Flybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 992 posts, RR: 3 Posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2530 times:
I believe NW (along with UA, AA and DL) have totally phased-out 727's. A lot of these 727's were built in the late 70's to around 1982. Obviously the 727 is larger than the DC-9, so is this the reason why NW has retired all it's 727's, but still flies DC-9's that are 30-37 years old. I would think the replacement for the 727 would be combination of the A320 and the 757, while the replacement for the DC-9 is also the A320, but primarily the A319 (At NW, that is).
Av8rPHX From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 713 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2514 times:
Luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 3, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2494 times:
Well 727's require a 3 member cockpit crew, and the DC9's only need 2 people for the cockpit crew, also 3 engines burn more fuel than 2.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2488 times:
Reasons for 727 retirement....
1) 3-person cockpit crew
2) overlap by A320 fleet capacity-wise
3) shorter range than A320
4) smaller fleet
Reasons for DC-9's to stay....
1) 2 person cockpit crew
2) relatively low-cycle for their age
3) DC-9-"2000" interior refurbishment, hushkits, etc
4) no suitable replacement
5) most cost-effective 100-seat non-RJ aircraft
6) fits well in NW's route structure
many more reasons for each.......but to each their own
Jetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7336 posts, RR: 52 Reply 6, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2320 times:
CO2BGR From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 558 posts, RR: 4 Reply 8, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2271 times:
Until they are as old as the USAF 135s (some will be hitting 50 soon) NW will not replace the 9s.
on to a more serious note....
The 9 is built like a tank and it will keep on flying for a long time. The 135s opperate safely and the 9s do as well. There is no reason for NW to stop flying them as they are also totaly paid off and very economical. The is also no reson for the public to not fly them either as if they were as unsafe as some people here say they are the FAA would have grounded the fleet years ago.
There are too many self indulgent weiners in this town with too much bloody money" Randal Raines- Gone in 60 Seconds
Jeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1335 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2267 times:
Also, I could be wrong, but I believe Northwest has many DC-9's that are not really that old, like built around the mid to late 80's. I could be wrong.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2260 times:
That's the DC-10-30's Jeffery....
Last DC-9's (-50's) were produced in 79/80 until they switched over to MD-80's
IndustrialPate From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2253 times:
NW's DC-9's interiors are quite nice, especially compared to the beyond crapped-out interiors of US's B737 (including aircraft that were built in the early 1990s)...
Last DC-9's (-50's) were produced in 79/80 until they switched over to MD-80's.
Actually the DC-9-30 was produced until 1983ish (delivered to US Air).
Jeffrey1970 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1335 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2249 times:
PSU.DTW.SCE,
Thank you for the info. I was one number off there, ha ha ha. Anyway I agree with most others here, two instead of three equals great savings.
Iflewrepublic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 537 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2217 times:
87 times this year? Earlier this year it was practically 87 times a DAY.
I'm sorry, that was rude.
Iflewrepublic.
Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
Flybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 992 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2085 times:
My orginial thought wasn't on old DC9's, but why are relatively newer 727 going away relatively early in comparison.
And you guys, when the talk turns to NW, it usually will be concerning their fleet age since it is the most interesting topic in regards to NW.
Nwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 641 posts, RR: 15 Reply 15, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2036 times:
Flybynight, How is the fleet age the most interesting topic about NW. What else is there to know. So, for the record:
-NW has the one of the most flexible fleet in the industry.
-22% of their fleet consists of 80-119 seat category aircraft, whereas the industry average for this same category is 5%. The recent trend has been for aircraft with this seating capacity.
-NW DC-9s are completely paid for! Nothing owed. They pay for themselves. Why spend billions replacing a fleet and running the airline towards bankruptcy when you can have a safe, reliable, profitable aircraft.
-Northwest's fleet excluding the DC-9s averages 9.7 years, whereas the rest of the industry averages 10 years old, and growing older. Look for NW's fleet to start looking younger than the other majors, because it will be a while before new orders are taken and delivered to AA, CO, UA, DL, etc.
-NW will be retiring the DC-9-10s by the end of next year.
-NW's oldest DC-10-30 is N229NW was built in 1972, making the a/c aprox. 31 years old.
-NW's youngest DC-10-30s are N244NW/243NW and were built in 1988, making those aircraft about 15 years old(younger than some 762.
-NW's fleet currently consists of 16 747-400s, 12 747-200s, 12 747-200Fs (freighters), 4 A-330-300s, 22 DC-10-30s, 16 757-300s, 56 757-200s, 76 A-320s, 65 A-319s, 35 DC-9-50s, 12 DC-9-40s, 112 DC-9-30s, and8 DC-9-10s. The Jet Airlink fleet consists of 36 RJ85s, and 70 CRJs.
-NW will be taking delivery of the following aircraft the next few years, 10 A-330-300s,10 A-330-200s, 8 A-320s, 12 A-319s, and 59 CRJs.
-NW has options for 2 747-400s, 36 A-330-300s, 16 757-300s, 18 A-320s, and 29 A-319s. In the Jetlink fleet, NW has options for 175 CRJs.
-There are 551 aircraft in the NW fleet, 331 are owned, 220 are leased.
-99 aircraft are going to be delivered over the next few years.
-Most pax cannot tell the difference between a CRJ-MD80-DC9 or a 737! Maybe 2% of travelers on a DC-9 actually know how old the a/c is. And it is not like an old A/c is a bad thing. An aging fleet does not affect NW.
-AND NO, NW DOES NOT HAVE INTENTIONS TO REPLACE D9S WITH 717S AT THIS TIME!
Flyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1943 times:
There are 166 DC9's left in the NWA Fleet
The DC9-10's range in age from 1966 to 1967 (I think 5 left)
The DC9-30's range in age from 1966 to 1974 (I think 124 in fleet)
The DC9-40's range in age from 1967 to 1968 (I think 12 in fleet)
The DC9-50's range in age from 1976 to 1980 (I think 25 in fleet)
These numbers are not in stone. But they are very close. The NWA DC9 is the most reliable in the fleet. And the last Airbus crew to take an Airbus to the desert will come home on a DC9.
The DC9's are mostly owned and in turn has kept NWA as strong as possible during this horrible downtown. The company posted $46 mil profit for the 3rd quarter. More than any other legacy carrier in the US.
The Boeing 727 feet officially left last year after the NBA season. The last remaining 727's were in the VIP configuration for NBA/NHL charters. The 727's were removed from normal passengers operations in the spring of 2003. (I think) The last 727's to be reitired were built from 1977 to 1982. Some of the NBA 727's were obtained in 1992 from the estate of the former Eastern Airlines and were some of the last off the assembly line. (circa 1981 to 1982)
Many 727's went to Maxton NC to be parted out.
Flyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1937 times:
NWCOFLYER:
How right you are ! Thanks much for the numbers run down.
I personally love the DC9. Layovers are too short tho
NWA330Tony From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1737 times:
NWCOFLYER thanks for the info!!! can you tell me where you got it from also do you know of anywhere i can find other fleet info such as reg#'s
thanks, and once glad you posted that keeep it close as im sure youll have use for it in the next NWA thread lol!
JU101 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 832 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1727 times:
Flybynight,
This is a question that i asked myself too. Other than Northwest, another airline that is replacing 727s before the DC9s is Jat Airways from Serbia.
JAT took delivery of the DC9-32 between 1970 and 1973. Some of the planes were sold to Northwest last decade, with nine remaining in the fleet. At this time, six remain in service on either regularly scheduled flights or on lease abroad. For JAT, the Boeing 727-200 deliveries began in 1974, with the last two made in 1981. Two 727s remain in service, however they only do charters to Mediterranean destinations, or eventual leases abroad.
The benefit of the DC9 over the Boeing 727 is cost of operation. The douglas birds require two people in the cockpit as opposed to three. Maintenance is probably easier for the DC9. Up to recently there were no suitable replacements for the DC9-32s, as opposed to the the 727. With a refurbished cabin interior, and hush kitted engines, the DC9s compare well in comfort to newer aircraft. Furthermore, the douglas birds for both companies are completely paid off. Therefore, each DC9 flight equates to solid profit for Northwest and JAT.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6875 posts, RR: 29 Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1577 times:
Sorry, my bad... I wasn't aware that -30's were made up until 1983. I just knew that NW's youngest DC-9's were from 1979/1980. I assumed the DC-9 production stopped with the roll-out of the MD-80.....I was wrong....
"4) no suitable replacement
The 717 is the perfect suitable replacement for the DC9."
We argue this all the time, each airline has specific needs or requirements for their fleet. NW was at a turning point in the mid '90's. They had to make a decision on the DC-9 fleet. The option was either refurbish or get new equipment. They didn't have the cash to obtain new aircraft at the time, and the more prudent choice was to update the DC-9 fleet. Since they were required to Hush-kit them, there was no reason to dump them shortly thereafter. At the time, the 717 was not available, large RJ's were non-existant, therefore NW did not have an aircraft that was even in serious consideration.
Airdude66 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 187 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1553 times:
The 717 is not an option for NW. Not really a suitable option for any major.
25 Nwcoflyer: BillElliott9, I did save it, I have decided to create a standard post that I will put on every NW DC-9 thread. I will add more info to the list. NWA33
26 Flybynight: First, let me get the defensive part out of the way: 1 - What is wrong with asking a question about replacing 727's before DC-9's. SHOW ME WHERE THIS
27 Nwcoflyer: Flybynight: The reason that the 717s are not an option is: 1- NW has expressed that it does not want the 717. As recently as last month, Bernie Han, C
28 KYIPpilot: Flybynight, if you search the archive, you will see that this topic comes up probably once every 2-3 weeks. It has been discussed to death.
29 JeckPDX: I dont even know why I bothered to enter this forum seeing as 99% of the topics are regularly Boing 7E7-future product or A vs B, American A300s, or N
30 Flybynight: Once again, if you don't care for the subject, why are you reading it? Also, where and when has my SPECIFIC question about the 727's being replaced be
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