Qantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3 Posted (9 years 7 months 2 days ago) and read 7135 times:
What do people think of KL's new Sepang airport? It's such a gorgeous and impressive piece of infrastructure but no one wants to fly there except MH! There have been a whole string of airlines that have pulled out including BA and Qantas leaving MH with a virtual monopoly, but not exactly the 'hub' the govt was hoping for. Airlines seem to be consolidating at Singapore's changi just 45 mins flying time south of KL or further north at Hong kong, SIN and CLK seem to be further establishing themselves as Asia's premier hubs.
I know that QF has a HUGE hub through Singapore. From SIN, they fly to:
SYD
MEL
PER
BNE
LHR
HKG
Denpaser
Jarkarta
CDG(paris)
Frankfurt
Cairns (australian airlines)
and used to (pre SARS): mumbai, ho chi minh, rome (FCO)
777MAS From Malaysia, joined Sep 2003, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6946 times:
We'll need to see this in its proper context - a new airport was definitely needed when Subang started getting crowded. But then, Sepang is rather oversized and pax movement hadn't been enough - of course, with some doublespeak, the Malaysian govt. could convince us all that its size was after considering growth and what nots in THE FUTURE......
Major airlines like BA, QF, LH have pulled out since Sepang's opening. The new ones to fly there are relatively unknown like Qatar Airways, Yemenia, etc. Unfortunately for KUL, it's sandwiched between 2 very strategic hubs like SIN and BKK. Offering incentives like reduced/free landing fees didn't have the desired effect. There are other strategic aspects, like connectivity, that the govt. perhaps hadn't considered!
On the plus side, though, if you're a passenger, you won't have to put up with crowded terminals, long queues, etc. Let's thank the Malaysian govt. for that! But then, one suspects that the construction of the new airport had something to do with national pride, nay, ego. Or perhaps the ego of a certain leader.
And to think that before the currency crisis struck in mid-1997, plans were afoot to build a scaled-down version of KLIA Sepang further up north, in the Penang/Kedah region - for crying out loud, there were at least 2 decently-functioning airports (PEN and AOR) up there!!! Now that would be the real white elephant.......
Qantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6912 times:
I often wondered why QF pulled out it's KL service and never really gave it a decent go. And even when it flew there, there was no direct flight....it was via Sydney. Why would you when you could go non-stop with MH. Now MH has double dailies Mel-KL with 100% of the route to themselves. I spose QF and BA had so much invested in Singapore that it made sense to just consolidate there. There are heaps and HEAPS of malaysians in melbourne and syd. And the fact that MH is adding flights is a loss of potential px to QF.
Yes, I definedtly think that the size of the airport had alot to do with a certain leader's ego. Thank goodness he's gone. Don't reply to that, 777MAS-wouldn't want you to get shot or anything!
Cfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6908 times:
I haven't been to KL since 2001, but the thing I remember most about that airport was that it was way-the-f&ck far away from town. Have they gotten that shuttle train service going yet?
Ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4664 posts, RR: 27 Reply 4, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6866 times:
I second that comment about how bad the airport in Sepang was needed. If anyone of you have been to Subang, you would have understood why KLIA was a very welcoming sight. For such a large country like Malaysia and a HUGE capital city like KL (consisting of several townships in the Klang Valley), SZB was just such an embarrasment and a sorry excuse for an airport. The pathetically tiny international terminal, also one in which tourist mostly arrive in was seriously outdated and struggled to cope with the influx of traffic. And don't get me started on the aesthetics department which was sorely lacking. What kind of image would that have potrayed for Malaysia? And SZB only has ONE runway, mind you.
Therefore, with KLIA, all I can say is "at last, a breadth of fresh air...". The expansive surroundings are a welcome sight after an overnight flight and it is certainly not a pain in the a$$ to use. I hated to navigate through the crowded SZB's terminals because it reminded me of some rundown airport in a sub-Saharan town ruled by a corrupted general.
Needless to say, MAS Golden Club (largest in the world) on the satellite terminal really puts other airline lounges to shame. Not even her closest rival Singapore Airlines can claim that they have an airline lounge that beautiful and large on their home turf in Changi.
Still, with the airlines pulling out, more exotic ones began to appear. In addition to what 777MAS has mentioned, Lion Air, Uzbekistan Airways, Air Macau and Xiamen Airlines also inaugurated flights to KUL not too long ago. While these might not be major players in the market, MAS does not have the problem filling up the planes to LHR, SYD, MEL, PER, FRA or to whatever destinations major carriers have pulled out from.
Unfortunately, bad timing has hit the airport many times. Right after they were opened, the Asian economic crisis struck in 1998. When everything was thought to have bottomed out and recovery was in the horizon, 9-11 occurred. As if that was not bad enough, SARS and the Iraq war was served as a double whammy special that no one bargained for. So give KLIA time to flourish and shine, which I am sure they would because of their excellent infrastructure and connectivity to their surroundings.
Competition wise, unfortunately BKK and SIN remain the traditional stopover points for the Kangaroo route, more so for SIN with such deep historical ties. Hence, the preference to hub though those airports are a habit which airlines are unlikely to break unless a miracle happens. So KUL can only rely on MAS for now to run these flights for now.
Despite what many say about Malaysia, one cannot deny the speed of their development is nothing short of outstanding and something the ex-PM Mahathir can be proud of achieving.
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
Qantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6835 times:
But seeing as there aren't any carriers rushing to sepang, what are they going to do with all that empty space and unused counters...is it always going to feel so cold and empty?
Ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4664 posts, RR: 27 Reply 6, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6819 times:
On the contrary, KLIA's counters does get pretty busy in the early mornings and from 6pm till about 9pm. Just check out the pics from my latest flight on MAS and you'll see that the check-in area in KLIA is teeming with people.
But I must say it is pretty "cold and empty" in the afternoons where the check in staff are just sitting around and swapping flies. Hahahaha!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
MAS A330 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6721 times:
Yes the shuttle train service has been going for quite a while now! 28 mins to the airport from the KL CAT.
I agree, that a new airport was needed. SZB was indeed very crowded. Its much like BKI today. I remember having to wait a good 30 mins for a bay to open up, which was on the cargo/maintainence side of the airfield.
The new airport is excellent. When it first opened, I remember visiting when it just opened and it was teeming with activity. But soon, the crisis struck. Economy went down, and many of the big airlines pulled out. BA, LH, QF, SU and the like. Now there are only two airlines from Europe operating to KUL, OS and KL. Most of the airlines operating there are Asian. Sometimes the only airline you can see is MH.
KUL, despite the good infrastructure, technology and architecture is not getting the response it expected. However, whenever I step into KUL, I still feel proud to have such an airport and what our nation has achieved.
Business is slowly picking up in KUL, and maybe one day, you never know, KUL may be a world-famous hub.
Sq_pilot From Singapore, joined May 2000, 80 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6547 times:
FYI, the airport was built not for certain leader ego. Oh wait a minute, unless you are really into TIME, Business Week, Newsweek, IHT and now defunct Asiaweek reports... then I have no comment. Oh yea, I have some fact for the airport that you called built for a leader ego or a white elephant airport:- BTW, no political non senses.
- The KLIA masterplan which includes Sepang International Circuit, home of the Formula 1 Malaysian Petronas Grand Prix, generates more than half billion MYR or MYR500 million per year. Ever wonder why China and Bahrain want to host the F1 race? That's not includes the MotoGP and JapanGT Tour. So the project is white elephant huh? Is it wasting a tax payer money or in fact is it a wise investment?
- Do tell me, in what year, the airport, the what so called white elephant airport, record a decrease in pax arrival and cargo handling?
- Or if yea, do they report a profits or losses?
- The airport was built to caters 25 mil. pax. anually, currently 17 mil (correct me i'm wrong) was built for the next 100 years and it can be upgrade to cater more pax. Economically, the cost of the airport expansion in the next 100 years can be reduce. Because, the space, land, and everything was or is there. Next beside, KLIA current STB, there are huge space for the second Satellite Terminal Building for future development. Peek into the future or don't you ever plan your future life. E.g LHR, limited room for expansion, to expand the old SZB it will cost more money and tax payer because there are many residential, commercial area within the old airport. Definately will cost a lot of money to buy a private property. The airport was built far a way from the city (KL) to reduce noise pollution, but you must remember, the centre of Malaysian admin was in Putrajaya nowadays, not so far away from the airport.
- Small project can be mega/expansive project if the gov/you/everybody doesn't have money to built/pay it.
-The airport was built before the asian financial crisis but was open on that period. And yet the MYR 9 billion airport does not harm the gov budget and yet malaysian economic grows steadily.
-It boast tourism and for your information Malaysia is the 3rd most visited nation in Asia-Pacific region (including Australia, New Zealand and the pacific) after China and Hong Kong. Go to World Tourism Org and buy the report. By the year 2020, Malaysia will be in the top 10 (currently in the top 20) most visited nation in the world. So, the airport is a small part of the mission.
- Economically, the project increase land-value of the surrounding area and genarates new growth for small township surrounding the airport vicinity. It boast local economy, for instance, the KLIA ekspres and etc.
- Oh by the way, KLM abandoned SYD, MEL and OZ routes in favour of KUL. What a pity. And dude, KUL was built not to attract QF, QF is just another airlines.
Maskargo From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2003, 181 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6505 times:
sq_pilot is right on the money..
before the asian financial crisis in 1997, and before the opening up of china's airports and the emergence of dubai... SZB (then the 'real' KUL) was the fastest growing airport in Asia-handling 17-18 million at its peak in 1996. KLIA's opening could have have been at a worse time as they others have said. First the financial crisis, then wars against terror, SARS and Dubya's crusade against the muslims....all these put a dent into KUL's expansion plans.
The biggest mistake the government made was to put the KLIA express train on hold.... that made KLIA less attractive to many passengers, particularly to those who were flying to domestic destinations. (some people say that the major airlines' mass exodus was in a way related to this problem)
but KLIA has grown from year to year.....yeah, the majors are not returning just yet, but we are pulling in the smaller airlines.....which is a step in the right way. (there;s the rumours of LH, AZ and many more reappearing at our doorsteps).... and since we're the 17th largest trading nation in the world, business traffic will return! just wait and see..
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 10, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6480 times:
At least it's future-proof. Beirut is another city with an over-sized airport, but again, it won't run out of capacity soon after ribbon-cutting. And in fact traffic to BEY has picked up enormously since the new terminal was built, as seen by innumerably recent threads - now served by over 40 airlines. I'm sure KL will continue to grow it's business the same way.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Qantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3 Reply 11, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6385 times:
Interesting replies..I certainly didn't mean to offend you, sq-pilot about KUL, which is obviously a very nice airport. Just interested in some debate about why and what to do about it's emptiness, and how come it hasn't been able to attract airlines to fly there. I only mention Qantas because I know alot about it and it is my home carrier, and I always thought because there are so many malaysians in melbourne, that they should have given KUL a better go instead of leaving it all up to MH now which has a virtual monopoly on the route. So don't take things too personally.
I think all the points you made (except for all the Mahatir 2020 propaganda) were very valid. There's no question that the current airport is a vast improvement on Subang, but rather one of overcapacity now and at least, as Cedarjet says, you will be prepared for the future.
I also think that had Malaysia acted sooner to build KLIA when Changi was being built, the situation would have been very different. The Singaporeans were, as usual very quick on the ball and smart in getting Changi up and running when most of the region's infrastructure was below par, and since then they have always remained one step ahead of the game...upgrading changi constantly and at the right time to attract airlines and build what is probably the most efficient and seamless air transport hub in the world today. Despite the air travel downturn, for instance, they are already in the final stages of planning for terminal 3.
Once you get a bunch of airlines leaving together, like what happened to KUL, it's hard to attract them back as you lose critical mass; it's not a hub anymore.
Aussieboggie From Australia, joined Sep 2000, 92 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6369 times:
Point well taken Sq_pilot! Bravo. I love KUL.
Both SIN and BKK gets traffic due to hub-hub (alliance) flights/connections. But for MH, flying all alone, carrying most of the traffic to KUL is rather impressive.
What are they going to do with all the empty space and unused counters… is it always going to feel so cold and empty?
QantasClub, it is business as usual, But I heard the airport management will soon introduces the Lap Dance show on selected empty and unused counters. Do not forget to pick the best counter and spot! And yet, if you still feel so cold and empty, feel free to bring an extra cloth … considering Malaysia hot/humid tropical climate. and remember not to exceeding the excess baggage allowance too!
Sq_pilot From Singapore, joined May 2000, 80 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6298 times:
Whose decision not to flying MEL-KUL v.v? MH decision? Malaysian Gov decision? Mahathir Decision?
If you want a chunk of MEL-KUL market, ask Mr. Dixon to start MEL-KUL flight instead. But I’m sure, Mr Howard (the Deputy Sheriff in Asia) is not so happy with the news. Or perhaps, QF can't afford to fly to KUL, because they can't simply beat MH service. Oh yea… I almost forgot QF is busy protecting its “lucrative” route namely SYD-LAX route. A virtual monopoly?????? I dunno.
when most of the region's infrastructure was below par
There you go again. If the Malaysian Gov or Mahathir decided to built the White Elephant airport in the 70s, when most Malaysian living under poverty line, what will you call the project/airport then? Mega Super Duper White Mammoth Airport?
Singapore cans do/did so, because they manage to handle their tiny island-state nation with only 2 mil (est. in 1970s) citizens firmly, their infrastructure is above ASEAN average long since 1950s, Singapore has been traditional financial capital of South East Asia long since 1900. That’s why they’re able to come out with something like Changi earlier than any other ASEAN nations. Until early 1990 Singapore is the only “Rich” country in South East Asia apart of oil rich Brunei. So what’s your point dude?
For your information, Changi was built in mid 1970s, while KLIA in late 1990s. that is 2 decades apart. Back then, the very first KUL airport was in Sungai Besi, then moved to SZB before to the current KUL. So, where is the Malaysian act sooner part??????? I am confusing with your "opinion" statement.
I dont take it personally, it's fact. And fact remains a fact.
Qantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (9 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 6100 times:
Sq-pilot:
1) The decision to pull out of KUL was made by the Qantas Board in conjuction with BA. The two airlines announced their decision a few weeks of each other. It had nothing to do with Mahathir or the Malaysian or Australia Governments, purely a business decision.
2)What does the SYD-LAX route have to do with the discussion at all? It is currently a duopoly with UA and QF but with the free trade agreement with Singapore-SQ may get a slice of the route soon.
3)John Howard (our deputy sheriff) couldn't give a rats arse about Malaysia or Mahatir or any other recalcitrant. If you notice, he usually doesn't bother to respond or reply to Mahathir's embarassingly bigoted rantings.
4) You have missed my point entirely about the timeframe of KUL and Changi-the reasons you gave for Malaysia not being able to build a new airport earlier are true and that is exactly what I'm saying..that this delay (whether they were able to or not) cost them the opportunity to grab the premier air-hub status that Changi now holds onto.
5)Take a chill pill.
9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (9 years 7 months 23 hours ago) and read 6035 times:
Singapore cans do/did so, because they manage to handle their tiny island-state nation with only 2 mil (est. in 1970s) citizens firmly, their infrastructure is above ASEAN average long since 1950s, Singapore has been traditional financial capital of South East Asia long since 1900. That’s why they’re able to come out with something like Changi earlier than any other ASEAN nations. Until early 1990 Singapore is the only “Rich” country in South East Asia apart of oil rich Brunei. So what’s your point dude?
Singapore was poor until the late 1970s, when things started picking up.
Airbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 10 Reply 16, posted (9 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 5973 times:
Qantasclub: Just wondering, how often have you visited Malaysia? and KLIA for that matter?
"It's such a gorgeous and impressive piece of infrastructure but no one wants to fly there except MH!"
- Get your facts straight, yes a few of the major airlines pulled out of KUL, but that doesn't make it "no one wants to fly there except MH!". Obviously it is MH, the national carriers' hub. Apart from them, there are 40+ airlines (major and regional airlines) flying into KUL. It's just that you don't know.
"There have been a whole string of airlines that have pulled out including BA and Qantas leaving MH with a virtual monopoly, but not exactly the 'hub' the govt was hoping for."
- MH with virtual monopoly? You're wrong. MH competes with many airlines on many of their routes. Domestically with AirAsia and internationally with other airlines including those carrying pax to their hub for onward connecting flights. MH only has monopoly on NON-STOP routes to places where those majors have previouslly flown, e.g. LHR. MH competes with OS/NG on flights to SYD and with VN for flights to SGN/HAN, for example. SQ is a major competitor carrying Malaysian pax to SIN for flights to their final destination at a much lower fare than MH's.
"and used to (pre SARS): mumbai, ho chi minh, rome (FCO)"
- AFAIK, QF only flew to SGN on a charter basis. Never scheduled. I stand corrected on this statement.
"Yes, I definedtly think that the size of the airport had alot to do with a certain leader's ego. Thank goodness he's gone."
- Read many replies above. The size of KLIA will become useful in the future looking at the current growth rate. Whether or not he's gone shouldn't matter to you. Many Malaysians elected him. He has done some good and bad. But it is for sure that he is to be commended for the development of Malaysia in the past 15-20 years.
"Don't reply to that, 777MAS-wouldn't want you to get shot or anything!"
- What are you talking about? Malaysia is not a communist country and we are free to say what we want (of course to a certain extent where some thoughts are better off kept to ourselves but this is not subj to discussion here since it is off-topic).
"But seeing as there aren't any carriers rushing to sepang, what are they going to do with all that empty space and unused counters...is it always going to feel so cold and empty?"
- Don't you worry. We know what to do with those spaces. As for the counters, please do notice that the check-in islands are all pretty crowded at certain times of the day, esp. when those heavies dept for long haul destinations all at about the same time.
"I think all the points you made (except for all the Mahatir 2020 propaganda) were very valid."
- It is not a Mahathir propaganda. It is Vision 2020 (Wawasan 2020), a vision of all Malaysians to bring our nation to achieve a status of a developed country as a whole. What are you talking about? FYI, propaganda means the following according to Merriam Webster OnLine dictionary:
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
"John Howard (our deputy sheriff) couldn't give a rats arse about Malaysia or Mahatir or any other recalcitrant. If you notice, he usually doesn't bother to respond or reply to Mahathir's embarassingly bigoted rantings."
- Yah I'm sure. Aussies expect to work with ASEAN countries who would be looked after by a supposedly "friendly" someone (read: a sheriff monitoring us hmm) ?!?! I'm sure Howard never bothered to respond to our ex-PM's speeches. And yes what Mahathir said or did was all embarrassing and useless bullcrap.
Why use those words and bring up pointless childish thoughts of yours? We are discussing about aviation related stuff in this Civil Aviation forum... Off-topic certainly!
It'd be a shame if you were, by any chance, a Malaysian! And next time, get your facts right before you start posting and carefully think before you say something.
Sq_pilot From Singapore, joined May 2000, 80 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (9 years 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 5940 times:
1- Of course it's a PURELY business decision. So, stop screaming if MH 2x daily to MEL/SYD or has a virtual monopoly on that route because QUantas PURELY "biz decision" not to do/fly so and leaves the virtual monopoly to any particular airline. Once again, if you want a piece of that particular segment, stop yelling like hell, and make a step.
2- Yes, it has nothing to with this discussion. So do Mahathir/Politics. But hell no, so here i go and let me recall you. As i said in the previous reply, QF is busy protecting its SYD-LAX sector. And yes, i know and clearly understand the DUOPOLY thing, QF and UA, but interestingly QF is seeking a protection for that route few month ago. Why? What happen? A DUOPOLY with a protection? Interesting.
Please tell me when will SQ get a slice on that route? I repeat a "slice" means a small piece. at least one destination. So far none not even a little piece! With the introduction of A345 etc... perhaps there will be no "sq MAY get a slice" In return QF gets a BIG slice from SIN... as you are every proud with QF HUGE hub in SIN... the 5th freedom flight.
And oh yea! do tell me the latest development on the meeting of both officials (from SG and AU) few weeks/months ago regarding on this issue. And does FTA come complete in package with the open skies agreement/5th freedom flights? Wow, that would be interesting.
3- Mr Mahathir dont give a damn sh*t about that Dummy of Washington either. He has done a good job of transforming a nation from poor to steady n healthy nation. And if you notice too, he is the one who blocked the OZ entry into the ASEAN community, ASEAN+3 summit, ASEAN-EU Summit, EAEC, etc because of Howard's busybody/puppet role in Asia. But still, during his era or you may call it a dictactorship or regime, OZ Northern Territories was one of the many participating (local) team in once-every-2-year Malaysian Games, even under his leadership. Surprisingly enough, they (the OZ athlete) even took a pic with the ex-premiere, laughed and had dinner together. With HoWARd? It will never or can't be the same! Funny!
4- Am I missed your point? Forgive me then. BUT, I think you and the rest of the western journalist DONT understand the needs of KLIA.
FIRST
KUL was built not to REPLACE SIN/BKK roles as SE Asia hub immediately. It was built to replaced the old/tired SZB airport to provide better service for tourist/biz men coming to Malaysia. The needs of the new airport, is also because of the Kuala Lumpur 98, the 16th Commonwealth Games, they upgraded their public facilities. The games was held succesful even OZ olympic council gave a two thumbs up.
SECOND
The KLIA "wanna be" hub is a COMPANY'S MISSION. Dont you ever have a mission in your life to be a better person in the future? MISSION you know? the TARGET. Their Target to be a regional HUB. Future Target. What else? They set the mission once they are able to compete with Singapore in port/ship cargo industry, on this league, they, the Malaysian, managed to catch the giant of the industry, MAERSK Sealand and Evergreen, to move their "hub" to their homeland from SIN, these two giant are the largest in the world. (and dude they are able and can do it)
THIRD
And again, i'm asking you what will you call the project if it were to built in 1970s? When the majority of the people live under poverty.
Oh i see... it's better build it on the 1970s just to COMPETE with Changi and JUST TO GRAB the premiere hub status. I see they way you thinking, so, it's better to spend the money on airport instead of education/health etc? Is that your point? Wow, you are so genius!
The delay cost them what? Cost them a title? A status? Again, in what year KUL recorded a decresed in pax arrival. Yes, the major aren't come back, but the pax arrival increases every year.
5- Take a pill. Yes i am. It is a pain killer.
9V-SVE
In which part I said singapore is a rich nation before 1970s?
Airbus Lover
Bullcrap? I see, about the aborigins? about the capital control? about the busybody? about the jews? about what? Care to tell me? Most of the bullcrap is true. Shame shame shame.
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 934 posts, RR: 37 Reply 18, posted (9 years 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 5890 times:
Going back to Qantasclub's original question before it was so ferociously hijacked...
Whatever we may think of Mahathir, KL now has a spanking spacious expensive airport with lots of room for expansion. It's too early to judge I think whether or not it is a white elephant but if it is ever to succeed, it has to be the expense of Singapore. The two hubs are far too close.
KLIA has to be in the position to attract airlines to migrate and establish their presence here. And as we all know, it has failed so far.
Timing and external circumstances could be initial factors: it was opened at the start of the Asian financial crisis: lower margins, recession and then global airline alliances, of which MAS is not a member, changed how airlines operated. KLIA, not being a hub and with low connectivity and low yields, was a natural for the chop.
But its failure has also been self-inflicted. As with many things Malaysian, we seem to excel in building the hardware only to neglect the software: the day-to-day running of the airport is mediocre at best.
As someone who lives in KL and a regular user of KLIA, the so-called "impressive architecture" is only as nice as how fast your bags appear on the carousel, for instance, or how efficiently check-in is handled. Those must be issues airlines consider and if what little I see as a passenger is any indication, there must be some basis to why airlines like BA and Lufthansa were reaffirming their presence at SIN.
So yes, the old Subang may have needed replacement, but KLIA can hardly be regarded as a success.
ANstar From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 4872 posts, RR: 6 Reply 20, posted (9 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 5845 times:
I think KLIA was a great airport. Visited there back in 2001 before heading to Langkawi. I don't think it's a white elephant, it does the job, all be it with extra capacity, but I'm sure as things pick up, so will the traffic.
Also on the QF protecting its SYD-LAX runs, don't Air NZ have rights, but pulled out due to not making enough $$$
I'm sure SQ will get rights, perhaps QF was just trying to delay the decision till the economy is sorted out and they have an effective product to compete with. Regardless, I think UA would loose more of their market on that route than QF.
Ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4664 posts, RR: 27 Reply 21, posted (9 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 5822 times:
Airpearl,
I totally agree with you about the excellent infrastructure and bad software maintenance. But all these breakdowns are just teething problems that every new airport will face every once in a while (HKG, ICN...). But I must say the media did play up a lot of their problems especially in Singapore. Even the one about the rat that ran around the international terminal! Geez... Give KLIA a break man!
I am probably part of the handful of Singaporeans that use KLIA ever so frequently and I have encountered the breakdown of the arr/dep information screens more than once. One of my arrivals on Jan 02 the screens were up and running, just not the baggage claim info. So the staff were busy running about the arrival councourse writing the info on whiteboards with markers while confused passengers milled about.
KLIA is still operated with staff that has the Subang mentality (tidak apa, tidak kuasa). That is one of my pet peev with them because I have consistently received nothing but BAD service from the ground staff. It came to a point where I started to suspect that my nationality had something to do with it. But still I have received pockets of occassional smiles and my last trip from KLIA in Oct was nothing short of excellent as far as ground service was concern. So I know for sure there is hope.
Still, I will not be so quick to put down KLIA because IT IS - I repeat - it is an airport with a hell lot of potential for future expansion.
Sq-pilot, relax! While some of Qantasclub's points might have been miscontrued, there is no need for getting up on the defensive stride! So take a chill pill, a pain killer or anti-depressant. Just cool it! ok? Peace? Relak brudder!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
Airpearl From Malaysia, joined May 2001, 934 posts, RR: 37 Reply 22, posted (9 years 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 5796 times:
Ryan,
Be assured that it's not discrimination against Singaporeans: they are equally nasty to us Malaysians...
But maybe it's not the airport's fault that but MAS, whose KLIA staff appear to be particularly disgruntled!
Granted, it has improved of late -- though it's always a bit of a gamble.
Ryan, I am tickled by your seemingly unwavering support for KLIA and MAS: keep it up, we need guys like you to win over the airlines from your home base
Ryanair!!! From Singapore, joined Mar 2002, 4664 posts, RR: 27 Reply 23, posted (9 years 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 5752 times:
Hahaha... unwavering support? I give credit when credit is due.
My views are not clouded by political connotations that seem to rule people's head. Everytime when I tell my friends I am a FF with MAS, they go "Eeee... why MAS?". And when I ask them if they have ever flown MAS, the likely answer is always a "no". So I don't rule anything out until I have tried it. There was a while I was actually "addicted" to Golden Club Class until my pockets cried out for help. So my recent flights I went back aft into YCL.
I recognise that KLIA is an excellent airport. No one can deny that. For people to pan it, either thay have not been there and are judging it based on stereotyping Malaysians, or they are just plain crazy. Just look at the aesthetics! Geez... someone did put a lot of effort into the designs, you know?
Changi Airport is an excellent airport to use too. But lets not forget the facilities are all dated 1970s and 1980s for T1 and T2 respectively. So other than upgrading the facade, there is nothing much anyone can do. So kudos to the authorities for being able to keep the airport consistently on the World's Best Airports list. Infrastructure wise, Changi was built to cater for expansion and it is being put to good use now and I am sure that T3 would be out of this world!
Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
Sq_pilot From Singapore, joined May 2000, 80 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (9 years 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 5727 times:
where I started to suspect that my nationality had something to do with it.
Well, you take it easy too and welcome to the reality. The past and future, the tales of two nations.
At least it gave you a glimpse of what, hmmm let’s say in the last 20 years ago, how bad Malaysian were treated by the Singaporean Customs/Immigrations.
BTW, I’m very surprised, well shocked actually, having seen STB aggressive Singapore Roars campaign IN Malaysia, HAVING famous Malaysian singer IN the ads. I’m wonder, how much STB PAID the artist? Better be plenty of SING$, because the singer career is at stake. None compared to this, I was even more shocked having heard STB is opening their Regional office in Jalan Bukit Bintang KL. Why now? Why not before? Key word, potential! But it’s too late Singapore! Dulu sombong, sekarang terhegeh-hegeh.
[Edited 2003-11-23 11:20:10]
25 Qantasclub: I can see that the original topic HAS been ferociously hijacked! lol. Obviously alot of bruised and sensitive egos, especially from the Malaysians. Le
26 Qantasclub: Sorry-i just couldn't resist, after reading sq-pilot's last entry about Singapore. You guys are paranoid! Such a huge chip on your shoulder. The world
27 Sq_pilot: ???????? What did I said? I'm talking about the reality. Up to you, wanna take it seriously or lightly... notice the icon?????? Peace.
28 Airpearl: "...views are not clouded by political connotations that seem to rule people's head..." Agreed Ryan. Now if only more in this forum were like that...
29 Airpearl: "This sort of bitter, twisted, paranoid delusion that Singapore, the aussies, with west hate Malaysia is just ridiculous. Thats all just what Mahathir
30 G-KIRAN: I remember when KLIA opened way back in 1998. Lots of fire works and high expectations. But overall I must say that KLIA has been a dissapointment. Al
31 Mandala499: Well, when CGK was opened in 1985, everyone said it was a big white elephant! 2 Runways where only 1 was sufficient, especially with T1 being on 25L/0
32 G-KIRAN: G-KIRAN, BA pulled out of CGK as a part of the pullout from KUL... BA decided not to go to CGK through SIN because QF served the route. I remember aro
33 Mandala499: I don't think QF still does SIN-CGK, the SYD flight is now turnaround in CGK only, and the PER-CGK too... BA pulled out of CGK in early 98 I think...
34 Odie: KUL managed to attract Air China which inaugurated its services last September. And there are strong rumors that Lufthansa and Air France (Alitalia is
35 Planemaker: I may be mistaken but I do not see the long-legged 345's and 773's helping KLIA. I believe that the very long distance flights made possible by these
36 Airbus Lover: I am definitely not offended. I was just amused by how childishness and a very weak point of view from an individual could seriously degrade a person'
37 Qantasclub: Airbus-lover, i feel compelled to respond. (again!). I am not malaysian but visit often, and many of my relatives are malaysian. I also travel through
38 Sydscott: Let's get this thread back on the topic shall we. KLIA is clearly not a white elephant. The fact that QF, BA and a number of other airlines have pull
39 Airbus Lover: There you go. You have mentioned it yourself... Are YOU able to accept what others is telling you (and trying to correct your incorrect views and fact
40 Qantasclub: Airbus-lover, I accept your views entirely, I just don't agree with them. If you can't stomach that, then too bad. Don't read this forum. End of story
41 Sq_pilot: "the LAST from me..." a man without a word! what can you expect from em? Nothing! Screaming for a respect while he can't respect or AT LEAST accept/fa
42 Qantasclub: Not screaming for respect at all, Sq-pilot. My opinions are my opinions. I have every right to voice them and you have every right to say what you wan
43 Sq_pilot: There you go again! OFF TOPIC!!! well whatever lah! as long as you're happy. Hey Doc! That is very good of you to accept my "voice right" .. after all
44 Sydscott: Why are we arguing about democracy in Airline forum???? Get a grip everyone!!!!!!! In summary; 1. KLIA is a lovely airport and Malaysia should be pro
45 Gigneil: Perhaps if MAS does go for Skyteam you'll see substantially increased flying at KLIA. Certainly NW would add NRT-KUL, AF probably CDG-KUL, KL would bo
46 Sydscott: I'm agreeing with Gigneil again!!!!! A definite advantage for KLIA is having its major airline not committed to an alliance. This means that MAS, and
47 Qantasclub: Thanks, Sydscott. Yeah..out of hand again. I think we should leave it at that. Your conclusions are totally fair and reasonable. It's been fun. lol. j
48 Sydscott: Hey Qantas, have a look at the "Spirit To Go With 737-700 & 800?" Now that one is people taking things too seriously!!!!!
49 Qantasclub: Yeah-just did. Nah, I reckon ours is better. Bit nastier
50 Sydscott: Well its always more interesting having an international debate rather than boring everyone senseless with a domestic one. I could ask "who is better
51 Businessflyer: But what are MH's alliance plans? I remember reading some time ago (and I may not remember it correctly) that BA/QF were talking about MH joining OneW
52 Sydscott: Well that is the advantage that MAS has and that is price. As I said in a post above it would be interesting to see a breakdown of the connecting tra
53 Qantasclub: Yes, that would be interesting. Malaysia is marketed quite heavily in Australia as a tourist destination and stopover deals in KL or regional Malaysia
54 Shenzhen: It seems to me that Asia seems to bulild things on the big side, hoping/planning for the future. I can see nothing wrong with this, especially after f
55 Docpepz: QantasClub, To give you an idea of how many passengers through SIN actually get out: Changi handled 28 million passengers last year while The Singapor
56 Qantasclub: Agreed, Docpepz. It is an amazing achivement, helped by Simagpore's position as a natural hub on the Kangaroo route. I guess it also goes hand in hand
57 Ryanair!!!: Given that MH business class between Singapore and London is about S$5,000-S$6,000 ... Woah... the last time I enquired in 1999, SIN-LHR in JCL was S$
58 Docpepz: Well... the situation is basically as such: (To sum up what everyone has said in a nutshhell) In the seventies and eighties, Malaysia didn't have the
59 Maskargo: docpepz....i don't think that day trippers from singapore are included in the total arrivals to malaysia...its those that stay at least 1 night
60 JGPH1A: Its a fabulous airport and the MAS Golden Lounge is INCREDIBLE (love the river).
61 Odie: Docpepz: Malaysia received 13.2 million tourist arrivals last year, of which 7.5 million of them are from Singapore (isn't that like twice the amount
62 Docpepz: OK sorry for my not-so-accurate figures ( I remember reading them off CNN) but the proportions are somewhat there: 55% Singaporeans 45% the rest. Plus
63 Sydscott: I dont particularly find it suprising that Singapore has more visitors that Malaysia. This is primarily because Singapore is better known as a touris
64 Odie: Docpepz: I am surprised that Singapore didn't put the number of Malaysians who cross the border by land into their tourist count. After all, this will
65 Ryanair!!!: Its a fabulous airport and the MAS Golden Lounge is INCREDIBLE (love the river). There is a RIVER in there? How come I've never seen it??
66 Airpearl: There is a RIVER in there? How come I've never seen it?? more a longkang without the smell
67 Ryanair!!!: Eh... that longkang happens to be a very beautiful longkang, ok?! Kinda serene if you think about it. Very nice to relax after a long flight... So wha
68 Airpearl: So what happens when the levee breaks, the Golden Club floods? haha, that's only for passengers who want to have that "authentic" feel of KL, every on
69 Atco: As somewhat an outsider from the UK, I'd like to add something. I love the Far East, I spent my honeymoon in Hong Kong, Singapore, Malaysia and Sabah.
70 9V-SVE: But this is KUL just after the sun rises... http://www.virtual.planepictures.net/show.cgi?4304
71 Ryanair!!!: What a cool pic to depict a "what-if" scenario... Was Air Asia left out on purpose?
72 9V-SVE: Those are 'real aircraft' operating 'real schedules'. No, I didn't bother installing AirAsia yet
73 Mas777: Typical - a really long thread but am still away on business/leisure! Very briefly just to add my thoughts... 1. KL's airport is far from being a whit
74 Air Taiwan: Sq_pilot you're such an extremist. What do you mean by "peace"? Every one of your posts suggest the exact opposite. Please post in a more civilised wa
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And yet, if you still feel so cold and empty, feel free to bring an extra cloth … considering Malaysia hot/humid tropical climate. 
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