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Airbus To Discuss 7E7 Rival  
User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

This week's Flight says that Airbus is planning a set of meetings to discuss a competitor to the Boeing 7E7.

Airbus is planning meetings in Atlanta, Frankfurt and Hong Kong and is considering both all-new and A330-derivative configurations.

Airbus is believed to be looking again at the planned A305 or A30X configuration, originally designed to replace the A300 and A310.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

No doubt they're discussing it/planning it... but the real question is what (aside from here-and-there tweaks on the A332) can they actually do about it, as most of their finances/development is and will be focused on the A388 for the near future.

User currently offlineIrishpower From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 385 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

I doubt that Airbus has the time or money to study a new plane. All of their time and money is tied up in the A380.

My guess is that they will tinker with the A330--put new engines on it etc...

Down the road (say in 2010-2012) I see them developing a new class of mid size aircraft.




User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4477 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4119 times:

They're also entering the game late. And of course they have the financing of the A380 project on their shoulders as well.

This makes it significantly harder for them to put a ton of development into a brand new airplane. I'd predict that Boeing will remain ahead of airbus with it's 7e7 for a long time to come.

I suspect Airbus may need financial help from france and germany as well to fund the new project, if it happens.


User currently offlineAmmunition From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2002, 1065 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

would say airbus have played it very smart- the 7e7 has no firm orders, it only has interest and if airbus can get in on the game now, they will be level pegging, if not ahead of boeing as airlines will wait to see whats on offer from both manufacturers.


Saint Augustine- 'The world is a book and those who do not travel, read only 1 page'
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

How far behind in timing is Airbus on this? When did Boeing really start working on the 7e7?


Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

They had the A318, A340-500 and A340-600 going alongside the A380. Now they have the A380 only. Does this mean they can venture in a new project? Maybe they can.

Boeing should know by now not to underestimate Airbus.


User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3874 times:

Ah, don't forget that Airbus Military also has a "little" project on its hands...




Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2218 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3817 times:

I heard a rumor that Airbus has a counterfeit printing operation hidden underneath its plant in Toulouse. This gives them the ability to launch three new airframes simultaneously which has never before been possible in commercial aviation.

User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3800 times:

If Airbus can count on government "Loans" to fund full-scale development of a new airliner, Boeing might have a problem. There is no way that Boeing can compete with the EU governments, in terms of R&D funding.

One other possibility - this might be an example of "vaporware". The idea is to tell everyone that you will build something as good or better than the 7E7, and potential clients for the 7E7 might hold off on their orders in anticipation of that product even if it doesn't exist yet.

Charles


User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3728 times:

Cfalk, re: "vaporware" - just like Boeing and the A380, yes?  Smile

User currently offlineTekelberry From United States of America, joined May 2003, 1459 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3683 times:

would say airbus have played it very smart- the 7e7 has no firm orders

Well that makes sense considering Boeing can't take any orders until the board of directors approves it.


User currently offlineAreopagus From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Cfalk: If Airbus can count on government "Loans" to fund full-scale development of a new airliner, Boeing might have a problem. There is no way that Boeing can compete with the EU governments, in terms of R&D funding.

Check out the Seattle Post-Intelligencer's article, Boeing had to have 7E7 help, experts say, which carries this gem:

The Japanese Aircraft Development Corp. has formally asked the government for financial help to support the 7E7 program. Most of the 7E7 work is going to Japan's big three heavy machinery makers -- Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Fuji Heavy industries.

Note that most of the 7E7 fuselage and wings will be produced in Japan, and a substantial part of the rear fuselage produced in Italy. Boeing divisions will produce the nose, vertical tail, some wing parts, and the wing-body fairing.

My attempt at Airbus spin: Those hypocrites are milking governments for subsidies wherever they can get them, so what are they complaining about?

My attempt at Boeing spin: Big bad Airbus has captured more than half the market using government subsidies, so we'll be crushed like a bug unless we do whatever it takes to compete.

My attempt at American worker spin: Government subsidies in Japan and Europe are destroying American jobs.

My attempt at American taxpayer spin: Since so much value in a Boeing jetliner is imported, and so much value in an Airbus jetliner is American, there is no real reason to favor Boeing over Airbus in the next round of tankers




User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3581 times:

My attempt at American taxpayer spin

Shouldnt that be more along the lines of: "Huh? They're buying Airplanes? For what, dont they already have some?!"


User currently offlineFlyLAX From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3520 times:

Im not the smartest man in the world, but it seems to me that Airbus is just out to get Boeing for whatever reason.

User currently offlineBoingGoingGone From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Guess they figured they won't just be able to slap on a set of engines.

User currently offlineManni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 23
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

If this is true and Airbus goes ahead with their 3E3  Big grin the A380 looks al of a sudden even more attractive to potential customers. Provided that the new aircraft will be a family member of Airbus' existing products.

did someone mention vaporware? I'd say the 7E7, 747-500 and 747-600 are pretty good examples of that.

FlyLAX,

How about competition, remaining the worlds biggest civil airliner manufacturer in the 100+ seats category, and pleasing their shareholders as a reason to get Boeing?  Insane

Anyway great news all together!



SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3811 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Manni: and the Sonic Cruiser!





All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

Airbus has lost about a year or so maybe two on the 7E7. That's a while.

It is certainly not too early to get started on this, and Airbus has sufficient resources to do it. The A380 is being built now - the early concept engineers are free to work on other projects.

N


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3256 times:

I'm not sure Airbus needs to respond just yet to the 7E7. The 332 is selling very well and the detailed performance stats of the 7E7 suggest that 7E7 & 332 might be competitive with the 7E7 having a slight edge. Airbus might do well to milk 332 sales in the meantime.

Neil.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

Greedy fools cannot have their cake and eat it @ the same time, of course who says they are goning to do it now?

Boeing is making the 7E7 and Airbus is making the A380, by the times these planes are either well-deveolped or nearing "replacement time", bothe companies will have planes ready for it.

by about 2020, expect an A380 replacement/competitor by Boeing and a 7E7 competitor/replacement by Airbus.

Besides a plane is not completely replace until either an airline or the company drops it off.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Airbus is already outselling Boeing and they having a very comprehensive lineup, so why would they need to design a rival for the 7E7? The 7E7 is about as big as their A330.

User currently offlineBoeing nut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

As Bill Murray once said in "Caddyshack", I have to laugh".

Airbus now says they are discussing a 7E7 rival. This from a company that said earlier the 7E7 was a non-factor.

Crap or get off the pot guys.......  Yeah sure



User currently offlineFutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2602 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2957 times:

Can Airbus afford to work on the A380 and design a 7e7 rival?

Personally Im hoping the 7e7 blows Airbus away.



Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

Looks like Airbus finally realized that the 7E7 is for real and, more importantly, it's a very big threat to them. I believe the 7E7 will be a huge success!

25 Gigneil : The best time to improve on a product line is when its at its peak. That way you have the development cycle finishing up right around when the downtur
26 AvObserver : "If Airbus can count on government "Loans" to fund full-scale development of a new airliner, Boeing might have a problem. There is no way that Boeing
27 Qb001 : If this is true, it goes against what this Airbus salesman - what's his name again - said in a recent interview that putting new engine technology wil
28 Lehpron : "Can Airbus afford to work on the A380 and design a 7e7 rival?" They are not going to go against it now; if they do it will be after both companies ha
29 AvObserver : "If this is true, it goes against what this Airbus salesman - what's his name again - said in a recent interview that putting new engine technology wi
30 Planemaker : AvObserver: "otherwise the law of diminishing returns (sales) will eventually overtake the A332, even if it gets 'tweaked'. It will be very interestin
31 N79969 : Airbus has to respond, at least in word, to the 7E7. This is not surprising Sure Boeing did not build the 747-500/747-600/Sonic Cruiser etc; But BCAG
32 Gigneil : Ugh. Could we possibly discuss the nifty products for once, and what ideas Airbus might have, as opposed to the politics of the products? Nobody here
33 Shenzhen : I'm sure Airbus will try and offer something to offset early sales of the shorter 7E7 version. Expect them to offer lots of pictures and concepts, but
34 RayChuang : Let's face it folks. I think Airbus has discovered a major problem where they don't have a true replacement for the A300B4 and A310 airliners. The A33
35 Joni : Airbus has looked a new 7e7 size product for a while now, and even offered one version ("335") to Lufthansa and SIA. It's not as if they're just now
36 MD-11 forever : @AvObserver: When you say that: " The 7E7 will be 50% composites, an unprecented total. It should be and must be a lot lighter than other aircraft its
37 Leskova : Looking at history, will the fact that the 7e7 will be available first really be that much of an advantage? If Airbus doesn't waste time, they could h
38 Moolies : Althou Airus did manage to role out the A345 and A346 at the same time as developing the A380 they already did have the basic structure of the A340 wh
39 KEESJE : A short / medium range A330 version can be ready before the 7E7 if Airbus wants so, I think. A lighter, shorter wing / landing gears & new engines wil
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