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Beirut Adds ILS To Runway 3  
User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Beirut International Airport is in the testing phase for an ILS for runway 3. The ILS will give pilots a more precision approach to the under bad weather conditions, as opposed to the VOR 03 approach from the Khaldeh (112.6) VOR which was previously in use. According to the Jeppensen NOTAM the ILS will be in testing up until December 14.

http://socrates.jeppesen.com/download/cht_notam/mes04.pdf

For those who don't understand what I just wrote above...Beirut's Airport is becoming more safe and aircraft will have an easier time landing in cloudy weather.  Smile



MEA321
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2148 times:

Runway 03 already has a CAT I ILS, perhaps they are upgrading it to a CAT II or CAT IIIA/B/C?

I know the ILS on runway 03 has been having problems and I think was turned off for quite some time. Perhaps they just fixed it or decided to replace it with a new ILS.

Runway 18 and runway 21 also both have CAT I ILS.

Runway 17 has CAT III ILS since it is the most used runway when it comes to landings.

Only 35 and 36 do not have an ILS because landings are not allowed on those ends because they are too close to the mountains.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

I just spoke to a friend of mine in Beirut and he told me that runway 03 has always had a CAT I ILS, but it's been having lots of problems lately.

So it looks like they are finally fixing it. Thanks for the update!

I assume they are upgrading it to at least CAT II or possibly CAT III so it can have autoland capability.

Possibly an airline that is considering serving Beirut in the future requested that the ILS be fixed before it starts service...

Who knows...

Runway 03 is only used for landings when the wind is coming from the north which isn't very common (usually only in bad weather). Most of the time, the wind is always coming from the south which is why runway 17 is the most heavily used runway.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineA320FO From Austria, joined Oct 2000, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2101 times:

BA,
I have no info of 17 having a CAT III ILS. I just checked my route documentation, which shows that all ILS equipped runways have a CAT I minimum only.
But the current CAT I minimum on all runways are quite high, averaging 400 feet above ground (AGL) on the "new" runways 03 and 17, and about 500 feet AGL on "old" 18. Also visibility requirements are higher than the basic CAT I minimum of 200 feet AGL and 550m visibility. This might well be due to the terrain on the eastern side of the airport, requiring the fairly high minimum due to obstacle clearance in case of missed approach.

Maybe the airport is now trying to get the minimum of the newer runways down to the basic CAT I minimum to improve availability in case of severe weather conditions?


User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2095 times:

In any case, visibility at BEY is relatively good all year roung, even when we get heavy showers. But I think 17 is CAT III, not that it is necessary at all.

User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2050 times:

Isn't rwy21 also used during heavy rains & winds?Incoming traffic flies over the city(right over my house);that was the case last monday when we had some showers & winds. Any clarification?

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

A320FO,

I think your documentation has incorrect info because this information is according to an air traffic controller who works for Beirut.

I also remember when runway 17 opened, they were talking so highly about it saying it is the first runway with autoland capabilities in Lebanon.

As I'm sure you know, CAT I doesn't support autoland so since they say it has autoland capabilities, it has to be at least CAT II.

But according to an air traffic controller, it has CAT III.

All of the other runways have CAT I though. Maybe with this runway 03 upgrade, it'll have CAT II or even CAT III.

I'll try to find out.

MEA310,

Yes they do. Runway 21 is equipped with CAT I which in most cases is sufficient. CAT II or CAT III would be nice to have, but very expensive, and not necessary on all the runways.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineA320FO From Austria, joined Oct 2000, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

BA,
I hope my documentation is up to date, as we use it to fly to Beirut (though currently suspended for winter, we'll be back with daily flights in summer!), but I stand to be corrected.
Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements.

A320FO


User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

I'm visiting the airport's tower next week hopefully,I'll try and come back with some useful information,&if possible photos.

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1925 times:

A320FO,

Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements.

Terrain?



Not a single building, or a grain of sand lies infront of runway 17. Just the Mediterranean sea.  Smile

It's a shame that Austrian Airlines was downgraded to only summer seasonal. It used to be year-round and in the summer would operate daily (rest of the year would be 5x weekly).

But this summer it was only 3x weekly and 2x weekly later on in the summer.

Regards

[Edited 2003-11-16 00:44:11]


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

BA,

OS will restart service in May with 2X weekly. The servive will increase to 5X in June and will become daily in July.

Sad.. I know.. but it's just the nature of the BEY market. Very low demand from NA and Europe during the winter.



User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

BEY is weakest in the winter, true.

The route was downgraded to seasonal as a result of the war in Iraq. Hopefully one day soon it will return to year-round.

Any idea if when it returns next summer, the intention is to operate it year-round?

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Thank you for that clarification BA, your information is greatly appreciated!

When I flew to Beirut two years ago on Alitalia I talked to the captain after the flight. The landing was on runway 3. In the cockpit he showed me the approach plate, it was (and I clearly remember) a published VOR procedure. VOR 03, using the Khaldeh VOR.

However, I didn't know that runway 3 had a CAT I ILS, that is completely new to me. It looks like the NOTAM for BEY must be indicating that the ILS is either being repaired or upgraded!



MEA321
User currently offlineYegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1723 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

First flight is scheduled for May 15 (2X).

Jumps to 3 flights the week after. Junps to 5 flights seconf week of June.

And then 6 flights a week the latter part of June and the last week of June it becomes daily.

By the end of September the service is then downgraded tro 3X per week. By November of next year, they will probably drop it again.

OS used to pick up a lot of passengers from Eatsren Europe and from Scandinavia. Now that Snowflake is operating to BEY, I guess there will be quite a bit of pressure on loads and yields. But you never know, still too early to see what they will do next year.





User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1849 times:

You're welcome MEA321.

Yegbey01,

I assume if they are planning to operate the route on a daily basis during the summer, then they probably are planning to operate the route year-round in the winter but on a reduced frequency obviously.

I'm just guessing. I hope they operate it next winter.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSalim From Lebanon, joined Jun 2001, 303 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1828 times:

"Maybe the ILS system on RWY 17 itself is technically capable of CAT III operations (a monitoring and reliability issue), but due to terrain around the airport the runway itself cannot support CAT III ops, due to obstacle clearance requirements."
You are right. this what a mea pilot, head of safety, told me. But the runway cannot support CATIII ops due to obstacle, but due to strong interferences comming from the city.



User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Any ILS system, whether CATI, II, or III can experience interference. In Beirut itself and down through Bir Hasssan along the final approach path coast there are several embassies that line the coast. Just from looking at these embassies you can see huge satellites and radio antennas on top of those buildings.

FM radio and satellite interference are major concerns for an ILS system. It doesnt affect the ILS for runway 17 extrememly, but it can prevent a CAT III ILS from supporting autoland capabilities. Any interference can cause an inaccuracy, and when you have a decision height of zero, there is no room for inaccuracy!

Besides that, this image will depict other causes of interference  Smile




MEA321
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Salim,

Thanks for that info. Long time no speak!  Smile

I hope they some how work out the issue about the interference regarding the ILS for runway 17.

CAT III is quickly becomming a standard for modern airports and an airport with CAT III capabilities is very attractive to any airline that wants to use Beirut as a transitting stop or as a hub or whatever.

I hope they can somehow try to work out the issue.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1725 times:

I know this topic might've ended,but I was wondering if rwy3 is already in use now with the CAT III installed? Because just a while ago I've been spotting planes approaching according to a new path,higher altitude..I was supposed to visit the tower today but something came up & had to cancel it.

Any info?

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
User currently offlineMEA321 From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

MEA310

According to the Mediterranean NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) the ILS for runway 03 is being either worked on, or upgraded. It does not say specifically. There was some speculation in this forum that CAT III was being installed. If this was the case then it would not be operational until December 14.

It takes a lot of time for testing and certificating for a new ILS system. However, a CAT III as opposed to a CAT I or II would not necessarily give a higher glide slope path. I will research to see if there were any updates to the aeronautical information for BEY.

MEA321




MEA321
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1684 times:

MEA310,

Exactly how does one visit the control tower? Can you simply make an appointment and ask to visit it? If so...then that's on my agenda for my next visit to Beirut.  Smile

Regarding runway 03. Before this upgrade, I know it was CAT I. All of BEY's runways are CAT I except for runway 17 which is CAT III but not certified for it due to interference from the city (I confirmed this by the way).

I assume they are at least upgrading runway 03 to a CAT II ILS. Maybe even CAT III, who knows.

But I can tell you that CAT III is extremely expensive, so if they go for CAT II, that's plenty enough.

Does anyone know how often runway 21 is used for landings?

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMEA310 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2002, 660 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1622 times:

BA

My friend's relative works at the tower,he managed to let us in.I'm not sure if anyone can get through without any "connections".I'll make sure to get some info as soon as I visit the airport.

MEA310



M5 Fastest Sedan On Earth
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