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How Do You Deliver An ATR Across The Ocean?  
User currently offlineTolosy From Luxembourg, joined Oct 2003, 357 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6269 times:

Hi,

As a flight spotter  Big thumbs up, I am always wondering how ATR delivers some planes in some geographical place, like oceania.
For example, the ones to Air Tahiti or Air New Zealand. Because even with extra fuel, is the plane allowed to fly over the pacific ocean.

I also have the same question for 737 and 320. For example, if Boeing delivers a 737 to Europe, even with extra fuel, the plane is not ETOPS certified.

Also I would like wich routes these plane fly when delivered?

Thanks for your help,

Nick

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5643 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6246 times:

I don't believe ETOPS requirements apply if an aircraft is on a delivery flight without passengers.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6231 times:

Anyone know what airport PIA's 777 is going to stop-over at when it gets delvired to Pakistan? I think it will stop over at JFK, or some other Airport. Can some one tell me what airport the PIA's 777 will be stoping over when it gets deliverd


GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineOD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1924 posts, RR: 32
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

How is the 777 delivery path related to this topic?

If the ATR can make it from Scotland to KEF, it can probably make it from there to North America. Remember that early airliners in the 40s used to fly transatlantic with almost a similar range to today's ATRs.


User currently offlineMbmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

I believe that an extra large slingshot is involved.



User currently offlineTolosy From Luxembourg, joined Oct 2003, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6117 times:

What is a slingshot?

Thanks for your reply.

Nick


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

A slingshot is something that most teachers have taken away from their pupils... it usually consists of a Y-shaped piece of wood with a rubber band inbetween... the kid's version of a catapult...

Although, you'd need one heck of a slingshot for an ATR... Mbmbos - do you know who even produces rubber bands of that size and strength? Big grin



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6040 times:

It gets a little trickier when there is nowhere to stop and refuel, as between the U.S. mainland and Hawaii--for example, when Hawaiian's new 717s were delivered. Or, presumably, when Air Tahiti receives new ATRs. In those cases, some or all of the seats are removed and extra fuel tanks are installed in the cabin, allowing for longer overwater routes.

FYI, a slingshot is like a small catapult--typically a piece of elastic stretched between a forked stick. It's what David supposedly used against Goliath, according to the Bible...not trying to be obnoxious, but surely you have them in the UK??? In case it wasn't obvious, Mbmbos was joking...






Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineTolosy From Luxembourg, joined Oct 2003, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5977 times:

Thanks for the details !

I yeah I see what you mean. Shame on me.

 Wink/being sarcastic


User currently offlinePIA777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1738 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

I was just asking  Sad


GO CUBS!!
User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5740 times:

Don't worry, PIA777 - the fact that no-one has answered your question simply says that no-one knows the answer here... try starting a thread with that question, I suspect that will get you an answer quite quickly - at least if the route has already been set...



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6841 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5611 times:

Hmm, this ATR delivery to Tahiti was discussed to death in the Sydney Airport Forums... I think the route they used was fly through Asia and Australia, to Fiji, Samoa and all those other places until they reached Tahiti, and they didn't need the extra tanks if I recall correctly...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

Ok, maybe the Air Tahiti ATR was a bad example--that was just a guess. I do know, however, that Hawaiian used extra tanks to get its 717s across the ocean (and probably did the same with its DC-9s back in the day). There was an article about this in Airways not too long ago.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1790 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Sometime ago someone posted a link to a picture (dont't know if it has been updated to the database)..........of a 717 with extra fuel tanks inside, in order to make the delivery trip from the mainline US to Hawaii.


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineAirbus Lover From Malaysia, joined Apr 2000, 3248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Umm as for PIA B777s I am 99% sure they can fly nonstop from WA to Pakistan with full load of fuel and few pax and/or cargo.

ATRs? They just have lots of stops enroute, just like a milk run  Big thumbs up

A32Xs or B737NGs? Umm they umm have >5000kms of range how far do you think they can fly with full fuel and no pax?  Nuts

Just an example of deliveries of our 3 A332s earlier this year, they all flew YUL-SZB (Montreal - Kuala Lumpur (Subang)) non stop with full load of fuel. IIRC it was more than 14000kms and took about 16 hrs to arrive. Upon touch down they still had enuff (well sorta) fuel for a diversion to airports 50 minutes away.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy I don't think ETOPS restrictions apply for such delivery flights, more of a one-off scenario.


User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5329 times:

LESKOVA..... first time ever I laughed out loud on this site!!!!

User currently offlineAirbrasil From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

I know Froniter flies the following routes for all A.318 and A.319 deliveries:

HAM-BGR-PHX

The plane usually come with a few lucky employees that also gets the chance to visit the Airbus plant in Hamburg. The plane comes in in full F9 Arrangement, with LIVETV's disconnected (bummer) and lots of pizza and coca-cola. The planes fly to PHX in order to have a maintenance check and also to operate the first revenue flight on the next day as PHX-DEN. FOr some reason Frontier gets a huge tax-break when it operates the first flight from PHX with some pax... by the way, December 6th, acft N924FR will be flying form Europe to Arizona for those spotters.. Daniel PHX/F9


User currently offlineUSAFHummer From United States of America, joined May 2000, 10685 posts, RR: 53
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5013 times:

I recall reading an article about a Tyrolean Dash-8-400 being delivered from Montreal to Austria, and the routing was something like Montreal-Goose Bay-Sondre Stromfjord (Greenland)-Keflavik-Glasgow-Innsbruck...or something similar along those lines...

Greg



Chief A.net college football stadium self-pic guru
User currently offline707cmf From France, joined Mar 2002, 4885 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4972 times:

Nah, slingshot are only use for delivery flights at Elbonian Air

707


User currently offlineCanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

i would imagen they bounce there way around, like fly UK to iceland to greenland to canada to wherever there going, and so on. Occasionally we see Bombardier aircraft (Dash-8s, CRJs) pass throu here, ussually come to here to nome to eastern russia then off to wherever...

CanadianNorth



What could possibly go wrong?
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Fox Bravo,

Only Americans think a slingshot is a small catapult. The device that David used to slay Goliath was a rock tied to a piece of string or other material, which one whirls around one's head and then releases - hopefully in the direction of the target.

To the rest of the world a small catapult is a catapult.  Smile


User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 22 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

CanadianNorth.

Occasionally we see Bombardier aircraft (Dash-8s, CRJs) pass throu here

Where is 'here', Edmonton?


User currently onlineAloha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 20 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

Here are the pictures of how Hawaiian's 717s made it from California to Hawaii:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © James Richard Covington, Jr



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © AirNikon



Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5049 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 19 hours ago) and read 4418 times:

Atlantic Southeast in Atlanta received some ATR from Air New Zealand Mount Cook Airways - now THAT must have been one hell of a trip!


bruce



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 19 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Just like the pictures above of the 717.......They get 'Tanked'. Most Turboprops use a 'soft-bladder' style tanking system. The company I work for is involved in delivering several Saab 340's to Australia. The aircraft are tanked in BNA, then fly to LGB and get topped off, then fly non stop to HNL, then on to Fiji and finally Melbourne, AU.

Actually if you ever see an ATR dissembled for inspections, you can actually see where the tanking system ties into the normal fuel system.



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
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