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Business Class Airline  
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4943 times:

I have an idea for an airline and I'm wondering what everyone thinks about it.

Take 737NGs and make them all business class. Operate them on premium routes out of key business cities, i.e. NYC-LAX, ORD-SFO, etc etc. There are many possible route combinations. So instead of having around 130 seats these planes would have around 75. Onboard you can have gourmet meals and great service...everything Midwest Express did but this time on routes with ACTUAL premium traffic. At the same time costs will be low by using new planes and by keeping the planes flying most of the day. Hopefully, attractive fares and great service would attract lots of loyal passengers.

I know many people are against the idea of an all premium airline but I think it could work if it flew the right routes. Midwest was consistently voted #1 domestic airline in the US but Midwest didn't fly between cities with lots of business traffic.

So any thoughts?

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirxLiban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4511 posts, RR: 53
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4838 times:

privatair are doing this with 737s.

internationally, though.

i suppose this could work as a subsidiary of a major airline, therefore providing the passengers with mileage programs and connections and such.

yeah why not, at least from my uninformed perspective.

Air Liban



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4803 times:

There could possibly be a market for more business-oriented airlines in the years ahead similiar to Midwest. Midwest however does actually serve routes with quite a bit of business traffic, as I imagine relatively few people fly to Milwaukee, Columbus or Minneapolis/St. Paul on holiday Big grin

At present however the demand for business-class travel is rather low and Midwest is having some financial trouble. An airline such as this could probably only succeed if it followed a quasi-low cost model in today's world, and it might be better to wait until the next booming economy before launching such an airline.

-WGW2707


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4723 times:

Your wish is my command.

http://www.primarisairlines.com

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

privatair are doing this with 737s.

internationally, though.


Not the way the author of this thread dreams it up. Privatair sells business class service at a business class fares. What the author wants is business class service at WN-advertised fares. And, economically, that's just not realistic.

[Edited 2003-11-29 16:18:45]

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4511 times:

It would have to follow a low cost model such as keeping the utilization rate high, turnaround times fast, and other costs low.

And imagine if Midwest made some money from Milwaukee, what can be made out of New York?

Alpha, I didn't mean to give the impression that they would be WN fares.

I just did a quick search on fares from JFK-LAX for a roundtrip flight next week.

290 roundtrip on JetBlue to LGB
272 roundtrip with a connecting flight
489 nonstop on United or American
1,000 in first/business class on the majors...similiar price for an unrestricted coach ticket.

So a premium airline could charge more than the coach fare but less than the first class fare...Something like $600. That way you capture pax who are paying the 490 but know the service will suck and are willing to pay slightly more...and you also capture the pax who would buy the unrestricted coach ticket or first class ticket. Pricing would be a complicated issue but if you find the right fare between coach and first, I think this airline could work.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

FLY777, Primaris Airlines is a perfect example of what I think is a good airline idea...Although I find the route structure odd. EWR-DEN ahead of other more possible profitable routes. I would think that EWR-MIA or EWR-IAH would come ahead of EWR-DEN. Methinks flying to Paris will hurt them too.

User currently offlineLastBaron From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4372 times:

There is a proposal already o the books but suffering from lack of first round funding, to fly out of TPA and be something just as you envision. It is called Crystal Airways - http://www.crystalairways.com/. So far they have been unable to achieve first-round financing.

The premium airlines of the past, MGM Grand Air, Air One, and to a lesser extent, Legacy, all have shown that this will never really work. Even with the current "let them eat cake" U.S. administration in power, there are simply not enough business and first class full-fare passengers out there to make it work.  Yeah sure


User currently offlineWGW2707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4317 times:

LastBaron, you were doubtless referring to Legend. Actually though those business class airlines were failures, Legend might have succeeded had they not been bogged down with litigation for four years before they were allowed to begin operations. It's a shame that that occured, that would have been an interesting airline. Also don't forget, though those business class airlines have been failures, Midwest Express, which is definitely all business class, has been a success. They were a resounding success in the boom years of the late 1990s when the major airlines were developing such a bad reputation for poor customer service, and even now have managed to avoid bankruptcy and are holding out for the forseeable future. Another airline largely oriented to business class travel in Europe (although with a conventional two-class cabin), SN Brussels Airline, has been one of the most inspiring success stories in recent aviation history.

It will be interesting to see if any more business class airlines are launched...if another one is launched, I personally believe that it would be wise to consider, instead of a hub, catering to different high-yield point-to-point markets that are usually devoid of non-stop service, such as Privatair's EWR-DUS route.

-WGW2707


User currently offlineTcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4275 times:

I too, have wondered about the possibilities of this type of airline materializing. I think that the way the US airline industry is headed, it would not be unheard of to see majors working mainly coach or "LCC" type service, with another airline or subsidiary working LCFC (low-cost first-class)...i.e. First or business for the price of unrestricted coach. Obviously, it would have to operate from a hub that would not require years of litigation (e.g. Legend and DAL) and would sustain high F loads...MIA, SFO, LAX, NYC and to some extent DIA and IAH.

I, personally would love to see this...it would be interesting to see a co-op between WN or B6 and this LCFC...a major on two different levels? Imagine UA operating "TED" and "UNI"...the LCC and the LCFC, respectively, or DL operating "Song" and "yet to be named" respectively. It is interesting discussion, and I do not think this is too far off the mark, though I fear this may signify the end of the middle class in America...just my thoughts.

Mike


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4269 times:

WGW2707, I agree completely with you. If Legend and AA hadn't been fighting so much, Legend might be here today. And while they were around they received great praise.

If a business class airline started today and operated on high yielding point to point routes such as JFK-LAX, and had great service, I think it would thrive.


User currently offlineTcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

RJ...

I am very interested in this idea, as I have had the same idea, or at least a very similar idea...email me...tcfc424@yahoo.com.

Mike


User currently offlineTcfc424 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4219 times:

Looking at Midwest's route map, it almost seems obvious why they are not highly successful...MKE is not (to my knowledge) that big of an F destination. I would think that a MIA, JFK, or LAX hub would be optimal, as those are locations with high F yields...and they are not providing an F product, they are providing a Y+ product...

User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 988 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4126 times:

Dallas kinda worked for Legend. They didn't budget legal fees well among other expenses that killed them. But their idea proved successful with their forcasting of revenue and passenger enplanements.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4031 times:

What is happening with Legend's terminal and car park now? Are they still there?

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

No idea FLy777. But while Legend was in Dallas they did do very well, just the darned legal battle....oh well.

User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3904 times:

Rjpieces's Idea won't work on its own, in my opinion.

It needs a 'big-brother' backing by an established airline in the US, in my opinion.

It would need to be a 'product' of a large offering. DL would be a great candidate to add another offering and confuse travellers even more  Smile

No seriously, if someone ever bought YX and dropped their YX Saver routes and focused on their core premium product and utilized an aircraft with coast-to-coast range, now you are talking.



B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3896 times:

"No seriously, if someone ever bought YX and dropped their YX Saver routes and focused on their core premium product and utilized an aircraft with coast-to-coast range, now you are talking."

What is the difference between that and what I proposed?


User currently offlineB4real From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3877 times:

No difference, when I said "Now you are talking" - I meant, now Rjpieces is on to something. So I'm saying 'You're on to something'




B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3846 times:

Their 717's should be capable of trans-con with about 66 passengers onboard based on Boeing's 717 Corporate Jet model...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

any1 in here remember grand air?????lions on the tail,dc8s lax-jfk mid-late 80s???all first/biz class...forbes did a article about that not to long ago about how time share a/c have taken off and used grand as a example of how a airline can not compete against warren buffet and his privates.....u can not do a lcc with f/c service and expect to make it unless ure paying the staff minimum wages,,,,most lax-jfk movers/shakers are flying privates and letting the help(albeit)major help fly f/c and get the corp discounts


bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Hmm, they were before my time. Can anyone tell me what type of routes Air One and MGM Grand Air flew. Why did those airlines crash?

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