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Another B737 uncommanded roll  
User currently offlineDL757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 9 months 4 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Another incident involving an uncommanded roll of a Boeing 737 occurred Tuesday when a US Airways Metrojet 737-200 banked unexpectedly while cruising at FL330 during a flight from Orlando, Fla., to Hartford, Conn. The crew shut off hydraulic power to the rudder's power-control unit before switching to a backup system, then made an emergency landing in
Baltimore. The anomaly involved an uncommanded left yoke deflection and offset rudder pedals. This in-flight incident followed last Friday's discovery of stiff rudder pedals on a UAL 737 during preflight at the Seattle-Tacoma International Airport.

So, who still wants to fly the 737 ?


17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBryanG From United States of America, joined May 1999, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (15 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

I just booked a trip on UAL over the internet this morning. I'll be going ORD-GSO on a 737. I'm not planning to change.

A 737 takes off or lands every 6 seconds somewhere around the world. They don't crash a whole lot. It's safer than walking down the street on a sunny day.


User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (15 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

I still fly a 737 any day of the week. It is still one of the safest aircraft. How about those A300,310,330 go arounds?


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (15 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 2222 times:

DL757 you scared me to death! Yestorday I worked on USAirways MetroJet B737-200 at IAD. After pushback we took only one part of By-Pass Safety Pin (we didnt know that second part stock right there). After rolling on taxiway, pilot wanted to go back to the gate because some problems ocured. After two hours problem was fixed. That flight was to ATL.
I'm going to my employer right now to give them my resignation letter. Be a Ramp Agent is a big responsability.

Rafal


User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (15 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 2220 times:

I would be interested to know if DL757 is a pilot. From the tone of his letter I would say no. And for Rafael the gate agent, same thing. There are over 3,000 of these aircraft flying in every situation imaginable in every place imaginable. It is important you understand the engineering, testing, and proper procedures before you act like a newspaper reporter and create hysteria from a point of ignorance. C'mon guys, we as enthusiasts (and pilots ourselves for some of us) have to be better than the common layman.

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (15 years 9 months 1 hour ago) and read 2220 times:

I would like to apologize to DL757 and Rafael if it appears I came on too strongly in my response to your comments. DL757 included some good background specifics, but I didn't care for the comment about flying 737's. I'll try to be less hasty and more considerate in how my responses sound in the future.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (15 years 9 months ago) and read 2220 times:

Question.

When we did 737 pushbacks at Alaska I don't remember there being a bypass pin on the 737 nosegear. I remember there was a pin that had to be attached to the nosegear on the MD-80 but I don't remember one on the 737. This of course was four years ago so my memory may be a little shot.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 7, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Then you had better eliminate flying on 747's also because they use the same 737 rudder actuator on the 747 as the elevator actuator. The Pitsburgh crash was not an uncommanded roll. It was a rudder hardover. And after the crash the actuator was examined and found to be funtionioning properly. Boeing took a retired 737 and put it's rudder through every test immaginable and found nothing. If you want to be scared be scared of Kapton wiring. Be vary scared. It causes arc tracking when it burns. This means that as it burns it turns to carbon which is one of the most conductive elements known. (ex) Swissair. The US navy has grounded every Tomcat wired with the stuff, and specified all new aircraft delivered be wired with something different. (I forgot the name). The Tomcat has suffered an attrition rate of about 300 aircraft due to electrical failure. The only New airliner to use the new wiring is boeing in the 757. And it is only using it in the aircraft delivered to US airways. Because there the only airline to specify this. I wonder why?

User currently offlineDL757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

No, Navion, I'm not a pilot. That shouldn't matter anyway. Especially becasue I'm not a pilot these things don't mean that much to me so I post this to get other peoples opinions. I agree that my last remark was not based on facts but I wanted to get some discusion going from you guys who know about this stuff.

I am not sure I like the way you guys brush this off as just another little hitch. Imagine what those us air pilots must have thought. It scared them enough to make a emergancy landing that means something (in my humble no pilot opinion).


User currently offlineWill From Australia, joined May 1999, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

G'day L-188.
The b737-100/200 series had to during pushback switch the system A electrical and No1 enigine hyd's switches off to prevent hyd power to the nosewheel steering. This came with a few funny failures when electrical power was lost during pushback for whatever reason, and the power to off solinoid "failed to on", on the No 1, thus a tow bar break was stuffered. On the 300/400/500 series, a by-pass pin was installed.
See yah..
Will..


User currently offlineLindy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

To all of you guys

YES. B737-200 HAS NOSEGEAR BYPASS SAFETY PIN, SHAPE "T". I'm working on; B737-200 (MetroJet) B737-300/400 (USAirways) DC-9 and MD-80 (also USAirways).F-100 (USAirways) For all those planes you need By-Pass Safety Pin!!! You dont need only for F-100 because in this kind of aircraft you have it next to communication ports with pilots (on the right side of the plane). There is little red switch, when you click that you will see red light on, it means that parking brakes are released and you are ready to connect towbar to the aircraft.
Navion - yes I'm working as a Airlines Ramp Agent at IAD. I'm not fake. Do I have to prove it? Ask me anything concerning my position, I will glad to answer.

Regards
Rafal

PS- I'm working also on Prop-planes such as:B1900, SF-340, DHC-8, J31, (USAir Express, USAirways Express) it suck! No belt-loaders!!


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

That jives with what I remember from AS. I mostly worked with the last 727 that the had or the 737-200QC's. And I do recall being told that it was an internal system that the pilots used. But I don't remember any difference between that aircraft and the -400's. But like I said before this was four years ago and because of the shift I had I didn't work many -400's.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJohn Redmond From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

It's the not knowing the cause of the Pitttsburg/Colorado Springs crashes and the other 737 rudder deflections that make it so spooky. Yet another uncommanded rudder deflection occurred with an Eastwind 737 on approach to RIC The pilots recovered by using assymetric thrust, I believe. Otherwise it's more unexplained loss of life. I will fly on 737's, but until I see some likely explanations, and a plan of correction, why take the risk (albeit incredibly miniscule) if you can make thre trip on another otherwise acceptable aircraft? Anyone know of a website that analyzes all the 737 rudder incidents around the world?

User currently offlineL1011 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1681 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2222 times:
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Speaking of the Eastwind 737's uncommanded roll at RIC, I flew on that aircraft on its first flight out after it had been grounded, on 7/2/96, from RIC to TTN. Boy was I worried!

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA



Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
User currently offlineWinair From United States of America, joined May 1999, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

The 737 is a great aircraft but how many accidents have happened with the roll on a 37...

User currently offlineWill From Australia, joined May 1999, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

G'day All.
That could be true...On our Ansett B737-200's we no nose wheel by-pass saftey pin value, but our -300's did have it fitted. l've dispatch a million of the type's over the years so it's easy to remember what had what with our A/C, but who knows what other B737-200's were modified with. lt sounds like that it could have been a mod programme for the -200's to have the by-pass value install, because it gave us endless trobles in the early years with the -200's..

See yah..

Will....


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

The other thing about Alaska Airs 737-200 fleet is that most of them have been modified with gravel kits. The nosegear doors are modified and a plate is mounted on the back of the wheels to keep the gravel down. I don't know if there where any modifications to the stearing system because of this but it is possible that the pin may have been removed as part of this mod.

Maybe??



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSatchmo From Germany, joined Sep 2005, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (15 years 8 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

I absolutely agree with you, John. There are two losses of aircraft (United 585 near Colorado Springs and USAir 427 near Pittsburgh) which have not been fully explained. However most experts believe that both crashes, which claimed the life of 157 people, as well as the Eastwind incident were caused by uncommanded rudder troubles due to failures in the PCU an/or yaw dumper system. Apart from that there have been hundreds of incidents where pilots reported uncommanded swings of the rudder in the 737's long carrer. All the early models had no system to limit a possible uncommanded rudder movement. Unfortunately Boeing and the FAA have been very slow and reluctant to act. This is understandable, but not acceptable and could lead to more incidents. Just imagine the millions of pounds it would cost Boeing to acknowledge that the rudder is defective and the associated changes to almost 3000 in-service aircraft. However, Boeing at least introduced some changes to new-build versions of the 737, which of course do not affect all the previous models. Don't get me wrong: I don't think the 737 is an unsafe aircraft (I just flew on one two weeks ago), but in the interest of flight safety it would be better to fully investigate the causes of this rudder phenomenon.
John, there is a report on the following site:
http://www.seattletimes.com/extra/browse/html/rudd_102796.html#background


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