Kwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 441 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2975 times:
Not much happening on the PDX front. NW was suppose to have made a decision by the end of October but they have not. I would guess the longer the decision takes, the less likely they will fly the route. According to the PDX website, they have over $9 million in corporate guarantees the 1st year.
LH appears to be doing OK however they have reduced their flights from daily to 5x per week. The daily flight will be resumed in late March.
Cargolux is now longer flying to PDX ( I am sure LH had something to do with that)
QX appears to be taking over some of AS' flights for the winter.
PDX is on Airtran's, JetBlue's and ATA's radar but probably nothing in the next year
Kwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 441 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2942 times:
I just checked the PDX website again and they posted a new message today (11/14). In short, it said Northwest's facilities / operation team was at PDX during the last week of October to determine how their operation would work at PDX. They also spent time with local businesses and travel agencies. It would appear from this there is at least a strong interest but they are still reviewing the feasability of such service.
Kwbl From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 441 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2833 times:
Why would it make "no sense"? If there is a demand, why would it not make sense? If (and I stress if) NW flies the route, it is because they feel (especially with the incentives the port of Portland) they can make a profit. Remember that PDX had NS service to NRT since 1983 before DL cancelled. Why would an additional flight from SFO or SEA be better? With the AS/QX codeshare, I would argue that PDX-NRT would be better than SFO-NRT. Also, SFO has no shortage of flights to Asia (let alone Narita). Not trying to be confrontational, just want to hear the logic behind your argument.
Yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1711 posts, RR: 3 Reply 7, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2811 times:
That's true, but at that time, DL had a lot of flights out of PDX (WHich they don't anymore). NW will have to rely on Alaska (or Horizon) to feed that route. That's why I am saying that more flights (if necessary) on the SEA-NRT or the SFO-NRT already have the needed support from feeders.
Nickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1481 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2674 times:
DL did not have all the many flights to PDX - that was part of the problem in PDX for them. They pretty much only had flights from their hubs plus SFO, LAX and YVR. They also offered nonstop service to JFK and BOS. BOS service lasted only a few months. PDX was mainly a transit stop - from many DL cities, it was a two stop trip to Asia if you flew DL. PDX was similar to what JFK is for DL now - an international gatway with relatively little feed. The big difference of course if the number of international destinations DL serves from JFK and the size of the O&D market there.
Yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1711 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2671 times:
I know what you mean, but I guess DL had a sizebale presence at PDX a few years back. As you said, they had service to YVR, LAX and SFO (Which aren't your DL hubs). They had at least 3 flights a day to YVR if I remember correctly. YVR to SLC wasn't even serviced. Many people used to fly to PDX to connect to California on DL. After the open skies agreenment, DL changed its service to Canada. They cancelled YEG, YYC to SLC (YYC now is served by Skywest) and YVR had some service from CVG, PDX and SLC for a short time. And all of a sudden the PDX YVR service was dropped. So were the LAX, SFO to PDX.
My point here is that PDX just wasn't meant to be used as a hub or an international gateway at all by DL. And without your Business Class and full Y coacj connecting from YVR, SFO and LAX, the PDX NRT would just never make any money.
Why would NW all of a sudden start operating that route out of PDX ??
Coronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1591 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (10 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
Because PDX has traditionally been a strong NW city and NRT is a connecting hub for NW. PDX pax will be able to connect onward to other Asian cities such as BKK, HGK, TPE, ICN, MNL & PDK. Tie that in with potential feed from AS on this side of the Pacific and that NRT flight just might fill up.
Remember, PDX only has SEA & YVR as connecting options to Asia that does not require backtracking.
Cschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (10 years 1 month 21 hours ago) and read 2542 times:
NW already flies SEA - Tokyo so they couldn't add that. There are a lot of tech companies with Asian ties in the Portland area, plus other imports such as cars and sports apparel. PDX also has more available cargo capacity than SEA.
SuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 572 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (10 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 2521 times:
Remember, NW will operate 150 less seats on SEA when the 747 goes to the A330-200. A Portland flight would only increase the Pac NW seats by about 50-100 per day. That should be enough to split the flow that Alaska/Horizon/Delta/Continental gives NW at SEA between SEA and PDX. The PDX local market could make up the rest. I think it makes sense. It's just a matter of if NW can make money on the route. I have no idea how they are doing on Seattle today. The 747 may be way too big and losing money, or it could be stuffed.
Ctbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (10 years 1 month 20 hours ago) and read 2502 times:
It's usually stuffed, but that's no indicaiton of whether it makes money. The SEA-NRT route took a big hit with the SARS scare last spring, but I think on balance it is a traditional bread and butter flight for them with strong historical connections.
This is the first I've heard NW is going to go to the A330 on that route, UA went to a 777 some years back on the same route, and also seems to be doing well. PDX-NRT might be one way of mitegating the number of seats, though bilateral agreements and NRT capacity restrictions will make intruducing such a route difficult unless they already have authority or move authority from one of their other NRT routes. I suppose though if there was sufficient demand and NW thought they could make money off it, they could use one of their 744's out of SEA, perhaps in the summer months.
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17289 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (10 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2472 times:
Yes PDX is on the ballot in AirTran's "Pick Our Next City" poll, but the earliest they would probably see service by FL would be next fall. The contract with Ryan Int'l could be extended until AirTran has enough 737s in the fleet to not need the A320s of Ryan Int'l. Until then, they could add PDX and do BWI-PDX, ATL-PDX, and maybe MCO-PDX. I think PDX or SEA could be added as they could put the 737s in service straight from Boeing, just ferry them over to PDX or SEA from BFI.
Airnondo From Moldova, joined May 2000, 241 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2373 times:
Portland does have a good sized asian population, and specifically Japanese & Chinese. Portland's japanese gardens are the best in the US and one of the Oregon's congressmen (david wu) is the 1st Chinese american in the US House; not to mention cargo ops. Not to be an advert. for pdx, but it doesn't seem you have backing behind your statement.
No doubt in my mind that a NW PDX-NRT 5x could be profitable.
As739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5930 posts, RR: 22 Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2348 times:
Srbmod-I doubt AirTran would expand to those flights. Alaska would have jumped all over some of these markets if the numbers showed it can be done. PDX is a weird bird, and with AS not starting trancon, I think it shows it may not be able to support flights other to major cities. That being said, AS may jump onto PDX-MCO with a 73G since MCO has showed wonderful loads from SEA.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
Leneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2311 times:
Portland is one step closer to recieving asia service..On new channel 8 tonight at 6:oo they are going to reveal which airline is scouting out gate space at the airport. If it true that Portland cannot support tran con flights, then why does Continental has a flight to Newark and delta has mutiple flights to Alanta? The bottom line is Alaska just has lost interest in Portland period!
StevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2246 times:
Leneld and Airnondo are right on...
PDX is close, not sure how close, but it's only a matter of time before nonstops to Asia return. The last governor and the current governor have both made trade visits to both China and Japan, and probably Korea too, to build interest in Oregon's agribusiness markets as well as high-tech. While not quite what SEA and SFO have, the Portland metro. area does have a significant Asian population, and demand has been strong ever since DL pulled out in 2001 to restore some level of service.
I wouldn't be surprised if either NW or some Asian airline started up 4-5x per week to PDX. With Oregon's economy showing signs it has a pulse (the unemployment rate has gone from about 8% to about 7.6% now) the potential is certainly there.
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2222 times:
There's signs that NW's interested in PDX-NRT -- for example, it's rumored the airline's in discussions with Airbus to expedite delivery of several A332. If the route were to happen, it'd likely fly alongside SEA-NRT as an A332... I'd expect NW to rely on AS feed, I wouldn't expect any additional NW service to PDX. (Even though PDX media has claimed that NW would get additional incentives for offering, say JFK-PDX once-daily with A319 to feed the flight, any additional route would be competing with NW's other t-pac service... in my example, JFK-PDX-NRT would compete with JFK-NRT n/s). FYI: SFO-NRT is the only t-pac route scheduled to move to the A332 despite what's written on a.net.
BTW, the SEA-HNL and SEA-OGG flights are likely B753, not A330, bound... NW has told its pilots it's going to ETOPS the B753 fleet for West Coast - Hawaii service, and the above routes are NW's lone remaining West Coast - Hawaii service...
Alexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1127 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2127 times:
About the 753 service SEA-HNL, and SEA-OGG.....
This seems crazy to me considering you cant get on these flights as it is with A DC10 via NW or 763's via HA.
A little note I read a while back said the the SEA-Hawaii market is the most underserved market that offers N/S service. It stated that the double daily NW flights were usually pascked and forget about the HA 763 to HNL or OGG. They asked why after HA lost capacity with the switch from the DC10 to the 763 a 2nd SEA-HNL flight wasnt added. The Answer was the SEA-OGG flight.
So, if NW goes with the 753, I sure hope they have double daily SEA-HNL.
But then I would ask, if you can fill two 753's, why waste the extra money on 2 753 flights instead of 1 747 flight?
Isnt the NW SEA-NRT running at like 90-95% load factor?
UA running close to the same??? Heard a rumor about a month ago from a UA employee here at SEA, UA was thinking about bringing the 744 back for the SEA-NRT?!?
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 50 Reply 24, posted (10 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2095 times:
I don't imagine we'll see a MEM-PDX flight. NW has been downgrading MEM to a mostly RJ operation (although mainliners still fly to the key leisure and business markets). MEM passengers going to NRT can do so via a quick and easy connection in MSP,SFO,SEA,LAX, etc. PDX-NRT would probably work on its own with an A332 w/o any connections.
Stephen in New Orleans
25 FoxBravo: PDX-NRT might not need any NW domestic connections, but don't forget it would likely be fed by a fair number of AS/QX flights from around the Northwes
26 As739x: LENALD- You missed my point. I stated "other then major cities". All those airline you stated are just flying to thier hubs on the other coast. When I
27 Paddy: wow. i figured that NW had given up on the idea after not hearing anything last month. it would be great to see an A332 in the new c/s at PDX! i'll ha