinion. But I think its very sad when the pilots have to take a paycut, however if the guys or gal can't live on what is probaly still considered what some doctors make then that also is a problem. Look at some of the ramp workers that live in California. Some have to take two or three jobs.
Ual777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10662 times:
Real funny to hear all the pilots and future pilots of America argue why commercial pilots aren't over paid.
AA757 brought up the best example I read, I didn't read them all but some are lame excuses.
Why is it that companies like DL,UA,AA which are very fine companies to work for, and pilots are paid very well paid, but if you keep using the lame excuse that I want a guy up there at 32,000 Ft and there is an electrical outage blah,blah,blah. I know that a guy working for AWAC or SKYWEST or on the smaller side, companies like ALLEGIANT who don't pay their pilots crap are just as capable if not more to deal with the SAME situation as the next.
ALL the excuses of needing to pay these guys and gals bloated salaries is a crock, they can still perform their jobs at less than $200,000 a year and if they DONT? You get a guy up there who is fresh out of the military or private schooling and he will do the job and be trained the exact way an overpaid whinny pilot is. Just because you work for a regional doesn't mean you aren't smart enough to work for a major, you may not have been applying when they were hiring, get someone up there who wants to be there for half the pay and half the whinnying.
Start saving companies because you aren't paying these people outrageous wages.
UAL777 From United States, joined Aug 2003, 1258 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10573 times:
Perhaps you guys do not understand. I'll take a Cap'n. I know at UA. He was making appx. $210,000 pre Sept. 11. He has been furloughed once and has been on strike twice.
Since Sep. 11, he has lost over 50% of his retirement, has taken a 30% paycut, and has lost many insurance benefits.
This man has devoted 25 years to UA. He is away from home an average of 4.8 days a week, and he has 3 kids. None of you are pilots, so who gives you the power to judge what others make. You aren't in the profession so perhaps you do not always see what goes on inside. There are catastrophic engine failures, unruly passengers, weather, lonely nights in hotels, the much feared PC, and putting 200,000 lbs. of metal down in 30kts. of direct cross-wind on an icy runway.
I think that pilots do deserve the money they make because of the time, effort, and commitment they have to commit to make it to the top.
Stop hating all the time.
Just say NO to scope relief! In fact, TAKE IT BACK!
MD80Nut From United States, joined Jul 2003, 827 posts, RR: 13 Reply 22, posted (6 years 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 10510 times:
Airline pilots are certainly NOT overpaid in my opinion. Just look at the vast responsibility they have, handling the lives of hundreds on board. And in today's post 9/11 environment, the stress, responsibility and obligations of airline pilots have gone up dramatically to boot. No sir, not overpaid at all in this airline passenger's opinion!
Sports, movie and TV stars, now there's an overpaid bunch of mugwumps!
CV990 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10494 times:
Hi!
I don't know if they are or they are not overpaid. What I think is that those pilots that used to fly right after WWII until mid 80's and started what I would call the airline business and all that was attached to that were indeed underpaid!!!!
I respect a lot those fellows, they were pioneers in their times, and I consider myself a previlege person that had relation with some of them from our portuguese airline TAP/Air Portugal. Flying a C-47/DC-3 from Lisbon to Maputo ( Mozambique ) in 6 days was not a piece of cake. Landing a C-54 Skymaster in the algerian desert ( Aolef ) without any radio aids and actually no runway was not a piece of cake. Fly often a L1049 with only 3 engines was not a piece of cake. Taking-off from Kano in extreme hot weather conditions in a L1049 were you had to gamble your engines cools flaps and see the airplane slowly climbing was not a piece of cake.
Those crews were underpaid? Yes indeed they were underpaid!
My tribute goes to Capt. Enrique de Maya and Capt. Silva Pereira, the two TAP pilots that started from the beggining this airline ( TAP ) in 1945 and flew until mid 80's when they retired with the 747-200.
Regards
BMAbound From Sweden, joined Nov 2003, 660 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10433 times:
I totally agree with Aaron747. Flight mechanics are underpaid!
Furthermore, tell me one passenger on the MD-plane that went down outside of ARN (have you guys heard about that?) in 1991 due to a dual engine failure (w/ no casualties) who thinks his/her capt. is overpaid! There are countless more incidents where the guys in front are worth every penny they make, and more!
Dalmd88 From United States, joined Jul 2000, 1984 posts, RR: 13 Reply 25, posted (6 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10388 times:
So you think airline pilots are overpaid. Right now DL is begining negotiation with the pilots. Management is demanding cuts to bring our costs in line with the LCC of SW and JB. I think the opened with 30% cuts and an increase in min hours a month. When the pilots balked they make the pilots out to be the reason for our hugh losses. Yes our pilots do make alot more than the others but that is not the whole story. Let's look at the management side of the coin. I can't remember the exact numbers but Leo makes around $790,000 a year. With bonuses for leading us with huge losses and terrible stock price he tops out at about $1.5 Millon a year. All of the rest of Senior Mangement is in the same ball park. We also have some 50 VP's. I think if you stand around in the hall long enough they make you one.
At SW the CEO makes about $400,000 with some bonuses. I can't remember the totals. For JB, Needleman makes $200,000 a year. Now Leo isn't alone, Arpy at AA makes over $800,000 plus bonuses. A true leader would lead from the front. Lee Iaccoca was a mastermind. Sure he asked the government to bail out Chrysler but he lowered his pay to $1. That is a bit drastic, but any CEO demanding cuts of 30% should be willing to take the same cuts and for go all bonuses during such poor company performance.
26 Backfire: Sounds like people here are missing the basic point. Like most things, a pilot is worth only what someone is prepared to pay. This is, in turn, dictat
27 B747Skipper: No secret about my current monthly salary: US$ 3.700/mo as 747 captain... That is Argentina, living in Buenos Aires... cost of living same as NYC... M
28 Triscl: Amen, backfire. I wish everyone made a lot of money. I want the guys at the front to be compensated such that they do their job and get everyone off a
30 Cancidas: let's not forget that we pilots have to sink in a lot, and i mean A LOT of money to get to the airlines. do you have any idea of how much money 5000 h
31 Jrlander: Overpaid as compared to what? The statement "over" implies a comparison. Are they overpaid compared to other workers? That's a horrid way of doing a c
32 Triscl: EXACTLY, compared to WHAT? If the market can handle it, ie if airlines can fill seats AND pay those $200K+ salaries AND stay in business, GREAT! That'
33 EMBQA: Well trust me on this one.......Bus Drivers make more money then A&P Mechanics..!!! ....and we have up to 300 passangers and 14 crew member lives in o
34 767Lover: I don't think they are any more overpaid than the businesspeople flying in the cabins are.
35 ORBITJFK: I think regional pilots are very underpaid. Widebody senior captains make just as they should. Its just like climbing the corporate ladder. Being a pi
36 Goingboeing: I don't think they are any more overpaid than the businesspeople flying in the cabins are. Those in large companies who are flying in an airliner are
37 AAR90: As usual most folks who comment on this subject know nothing about the subject. Arpy at AA makes over $800,000 plus bonuses. Arpy receives less than 7
38 Skymileman: Anyone who thinks airline pilots are overpaid is just jealous. They just wish they could do a job like that. They need to wake up and smell the coffee
39 Scootertrash: Some pilots, very few relatively speaking, make allot of money. Most do O.K. and many make very little at all. There is a huge difference between the
40 Barney Captain: I just love the misconceptions. First of all, Low Cost does not equate to Low Pay. We here at SW are fast becoming some of the best compensated (not i
41 Goboeing: I agree with Barney Captain 200%. Think of all the expenses and incomes a large airline has, and you'll realize how small a part of that is changes in
42 Jhooper: When you're sitting in the back of a jam-packed 747 dodging thunderstorms down to a 100ft ceiling and 25kt crosswinds at night with an engine on fire
43 UPSfueler: UAL777, I just want to inform you that pilots are not the only ones at UAL that lost nearly all their retirement and took pay cuts. We ALL did. And si
44 Goose: I agree with Barney Captain 200%. Think of all the expenses and incomes a large airline has, and you'll realize how small a part of that is changes in
45 XFSUgimpLB41X: Anybody who thinks that labor is an airlines largest cost is badly misinformed.
46 Jumbojettim: Stop complaining how pilots are overpaid and glorified bus drivers in the air, and start complaining how GROSSLY overpaid athletes and movie stars are
47 Ual777contrail: jumbojet, this is an aviation forum not a movie forum, this is why people complain that pilots are over paid. upsfueler, are you trying to start an ar
48 Futureualpilot: I can't think of any other job that requires you to pay thousands of dollars, requires thousands of hours of command time in an aircraft, meeting cert
49 Futureualpilot: Ever flown a 737 Dave? How about had some sort of failure in one? Maybe at a critical moment on takeoff or climb out? If you have then you are in a po
50 Futureualpilot: I'd like to apologize to Dave for my last reply, its been a long day, and a bad one at that....traffic was a bit frustrating here tonight. ANyways I m
51 Ual777contrail: From the words of a pilot " some day they will only have one pilot in the plane, and one dog, the pilot is there just to feed the dog." That was from
52 Tu154m: I am a mechanic for one of the US "legacy" carriers. It just so happens that our pilots are the top of the industry in pay..........40% higher than so
53 StevenUhl777: Tu154m: Well stated, and my Dad, who was a 36-mechanic for another "legacy" carrier, 20 of which were on the line at a smaller, non-hub station, but h
54 UPSfueler: UAL777Contrail, thats what I am saying, im sticking up for the rest of us who these guys forgot to mention when they said pilots lost out. Like you sa
55 Tokolosh: I've only read part of the post here (there are so many), so apologies if I'm repeating something. I think it is good that pilots get a good salary, a
56 Bucky707: Found this about ten years ago. I think its time to post it again. Very long. Why Airline Pilots Should Make $200,000 (or more) The airline business i
57 BoingGoingGone: Good God this subject get's beat to death.
58 Ual777contrail: Then you get the what about me crap, mechanics making $200,000 a year? please, for what they do, 90% are over paid right now as we speak. UAL 777 CONT
59 Ual777contrail: There are 90% of the CSR'S I work with that are over paid, get rid of the unions and see who really wants to work at the airlines, or see who would be
60 IndustrialPate: Unions protect losers and hurt hard workers, but most of you who work for the airlines excluding pilots know this. I strongly disagree. Some unions ma
61 Mandala499: I wonder how many know the real situation here... Here are some off hand comments... UAL777Contrail... 9/11 ?Hell, UAL was already in trouble by then!
62 Ual777contrail: industrialpate, Just a quick example, we have a loser in our station who called in sick to attend a wedding that many,many other UAL employees at HIS
63 UPSfueler: I am going to agree with UAl777Contrail on this. At ORD which is UAs biggest hub we have hundreds of rampers who do not deserve their job because they
64 Yyz717: Just a quick example, we have a loser in our station who called in sick to attend a wedding that many,many other UAL employees at HIS own station atte
65 Ual777contrail: yyz717, you must not be in a union. If the company couldn't fire him due to his illness on a wedding day, then they aren't going to fire him because h
66 EMBQA: UAL777 And what do pilots do but sit on their butts all day....? V1, V2, Rotate....Auto Pilot on.....!!! Time to pull out the newspapers, books and ma
67 XFSUgimpLB41X: V1, V2, Rotate....Auto Pilot on.....!!! Yep...thats it...you've figured us out. That's all there is to it. You can fly a jet now. Go apply to the airl
68 Futterman: V1, V2, Rotate....Auto Pilot on.....!!! unless you intend to establish a positive rate of climb before you rotate, i think you should call 'V1...Rotat
69 UAL777: EMBQA, it sounds like you have a little bit of peni...aviation envy. You obviously do not understand. I'd like to see you put a fully-loaded 767 down
70 Andrewuber: I know that in today's economy, pilots who are working for airlines, and fulfilling their dream of flying, should not really complain. There are thous
71 EMBQA: Maybe we are all missing the point I was trying to make. Is a main line guy making 250K over paid...?? Yes,.....Is it wrong that the guy starting out
72 EMBQA: Home Depot pays more for PT, then I make after 8 years as a mechanic FT....and they offer stock options that pay !!!
73 Ahsanf28: Most Airline Pilots are certainly not overpaid. A handful number of airlines around the world (Some US majors, Some European,Middle Eastern and Far Ea
74 Ual777contrail: EMBQA, I would see you same tossers make easy runs between non-hub cities stopping at every DENNIES along the way. Then you claim that you can rewire
75 Uadc8contrail: knowing how ual777 works.....i would rather have him do a oil ck on a inop oil gauge than half the mech at den.,,,,,,,,,,,,,
76 Bucky707: "Home Depot pays more for PT, then I make after 8 years as a mechanic FT....and they offer stock options that pay !!!" Hmm, if thats true why are you
77 EMBQA: Hey Bucky707... Its been a while.!! Well, am a shareholder with HD and it a has paid out quite nice, so I guess I can enjoy some of their benefits. (a
78 DL328: Why pilots aren't overpaid... 1. A lot of time and money is spent to just to get hired by a regional airline. 2. Low salaries for regional pilots. 3.
79 Mandala499: All this talk about pilots getting overpaid etc... "All in all, an average pilot starting on a 732 here has spent about 50 - 100k USD to get to where
80 L-188: No, if there are anybody in the industry that is underpaid, it is the mechanics.
81 Beltwaybandit: In a free market, nobody is overpaid or underpaid for long. Supply and demand creates leverage. Unions have a way of aggregating employee leverage whi
82 Bucky707: "are we the same Bucky707 that used the AOL Aviation chat rooms a few years back..? )" Yes, same one.
83 EMBQA: Cool- Good to see you again...!! Still driving an MD-80 for DAL..? I was living in BGR when we would chat in the AOL aviation room....though under a d
84 E1FAIL: "Then you claim that you can rewire a 767, string it blah,blah blah and take 150 man hours to do it. Mechanics aren't highly trained people who only c
85 Sleekjet: My greatest concern is for the pilot of the commuter airline who has to deal with the very same factors that the well-paid pilots deal with, except in
86 Bobs89irocz: Pilots no dought have a dream job, and make great money. BUT they go to school for it and go through long hard training for being a pilot. They also h
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From , joined Dec 1969, posts, 
From United States, joined Sep 2003, 3899 posts, 
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got it right... Money isn't everything... a happy trusting working environment can lower a company's salary burden, a hostile distrusting one will result in each defending their salary turf!
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From Sweden, joined Nov 2003, 660 posts, 
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