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NWA Service To BOM  
User currently offlineAvion346 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 184 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

Just curious as to why this route even exists.

First of all, while all other middle east routes from AMS belong to KLM, why does NWA operate this SOUL route?

Second, it seems out of place, being to only US airline to offer service to the middle east.

Although the route is most likely profitable (otherwise why would it still be in existence), it still seems so out of place. I wonder why NWA doesn't trade this route for a North American one from KLM.

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3006 times:

Not sure as to the real reason. But it is very profitable and Delta Air Lines also flies to BOM. Not sure if it is from FRA or CDG these days. However with NW only one crew member is based in BOM, the others are US based. With Delta only the flight deck is US based.

Before 9/11 NW flew to DEL as well. But after 9/11 NW only flies to BOM but on a dailiy basis. I think by using the NW/KL code share they were able to get more landing slots from the Indian Govt. But that is a rumor online I could be wrong. Hope this info helps ya .

Oh, and on a humor side. The route exist because it makes money. And where there is money. The Red Tail will go !



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

FYI India is considered to be in South Asia, or on the Indian subcontinent, but NOT the Middle East. As is detailed in the current Business Week, the Indian economy is booming, fueled by offshore outsourcing operations set up there by US companies. I imagine a fair number of these companies prefer to be able to fly between their US headquarters and their Indian operation on an American carrier such as NW and DL, if not for the superior service/security then to take advantage of whatever corporate discounts they have negotiated systemwide with those airlines. Air India or other foreign carriers wouldn't be able to offer the sort of comprehensive relationship and discounts American companies would have systemwide with airlines like NW and DL.

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

The India-Netherlands bilateral restricts KLM to a maximum of 7 weekly frequencies on the India-NL route. They are using all 7 of these frequencies currently to Delhi.

Hence, if the NW/KL alliance wanted service in excess of these 7 flights, all further services must be operated by Northwest. That is why Northwest operates to BOM and KLM to DEL.


User currently offlineAASilverbird From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Not sure if it is from FRA or CDG these days

DL flts to BOM now go through CDG. For yrs they used FRA, but I think this stopped a little over a yr ago, but I don't recollect why the change was made to CDG. DL via JFK also has a connection in MXP with Alitalia taking the MXP-BOM route. This in addition to a JFK-CDG-BOM routing

[Edited 2003-12-01 20:14:38]

[Edited 2003-12-01 20:15:42]

User currently offlineNwacrew From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

A huge India fan, I transferred to our BOS domicile when Northwest began operating to BOM and DEL in the third quarter of '97. At that time, only Boston-based flight attendants staffed the India flights. (Additionally, two Hindi-speaking Jet Airways flight attendants were added on the India-AMS-India sectors. These wonderful Indian nationals were issued both NWA and KLM uniforms, and worked the BOM/DEL flights of both companies.)

When the war began in Afghanistan, NWA decided to suspend service to DEL because of the air space used on the flight from Amsterdam. That route is now served daily by KLM, while Northwest operates the daily flight to BOM. Previously, both carriers served both cities, on a staggered basis.

The BOM flights are extremely profitable for Northwest, and were upgraded from a DC10 to a 747-400. I've heard talk of eventually linking BOM and SIN, which would give Northwest it's first-ever 'round the world service.


User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2831 times:

Nwacrew:

As of last month the DC10 is back on the route. No more 747-400's on any Atlantic/India trip. All 744's are back in the pacific or in the shop getting new paint and the new WBC seats/video.  Smile Fly safe !



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Additionally, two Hindi-speaking Jet Airways flight attendants were added on the India-AMS-India sectors. These wonderful Indian nationals were issued both NWA and KLM uniforms, and worked the BOM/DEL flights of both companies

Quick clarification. The Indian crew on the India-AMS-India sectors are not Jet Airways employees but rather NW/KL employees. They were also designated as "interpreters" rather than "flight attendants" because of union issues. Basically India did not fall under the "south flying" clause of the contract and hence could not be staffed by non-union FAs.

They still fly the routes and I must say that they are exceptional. As an India-based KLM Platinum Elite, I get to interact with the NW/KL India staff a lot and they provide absolutely superlative service both on the ground and in the air. I even got invited to dinner back in March this year as a thank-you from the BOM office for being a loyal customer. Fantastic is an understatement.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

For yrs they used FRA, but I think this stopped a little over a yr ago, but I don't recollect why the change was made to CDG.

FRA-BOM was the last remnant of PA's former hub there leftover to DL... once USA-France OpenSkies came into play; DL received antitrust immunity with AF, and it therefore made much more sense to route the flight via CDG


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2374 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2653 times:

Until a few years ago, prior to the NW BOM daily the picture looked as follow:
KLM 4x weekly AMS-DEL [1x weekly through to CCU]
KLM 3x weekly AMS-BOM
NW 4x weekly AMS-BOM
NW 3x weekly AMS-DEL
The NW flight would originate from one US city, which was changed several times [BOS, JFK, DTW].

Today all BOM flights are operated by NW, and all DEL flights by KLM. Please note that these flights are operated on a Joint Venture basis and revenue is split between KLM and NW on DEL and BOM.

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2589 times:

KLM 4x weekly AMS-DEL [1x weekly through to CCU]
KLM 3x weekly AMS-BOM
NW 4x weekly AMS-BOM
NW 3x weekly AMS-DEL


Actually, immediately prior to 9/11 the flights were operated as follows :

NW : Daily AMS-DEL D10
NW : Daily AMS-BOM D10
KL : 3x weekly AMS-BOM 74D
KL : 3x weekly AMS-DEL 74D
KL : 1x weekly AMS-DEL-CCU 74D

This was a total of 21x weekly flights, subsequently reduced to 14x weekly flights following 9/11.


User currently offlineWindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1312 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2578 times:


I have flown NorthWest BOM-AMS-DTW-PVD back in 1999. DC-10s all the way to DTW and then DC-9 to PVD. At that time, the DC-10 to BOM had a EWR-AMS-BOM-AMS-EWR routing, I think.

cheers



I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

Doesn't NWA operate the BOM flight because they can't overfly certain countries in the Middle East and thus can't reach Delhi?

User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2374 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2489 times:

Thanks for the correction Sean. Indeed I forgot those flights. Seems like such a long time . . .

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineAASilverbird From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

ConcordeBoy,

Thanks for the clarification. It does make more sense seeing as how AF and DL are both SkyTeam members. Another question I have is what happened to DLs FRA-BOM-FRA slots? How many slots did they have for this flt?


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Doesn't NWA operate the BOM flight because they can't overfly certain countries in the Middle East and thus can't reach Delhi?

Immediately following 9/11, the US imposed overflight restrictions that prevented all US carriers from overflying Afghanistan. At that time, it was decided that NW would operate to BOM and KLM to DEL, since AMS-DEL required Afghan overflight for optimal routing. However, those restrictions have since been lifted but status quo has been retained for almost 2 years now (although NW juggles 747s and DC10s to BOM and KLM presumably be making DEL an MD11 at some point this winter).


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

"I get to interact with the NW/KL India staff a lot and they provide absolutely superlative service both on the ground and in the air."

They do??? Admittedly, the Indian staff are decent inflight, but the Bombay ground staff were among the nastiest I have ever witnessed anywhere. Seriously. I've seen nasty ground staff in Moscow, Patna, Lagos, but the NW ground staff at Bombay in the year 2001 (the last time I took NW to India) were absolutely abhorrent. I think we nearly had a riot on our hands with a full load of 250 + pax on a DC-10 just about ready to murder the entire check-in staff ! I have over 150,000 Frequent Flyer miles on NW, and I think I will only use them when I fly Pacific routes.


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2271 times:

NW : Daily AMS-DEL D10
NW : Daily AMS-BOM D10
KL : 3x weekly AMS-BOM 74D
KL : 3x weekly AMS-DEL 74D
KL : 1x weekly AMS-DEL-CCU 74D


The AMS/DEL/CCU services used to have full pax B742SUDs as well.

Considering that they have just decided to retire the 747 Classics (Combi config. 44/247) operating to DEL and replace them with MD11 aircraft (31J/251Y), its quite a drastic cut in capacity in cargo that they are looking at, bearing in mind that the MD11s only have underfloor capacity.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineAmrish From India, joined Dec 2003, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Well! All US based carries would love to fly to India!! The Indian economy is growing and secondly there is a huge Indian expat community in the US. All inbound and outbound flights from India to the US are almost full to capacity, and even the local carries AI are unable to cater to the demand in the peak winter, and summer months. For many Asian,and American carriers this is one market that which will always grow, and offer the best returns in terms of profitability. (As the fares for this sector is quite expensive as compared to fares of similar distances)

User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Amrish... welcome to A.net

Since you are based at CCU, you will be interested to know that next week onwards you can see an MD11 on regular commercial passenger services out of CCU.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineNwadc10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

I love NW and will fly it as long as DC-10s are around, as you can surmise from my username! But on the flight to BOM or AMS it is annoying to have your AVML meal always substituted for Vegetable Lasagna which is clearly not AVML. KLM flights always serve AVML and so are better for people who avoid egg noodles and the like. AVML is the meal ordered specifically by Hindus who do not eat eggs. I wonder is NW would ever cancel a Kosher meal and give Orthodox passengers Vegetable Lasagna instead!

User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

AVML is the meal ordered specifically by Hindus who do not eat eggs

Nwadc10...

AVML is Asian Vegetarian Meal. Meal specifically ordered by Hindus are classified as HNML (Hindu Meal). To clarify further, AVML will always be vegetarian (usually prepared in a manner suitable to the Indian vegetarian palate). HNML may however be non-vegetarian but excluding beef and pork products.

Hope this clarifies.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
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