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Charter And Scheduled Loadfactors  
User currently offlineEA777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1687 times:


In general do charter airlines have higher loadfactors than normal scheduled airlines. Everytime I have flown with a charter airline the flight is usually completly full, as opposed to flying on a scheduled flight, where invariably there are empty seats.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 599 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

Hi EA777,

Yes as general rule charters have higher load factors. Since fares are offered at significant discount, they need the high load factors to recover cost of operation.

The charters that don't break even are never offered again.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

UK charter carriers have average annual loads of 95%+ whilst their scheduled counterparts work on 75-80% typically (some are a bit less, while others are a bit more).

Last Summer I must have flown 10 flights in a row with 235 passengers on a 757 to Sunny Spain, not a seat free. More people on board when you take into account infants on laps. Most I had was about 250 once on a 757-200  Nuts



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

Hey Rick - when are you next flying, to where and on what series 737?


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

Charters tend to have higher loads because they are holiday flights. You don't get that many people going on a holiday to the sun on schedule flights unless there is no other choice. Mainly because charter airlines are used for package holidays to Spain etc

-Stephen


User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1599 times:

"Hey Rick - when are you next flying, to where and on what series 737?"

Early start tomorrow LGW-AMS-LGW-INV-LGW, 73G

Home for lunch  Big grin



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1551 times:

Oh! I could have sworn you flew for FR, but clearly not. God knows where I got that from!

Do you like the 40-odd minute flights to AMS, or do you prefer longer legs (and hairless and slim)?  Wink/being sarcastic



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineEA777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Is Rick a pilot? or have a misunderstood what you guys are saying


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Yeah, he flies 737s for Easyjet, seemingly from LGW.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days ago) and read 1478 times:

"Do you like the 40-odd minute flights to AMS"

The 40 minute sectors are a bit of a pain to be honest, I am used to 3 hour average sectors to the sun, flying back and heading home.

We do have a few 2-sector duties to be fair (I just never seem to get any!). Out of 22 weekday duty blocks at LGW, 13 are 2 sectors with the other 9 being 4 sectors.

In the Summer we had a couple of 6 sector duties which I did once, that was awful! We may get some of those again come April.

But my preference is definately for a LGW-ATH-LGW or a LGW-AGP-LGW. Take-off... feet up and it's all taken care of.  Big grin

"or do you prefer longer legs (and hairless and slim)?"

That would be telling Big grin



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days ago) and read 1458 times:

LOL! I guess you also get paid more with longer flights, if you're only paid once the brakes are released and then reapplied at your destination.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

We're on sector pay @ EZY rather than duty pay so actually doing more sectors is more lucrative. Captains get a nice £20 per sector with us F/Os on about £13 a sector, so if we do say LGW-BCN-LGW-BFS-LGW (4 sectors) that's £52 duty pay compared to £26 doing LGW-ATH-LGW (2 sectors), even though both mean roughly the same time on duty.

I'd still rather do the longer trips though! Duty pay is on top of the basic salary I know I'm going home with every month so I regard it as a bonus.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineGordonsmall From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2001, 2100 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1422 times:

Captains get a nice £20 per sector with us F/Os on about £13 a sector

In your case Rick, I'll bet that extra £7 per sector is justified by the captain having to put a cushion under you so you can see over the glareshield.  Big grin

Sorry, couldn't resist after seeing your post the other day boasting about how you can fit in a charter seat.  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Regards,
Gordon.



Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1399 times:

Gordon,

Actually I bring my booster seat with me. Can't reach the pedals like... but hey what are they actually for anyway? It's not as if engine failures ever actually happen right?!  Laugh out loud

I've probably just jinxed myself now - beware passengers flying to ZRH or LIN tomorrow!!

Now... what to spend my £52 on!

(Edit: Can't add 26 to 26!)

[Edited 2003-12-01 18:29:29]


I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePlanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4119 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1359 times:

Hate to sound rude Rick, but what is your average annual salary for being a pilot. I can imagine it'll be quite high (50k+), but i was just curious of a rough figure.

Also as a pilot (for any airline) do they only allocate you to fly from your selected airport, or can they send you all over the country to do flights?

Thanks alot!

-Stephen


User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1343 times:

Stephen,

£50k would be nice.... maybe in a few years eh! Airline salaries in the UK and much of the world are no real secret, take a look at the PPJN Website and pick your airline.

For the easyJet figures, SFOs (like moi) get about £39,000 per annum basic plus flight pay (400 ish sectors a year at £12.37 a shot is another £5k on the basic).

After tax the all-important take-home pay is roughly £600 a week (£2,600 a month), although this varies depending on sectors flown of course (lots at the moment, since we have nowhere near enough pilots).

Being based at LGW means that generally that is where I will get flights from, but yes the company can allocate you on any flight on the network although your travel to and from the relevant departure airport will either be arranged or refunded.

So if I fly from STN/LTN or EMA and drive there and back, they will refund me at a mileage rate, if I need to do a flight from GLA they will pay me on a BA flight up there and back again after my return. Those situations are very rare though, far less common than they were in my previous airline.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1315 times:

Apologies if I sound rude, but why do you get paid flight pay? Surely you should only be paid the basic salary? Needless to say it's better to be paid more.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

James,

Most if not all airlines give some form of flight pay or duty pay to their pilots and cabin crew. I suppose it can be regarded as the differentiation between sitting on your butt at home and actually flying planes.

In Britannia we were paid duty pay at about £2.60/hr (from when we reported for duty until chocks-on after the final flight of the day). Doesn't sound like much but when you consider I was often doing 120 hours duty in the Summer months it's another £300 on the paypacket which is not to be sniffed at.

I suppose duty / flight pay is just a perk of the job. In the USA it is a huge deal as the basic salary payment is very low, while the per hour flight pay is very high. Ryanair copied this philosophy (from Southwest Airlines) and as such a Ryanair First Officer will get paid about £11,000 per year basic salary, but can expect to get about £20,000 a year in sector pay. With basic salary hikes to £17,000 in Year 2 and £22,000 in Year 3, then a Captaincy in Year 4 with a basic of £48,000, plus the £20k flight pay every year, they are easily among the best paid 737 pilots in the world.

The downside of that system is that if you are off sick or on leave you obviously get no sector pay and so don't go home with nearly as much.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19199 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1284 times:

Aha, I see.

*Looks forward to when he qualifies as a barrister in the next year.* Big grin

[Edited 2003-12-02 20:12:52]


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBeltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

Just about every commercial flight has a weaker sister that re-positions the plane for the next flight. LGA to FLL on Friday evening is strong, but the FLL to LGA on Saturday morning is weak. So a scheduled flight will always be dragged down by weaker legs.

Charter only counts the one leg. You have to realize that there was probably an empty flight to get the aircraft to the originating point.


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