DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 4799 times:
With all the shortages of good commercial pilot jobs in the US, and the fact that many pilots are on the street, what's the next best option to fly larger jets? ...Other than the military, which is the path I'm currently working on starting.
I know there's many pilots on this forum from other nations, flying some of the US's equipment overseas. Just curious, how hard is it for a US citizen to get employed with a foreign carrier? (Ex, Cathay Pacific, Excel, charter companies, etc etc etc etc). Idea is, I wouldn't mind moving somewhere else, where hiring isn't as tough as it is in the US, and just fly, make an earlier career in the heavys.
Would appreciate any info about yall's airlines and pilot hiring process, hours, standards, etc. Not sure what overseas requirements are on ratings, equivalence? ...Will be actively looking to be hired somewhere in a couple years. Thanks dudes.
Proudtoflyaa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 4708 times:
I actually go to Jacksonville University, where DCA is
As do I, and I did my instrument and commercial with them.
In actuality it is probably the best way to get into the right seat of a jet if you want to go that way (though lately people are going to Chautauqua with truly horrible wages).
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6211 posts, RR: 74 Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4696 times:
Warning: This post could be an overkill
Well, you could work in Indonesia...
(Figures in USD per month, salaries, and conditions are based on conversations in the past 12 months with those involved, hence not guaranteed).
732 Mandala F/O: 250 - 1500
732 Mandala Capt: 1500 - 4000
737 Garuda F/O: 500 - 1500
737 Garuda Capt: 1500 - 3000
727 Jatayu F/O: 300 - 1000
727 Jatayu Capt: 800 - 2500
DC10 Garuda F/O: 1000 - 2000
DC10 Garuda Capt: 1750 - 4000
Fokker 28 Merpati F/O: 150 - 500
Fokker 28 Merpati Capt: 500 - 1500
Fokker 100 Merpati F/O: 250 - 1000
Fokker 100 Merpati Capt: 750 - 2000
Fokker 100 Pelita F/O: 500 - 1500
Fokker 100 Pelita Capt: 1000 - 3000
On the other end...
Cessna 402 F/O: 250 - 700 USD a month (Survey rating +50%)
Cessna 402 Capt: 500 - 1000 USD a month (Survey rating +50%)
Lion Air MD80.
F/O Local: 500 - 1500 USD a month
F/O Expat: 3500 USD a month
Capt Local: 1500 - 3500 USD a month
Capt Expat: 5000 - 6000 USD a month
General Entry Requirement F/O and chances of getting an interview:
300Hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR: 25% (after a 7 month wait)
500Hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR: 25% (after a 5 month wait)
500Hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR including 150hrs Multi: 50%
500Hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR including 150hrs Turbine: 75%
500Hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR, Type rating (727, 732, 733): 75%
Get employed by Garuda, never leave until you're Captain of a type, otherwise when you go back, you start again from Second Officer!
Foreign Pilots under Expat contracts need experience.
Foreign Pilots under local contracts, need to get temporary residency permits costing 100 USD a month (Hence you get a lower salary).
All applicants, getting your own type rating at your cost increases your chances significantly, and promotion will be faster.
JAR/FAA licences and ratings need to be locally endorsed.
Expect 60 - 90hrs standard. There's a 110hr monthly limit and 115hrs under exemption (need to preapply). Annual limit is 1000hrs.
Rostering: Garuda fortnightly, Lion fortnightly, Mandala weekly, Others are normally monthly. Jatayu has a reputation to make your roster basically... 7 day standbys a week ! LOL
The US pilots we have here are mainly Lion MD82s on expat contract, 727 pilots and flight engineers (yes, we need more F/Es), missionary pilots flying in the bush, bush cargo pilots, and charters (Travira's Caravans, some bizjets, and more bush planes!).
Fly here, expect to live here. And no long haul foreign pilots on long term contract unless you're taking "local" status.
If you want more info, feel free to inquire...
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4631 times:
Naw, your post wasn't overkill at all..it was very interesting to see the options over there!
The Lion Air MD-82 job sounds interesting...any more specifics on it? College degree required? What is the local/expat? Pilot base, how many, and how many apply? Looks like quite a pay difference. How's the cost of living over there? Tell me all you can bout the Lion Air prospects
Shopping around for options, alternatives to flying RJ's with US carriers! (would much rather go overseas and fly larger equipment)
AlitaliaORD From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 242 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4567 times:
i know for United (even though its hard to get a job at a U.S. carrier) you have to live a maximum of two connections away. so if you lived in Sydney but needed to operate BOS-LHR you would go from SYD-LAX-JFK-BOS but if you made more than 2 connections you wouldnt qualify for the route
Joy To The World, All The Boys and Girls, Joy to the Fishes in the Deep Blue Sea, Joy to You and Me
B747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4535 times:
One thing to remember - in almost all cases - expatriates (mostly captains) are hired with "experience"... do not expect a job in a country xyz with zero time on a type of aircraft. First officers are generally local pilots...
I got hired in Argentina, strictly showing experience (not even log books) but statements about hours on 747, and letter from PanAm and Cargolux, which were my former employers. No question was asked about education. My licence (which was US/FAA) got validated in Argentina.
At that time, my Spanish was poor... it did not matter. I got a 20 minutes interview, and a proficiency check in a 747 simulator... then got hired... They made my contract permanent after I took Argentina citizenship (by marriage).
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4453 times:
Thanks for explaining the expat thing Skipper!
So seeing as I'd probably have 0 time on something like a 737 or MD, if I were to get hired to fly em, my pay would be lousy then, as a first timer? Would be worth it, to me, to get to fly and build the hours.
Good point about the language barrier..since English *is* the international language, would there be any disadvantage in most cases? You lucked out with the Spanish thing Skipper!
Any more gouge on the Lion Air or any other companies with lower hiring hours? Sounds desperate, I know
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6211 posts, RR: 74 Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4411 times:
Lion? Well, for all the airlines, no college degree required, all they care about is the specs I got above... for expats and locals.
Pilot bases for Lion is in Jakarta. Expat pilot stay in the Hilton, locals at their own homes. Transportation to and from airport is provided (MPV). Overnight stations are Surabaya, Medan, Kuala Lumpur and Manado. Pilots that are local to those cities still go from Jakarta base, although they can opt for more overnights in those cities.
Cost of living? Depends, if you want an expatriate lifestyle, don't bother unless you're earning 2000 USD monthly! I myself with a house and car spend anything between 100 - 500 USD a month. Rentals are expensive here.
There's currently a surplus of pilots lacking type rating. Lion will take anyone with an MD82 rating... If you don't have jet time in your bag, don't bother going for expat rates!
(Skip, interestingly Lion hires a lot of gaucho F/Os from Aerolinas and Austral MD82s... Now I'm sure you can imagine what's running to the Local Captain's mind when he flies with an F/O that's with half his hours and earns twice as he does and stays in a 5* hotel everynight?).
My guess is, here,if you don't have 500hrs, CPL, Multi, IFR and 150hrs Multi and/or Turbine, it'll be difficult unless you want to pay for your type rating... Batavia's policy is like that! You enter on 732, and they'll move you up to 734... but no 732 rating, pay for one!.
Hiring foreign pilots are going to be difficult on the airlines for the next 2 years, as the government wants the airlines to take up surplus pilots first... There are hundreds of guys with CPL, Multi,IFRs... but a 732 or MD82 rating is 21,000 USD... which is worth 20 - 50 month worth your starting salary!
Here, if you want to go on zero hours start, well, I guess you have to start with the small ones, and very very few people get in. It's best to go with a (reputable) agent and you get to move around.
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Ejazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 705 posts, RR: 35 Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4367 times:
I think you have to be made aware that outside the US the FAA license is not highly regarded. There are some exceptions such as Saudi Arabia and Japan for example. You mention Cathay Pacific who I know would not look at you with an FAA license without previous heavy jet experience. Singapore Airlines and the CAAS again would require high hours of heavy jet command time for an FAA license holder to be considered. The licenses of choice appear to be those obtained via a training system with similiar requirements to the JAA license now and the UK, Australian and similiar CAA courses in the past
B747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4285 times:
Our friend Ejazz mentioned a true fact... about US/FAA licences...
While this is less today, than it was in the past 20-30 years, the FAA licences are not much respected in the rest of the world, as JAR licence holders do show consistently with better training (practical and theory knowledge) than the typical holders of FAA certificates.
The problem comes from the nature of the training in USA "pay here - get licence there" tradition, as you are virtually buying the licence... Enrolling for training at a JAR or equivalent facility, is no certainty of success if you are not meeting high standards. Passing exams are generally requiring much higher technical knowledge. This in turn insures an airline that if they hire a pilot with such a background, he/she will have good prospects in passing the tests to complete training in, say a 737 as a first officer.
FAA and JAR are equal, as far as advanced/type rating training. A pilot trained to fly a 737 in a JAR nation, or in a facility under FAA supervision, have at that level, the same standards.
B747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4226 times:
Regarding that JAR/FAA difference in standards...
Let me copy here a few questions about altimetry that you would have to answer at the new hire exam with my airline. These are essay type questions, we do not have "multiple choice" here - Most FAA CPL or even ATPL would not have a clue... Pilots trained to JAR standards know the answers.
From an exam in 2001...
1. You wish to land with a QNH... the airport TDZE is 285 feet, but only receive a QFE from the tower which is 993 hPa... what is the QNH...?
2. Transition altitude of this airport is 3,000 feet. Transition level is FL 50. Can you file an IFR flight plan at 4,000 feet (or FL 40) for a short flight... why...?
3. A QNH altimeter setting is given to you as 760 mm'Hg... what is it in hPa units...?
4. What is the level of a weather chart printed for 400 mB/hPa...
Friends who hold a FAA licence, could you handle these questions, for a new hire exam for 737 first officer position with us...? Getting you license in USA may be a solution, but I would recommend you to study the subjects of theory i.e. from CAA in UK...
B747Skipper From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4070 times:
Well, Mandala499 - nobody volunteered answers - they are:
1. QNH is 1003 mB/hPa since TDZE is 285 feet (or 10 mB/hPa)...
2. You cannot fly "level (horizontal flight) under IFR in the Transition Layer. When leaving (climbing from) 3000 feet Trans.Alt, you are supposed to select QNE on your altimeter... If you leave (descending from) FL050 you are supposed to select the current QNH... So 2 airplanes flying at 4000 feet / FL040 would be at different "heights"... quite a problem.
3. 760mm is simply 1013,2 mB/hPa or 29.92 inches...
Settings may be given in mm in the CIS or China...