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EWR Vs JFK  
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17920 times:

OK, the SAS flying only to EWR post has degenerated into a "which is better, EWR or JFK" so I figured I would open a new post to continue this topic (and add my thoughts!)


JFK is generally thought of as the prestigious New York area airport. The JFK routes are more prestigious.


As a kid growing up in the 70s and 80s in northern NJ, it always DID seem like JFK got the "better" planes - at least when making apples to apples comparisons of airlines and routes. UA , TW and AA flew 747s JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO, while EWR got AA 707s, TW 707s and UA DC8s (and a rare UA D10 or 747).

To this day, the "prestige" services between NYC and LAX/SFO by AA and UA are still from JFK on 762 and 763 aircraft. You won't find yourself crammed on an UA A320 or AA 738 on JFK-LAX... It's EWR-LAX that gets the narrowbody planes from these airlines (though AA will be retaining a single 763 EWR-LAX once they introduce the 738).

Just to show this wasn't/isn't restricted solely to the the NYC-LAX/SFO routes, back in the 70s, where did NA fly their 747s from between NYC and MIA? JFK of course! And that short period of time when EA flew 747s to MIA and SJU. It was from JFK.

To summarize, it seems like the "old school" airlines that are still around (such as UA, AA, NW) still regard JFK as the premiere NYC airport for trans-cons and international flights (a throwback to the dawning of the jet age perhaps when JFK's Terminal City truly was world class - especially compared to EWR pre-Terminals A/B/C?).

144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17790 times:

To summarize, it seems like the "old school" airlines that are still around (such as UA, AA, NW) still regard JFK as the premiere NYC airport for trans-cons and international flights (a throwback to the dawning of the jet age perhaps when JFK's Terminal City truly was world class - especially compared to EWR pre-Terminals A/B/C?).

A pretty fair assessment, I'd say.
JFK today is also getting known as the area's main low-cost airport thanks to the rise of B6.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2074 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17651 times:

To summarize, it seems like the "old school" airlines that are still around (such as UA, AA, NW) still regard JFK as the premiere NYC airport for trans-cons and international flights (a throwback to the dawning of the jet age perhaps when JFK's Terminal City truly was world class - especially compared to EWR pre-Terminals A/B/C?).

I'd say so. The old EWR terminal (pre-1973) was basically a giant steel shed with open-air wooden gangplanks attached to it. Hardly a showcase airfield.


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17635 times:

I flew out JFK yesterday - kinda ridiculous to pay $45 for a cab from Manhattan. That the same price that I pay for flight to BUF. JFK has the worst and most expensive commute among all major airport. The same EWR.

User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17596 times:

I usually take the subway to JFK from Manhattan and it costs me $2.00  Smile Or if I'm in a hurry, grab the bus for $11 or whatever it is nowadays. $45 is a bit high, isn't there a set price like $30 or did that go up?

Michael


User currently offlineCOEWRNJ From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1065 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17526 times:

I would take EWR any day over JFK. I have never flown out of JFK but been there many times to pick people up. It is a disaster to get to. First it has taken me up to two and a half hours to get there because of the Belt pkwy. Next once you get there I don't know if its gotten better but we had to park by the Delta terminal when we needed to be at the AA terminal and than had to wait for a van which seemed to take forever in those great northeast winter days and after that it was 15min ride to the terminal. Not to mention driving around JFK is a pain in the neck in itself. Anyway you get my point. I would prefer EWR's easy circle terminal plan any day and of coarse its much easier to get to for me.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17484 times:

"NYC and LAX/SFO by AA and UA are still from JFK on 762 and 763 aircraft"

True but with AA and UAL's impending retirement of their 767-200 fleets and UAL's lingering bankruptcy, plus the loss of revenues from the encroachment of low fare airlines like Jetblue and soon Song on Trans-con routes out of JFK does anyone honestly believe that AA and UAL will continue to operate all widebody service from JFK to LAX and SFO.

I think within the next two years most of UAL's trans-con flights from JFK will either go 757s and A320s, some flights may be dropped all together.

CO is currently operating 2-3 767-200s from EWR-LAX and 1 from EWR-SFO, CO's 767-200s are brand new and will be operating long after AA and UAL's are retired. AA and UAL's likely replacement for their 767-200s are 757s, they both have over 100 757s.

AA will probably stick with 767-300s on their LAX-JFK route, but a mixture of 757s and 767-300s is possible for that route and JFK-SFO.

DL is probably going to turn over their Trans-con flying over to Song, even if they don't they are operating mostly 757s from JFK-LAX, SFO, SEA etc..

And I think folks are getting too hung up on the LAX and SFO transcon widebody flights from JFK, it's nice they offer that service but that does not make up for the fact that UAL that has a major hub in Denver does not even offer one daily flight from JFK. Or how about Chicago, Chicago has the second largest business district in the US and UAL who are headquartered there cannot even offer one daily flight from JFK?..

Im sorry but widebody service from JFK-LAX and SFO does not meet or equal the services at EWR that cater to Business travelers.

JFK attracts low fare customers, EXCEPT.. on flights that are not offered from JFK (ie. LAX, SFO).








Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offline9V-SPF From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1375 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17471 times:

$45 is a bit high, isn't there a set price like $30 or did that go up?

There´s only a "flatrate" for the trip from JFK to Manhattan but not on the way back and it was $35 when I was there the last time (tip and bridge/tunnel fees not included of course).
A cab driver once told me that the flatrate was introduced in order to prevent the drivers from ripping off unexperienced tourists and NYC-newbies after their arrival but I don´t know if he was right.

Daniel


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17443 times:

It's so hard to compare the two, it's almost like apples and oranges. It's certainly impossible to say outright that either one is "better" than the other all around. Each has its pros and cons, although the exact balance of pros and cons is different depending on whom you ask. So, as a lifelong New Yorker who regularly flies out of both airports (not to mention LaGuardia, which is sort of special...don't want to confuse the issue here!), I will attempt to make an unbiased, balanced comparison between the two in specific areas, which IMHO is the only fair way to do this.

1. Access to airport. This totally depends on where you are coming from. Newark will always be more convenient for anyone in Jersey, and JFK will always be easier to get to from Brooklyn, Queens and Long Island. That's just simple geography, end of story. Manhattan is where it gets a bit trickier. Traditionally, Newark has been more of a haul, but the Airtrain changed all that. It's true that the $11, 20-minute train ride from Penn Station is a compelling option, but on the other hand it's not so great when your flight arrives at Newark after 11 pm, when trains run VERY infrequently (I speak from experience here). Taking a cab to or from Manhattan, however, is prohibitively expensive (can be over $60, depending on your destination). To JFK, on the other hand, the subway is a bit of a schlep, but definitely cheap. A taxi will run you about $30 plus tip and tolls, give or take, to the airport, and going into the city it's a $35 flat rate...not cheap, but nowhere near as astronomical as the Newark cabs. So, going to or from Manhattan, it really depends on several factors: how close you are to Penn Station, how much luggage you're carrying (the train isn't exactly luggage-friendly), what time of day you're traveling, and how many people you're with (don't forget, a $35 cab fare cheaper than 4 $11 train tickets). And, note that this whole equation will change again once AirTrain JFK finally opens.

2. Terminal infrastructure. About 5 years ago, Newark was the winner, hands down. JFK was, for the most part, a stinking hole--especially the dreaded, windowless, I.A.B. Ugh. That in itself accounts for much of Newark's growth, especially internationally. However, that has changed dramatically in recent years, thanks to the new T1 and T4, and renovations at the other terminals. T3 is still difficult, and I try to avoid it, but T1 and T4 can hold their own against anything Newark has to offer--or any other world-class airport in the world, for that matter. T7 is decent since it was renovated, T6 is getting old but JetBlue makes the best of it, and T8/9 is currently a construction zone but will be beautiful if/when it's finished. At Newark, Terminal C (used by CO) is beautiful, especially the new int'l arrivals area, but A and B are much less impressive. Again, no clear winner--each has its high and low points.

3. Domestic service. Newark has a clear advantage here, thanks to CO's hub. There are nonstops to lots of places that you can't get to nonstop from either JFK or LGA. However, JFK is becoming more popular for domestic travelers thanks to JetBlue (and now Song), and for transcons, JFK has more premium widebody service.

4. International service. JFK definitely still has an edge here. CO has added a lot of international flights, so Newark is definitely becoming a more compelling option--especially since there are now a few cities served nonstop from Newark but not JFK--but for most international airlines, if they serve one NY airport, it's JFK. Because of its historical importance, JFK is generally perceived as NY's premier international gateway, while Newark is used more for overflow when airlines can't get additional slots or gates at JFK (SQ and LH have done this). Then there are airlines that have or once had agreements with CO (SK in the past, and currently BR), and the special case of TP, which serves the large Portuguese community in Newark itself. Yes, MH and MX fly into Newark a few times a week, but look at the long, impressive list of JFK-only international carriers: AM, AR, BW, CA, CI, CX, EI, IB, JL, KU, LA, MA, NH, OA, RG, SA, SU, SV, TK, and many others.

5. Connections. Until the AirTrain is up and running at JFK, Newark will continue to be much more connection-friendly. At JFK, it's not so bad if both of your flights are at the same terminal, but heaven forbid you have to change terminals--what a mess. At Newark, most connections are likely to be on CO anyway, but even if you had to change terminals, the monorail makes it very easy.

So, as you can see, it's impossible to say either airport is "better" than the other. Better for specific things, and for specific people going specific places, absolutely. But each has a lot to offer, and each deserves respect.

[Edited 2003-12-03 17:48:11]


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 17411 times:


I'm sorry but widebody service from JFK-LAX and SFO does not meet or equal the services at EWR that cater to Business travelers.

Granted, CO has recently added 762s EWR-LAX and EWR-SFO, but I was actually making a more apples to apples comparison in terms of AA and UA in particular.


True but with AA and UAL's impending retirement of their 767-200 fleets and UAL's lingering bankruptcy, plus the loss of revenues from the encroachment of low fare airlines like Jetblue and soon Song on Trans-con routes out of JFK does anyone honestly believe that AA and UAL will continue to operate all widebody service from JFK to LAX and SFO.


Actually, that's something I haven't considered. What WILL UA and AA do on their JFK-LAX/SFO routes once their 762s are gone? 777s probably not. 763s possibly. Will be very interesting to see if they go AA 763/757/738 and UA 757/A320. Time will tell...



User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17389 times:

I've flown in and out of both airports, and they both have their pros and cons. I flew AA Eagle to JFK in Sept. then connected to an AA JFK-LHR flight, and the small, under-construction terminal was a pain, but I know that's just the construction.

In any event, I've never understood why JFK gets the "prestige" transcon routes but hardly any other domestic traffic. AA only has one DFW-JFK flight per day (sometimes two, depending on the season). AA has ZERO ORD-JFK flights as well. Seems like there are hardly any major domestic routes from JFK, except for transcons. Yet, the majors always route their big transcon planes from JFK. Any explanation?



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17380 times:

No matter which airport you choose, I encourage fellow a.net members to come visit NYC, we need the business! Anyway, some assorted points from a New Yorker living in Manhattan:
1) JFK is in the New York City borough of Queens (as is LGA); EWR of course is in the State of New Jersey, not New York. The only reason it is considered an official airport for NYC is that it is run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, a bi-state organization. There is an amusing historical story from the '30s about our feisty Mayor Fiorello LaGuardia making a fuss about an airline that flew him to EWR when he had bought a ticket to New York, which Newark is clearly not. He was so upset, he got an airport built within the city that was eventually named after him.
2). Because it is not in New York City, you cannot get a metered New York City yellow taxi to take you to the City from EWR, only a Newark taxi. Newark taxis are practically unregulated compared to NYC taxis, and many of these cabs are literally falling apart. Alot of visitors arriving at EWR have a bad taxi experience and incorrectly attribute it to NYC.
3). EWR has had better rail access than JFK, with the NJ Transit/Airtrain connection, but in a couple of weeks the JFK Airtrain will open and there will be a comparable connection between the Long Island Railroad (or NYC subway) and the JFK Airtrain.
4). EWR is dominated by CO, JFK offers a greater choice of airlines and destinations. At one time you could save money by flying CO out of EWR vs other majors from JFK, especially when CO was trying to establish itself after bankruptcy and had taken over the hub from PE, but today, because of more competition at JFK and CO's dominance at EWR, there is sometimes a premium to be paid for flying out of EWR.
5). Along with the Airtrain project, alot of money has been spent to develop JFK over the last few years, including the new International building, the new Terminal 1, and the renovation of Terminal 7. JFK has something like 8 or 9 terminals vs. EWR's 3, so your JFK experience largely depends on what airline and terminal you are using, as some are very modern and some are very outdated (such as the Delta Terminal 3 facility).
6). In sum, the whole comparison is a bit of a wash, based on where you want to fly, airline preference, lowest fare, and importantly for the NYC area, where you live or work. Basically, the distance from the City to EWR and JFK is the same, but in different directions. In my experience, if you are in or going to uptown Manhattan or the East side, or anyplace east of that (Queens, Brooklyn, Long Island), JFK is the better choice. If we are talking lower Manhattan, the West side, Staten Island or anywhere in Northern NJ, EWR is more convenient. Of course LGA is undisputedly closer to the city than either of those, but does not offer longhaul or much international service.


User currently offlineHaveric From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1247 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17345 times:

All 3 NYC airports are genuinely miserable places. They have poor transport connections, poor terminal facilities, and are not user friendly. Compared to major airports in other large US ciites, NYC has subpar facilities -- none of which NYC should be proud of.




User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17338 times:

Another point: if you live within the LGA perimeter and not in Miami or a JetBlue destination, good luck finding a non-stop to JFK!


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17310 times:

Haveric, that may have been true in the past, but it doesn't sound like you've flown in or out of NYC lately. When was your last visit to JFK, LGA, or EWR? And which terminal did you use? I don't mean to grill you or put you on the spot--it's just that as a New Yorker I'm genuinely proud of the improvements that have been made at all three airports in recent years, so I'm curious about what led you to that assessment.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17330 times:

Comparison of select flights to US "Business" centers from EWR and JFK..

JFK-Atlanta
DL 2 767-300
Song 1 757
DL connection 5 CRJ
total 8 daily flights

EWR-Atlanta
DL 7 737-800, 2 757, 3 M80
Airtran 4 717
CO 9 737s (300s and 500s)
total 25 daily flights

JFK-Boston
AA Eagle 5 ERJ (135, 140)
DL connection 5 FRJ, 1 CRJ
total 11 (Regional Jet) flights

EWR-Boston
AA Eagle 5 ERJ-135s
CO 7 737-300, 1 M80, 2 737-500, 1 737-700, 2 737-800
total 18 daily flights (mostly 737s)

JFK-Chicago (Ohare & Midway)
DL Connection 1 daily CRJ (Ohare)
total 1 daily (50 seat Regional Jet) flight!...

EWR-Chicago Midway
ATA 6 737-800
CO 1 737-300, 5 737-500

EWR-Chicago Ohare
AA 1 M80, 9 F-100
CO 9 737-500
UAL 5 737-300, 5 737-500, 3 A320

EWR-Chicago (Midway & Ohare) total 44 daily (no regional jet) flights

JFK-DFW
AA 3 M80
total 3 daily flights

EWR-DFW
AA 7 M80
CO 6 737-500
total 13 daily flights

JFK-Denver
Jetblue 1 A320
total 1 daily flight

EWR-Denver
CO 1 737-500, 2 737-700, 2 737-800
UAL 1 A320, 1 737-300, 2 757
total 9 daily flights

JFK-Detroit
DL Connection 1 CRJ
NWA 2 DC-9
total 3 daily flights

EWR-Detroit
COEX 2 ERJ
CO 2 737-300, 2 737-500
NWA 1 A320, 3 A319, 3 DC-9
total 13 daily flights

JFK-Mineapolis
NWA 1 DC-9
Suncountry 1 737-800
total 2 daily flights

EWR-Minneapolis
COEX 3 ERJ-145
CO 1 737-500, 1 737-700
NWA 2 A320, 2 A319, 2 DC-9
total 11 daily flights

JFK-New Orleans
Jetblue 1 A320
total 1 daily flight

EWR-New Orleans
CO 1 737-300, 3 737-700
total 4 daily flights

JFK-St.Louis
DL Connection 1 CRJ
total 1 daily (50 seat Regional Jet) flight

EWR-St.Louis
AA Eagle 4 daily ERJ
COEX 4 ERJ
CO 1 737-500
total 9 daily flights

JFK-Seattle
AA 1 757
DL 1 757
Jetblue 1 A320
total 3 daily flights

EWR- Seattle
AS 2 737-700
CO 2 737-700, 2 737-800
total 6 daily flights

JFK-Washington National
AA Eagle 3 ERJ
DL Connection 1 FRJ
DL 1 M80
total 5 daily flights

EWR- Washington National
COEX 4 ERJ
CO 6 737-500
total 9 daily flights

JFK-Montreal
AA Eagle 4 ERJ
total 4 daily flights

EWR-Montreal
AC 5 CRJ
COEX 5 ERJ
total 10 daily flights

JFK-Toronto
DL Connection 1 CRJ
total 1 daily (50 seat Regional Jet) flight

EWR-Toronto
AC 6 A319
COEX 3 ERJ
CO 1 737-300, 2 737-500
Jetsgo 3 M80
total daily flights 15 daily flights

Domestic US Cities served from EWR but not JFK..

Albany, Asheville, Augusta, Austin, Birmingham, Charleston SC, Charlotte, Columbia, Dayton, Daytona Beach, Fayetteville, Grand Rapids, Greensboro, Greenville/Spartanburg, Hartford, Honolulu, Huntsville, Kansas City, Knoxville, Lexington, Louisville, Madison, Manchester NH, Memphis, Milwaukee, Myrtle Beach, Montrose, Oklahoma City, Omaha, Portland ME, Portland OR, Providence, Richmond, San Antonio, Sarasota, Savanah, Steamboat Springs, Tucson, Tulsa, Vail

Domestic US Cities served from JFK but not EWR..
Long Beach, Ontario





Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3515 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17253 times:

Flatrate is $35 plus tolls and tip which always ends at $44-$46. Mikephotos - AFAIK there is no subway at JFK.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17238 times:

Many pax heading to one of those "business centers" would be likely to use LGA instead of JFK or EWR.


"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17233 times:

Haveric- We are really proud of what IS being accomplished here given that we suffered the brunt of the 9/11 attacks and have to work with high costs and a huge and dense population. I will concede that unlike, say, Orlando, Las Vegas or even Chicago, we are not in a position to devote alot of public resources (ie local tax dollars) to make things comfy and convenient for tourists and conventioneers. However, as a New Yorker whose business has been hammered by the post-9/11 dropoff in tourism, I think most visitors will find the hassle worthwhile, and things are literally getting better every day. At JFK we have new and renovated terminals, the home of best LCC in the country, flat rate taxis and the AirTrain coming in a matter of weeks, at LGA we have a recently renovated main terminal with a foodcourt viewing area and a short taxi ride to midtown, and at EWR we AirTrain access and the international hub of the best major US carrier!

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5426 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17226 times:

I'm going to fall into line with FoxBravo on this one. I fly into NYC fairly regularly (at least twice a year) due to my work with a nonprofit. As a nonprofit, our Chief of Staff books the cheapest ticket to NYC, regardless of which airport it's into (as in this past summer she booked a few people into ISP on WN). I have to admit I've never been booked into JFK, but in all cases where I was booked into EWR I've never had a problem getting around. EWR is, to me, the most user-friendly PANYNJ airport. I've never had a problem checking in, finding my way to the gates, getting between terminals, getting luggage, or getting into Manhattan. Airtrain and the EWR station for NJ Mass Transit is a godsend. I will admit that once into Manhattan, Penn Station can be somewhat offputting, but hopefully that will improve when Penn Station is relocated to the Farley Building.

As for LGA, my experience is mostly with the Delta and the USAirways Terminals, but the times I've used the CTB along with the DL and US Terminals, I've come away happy. Once again, no probs with any aspect except getting to LGA as one is dependant on taxis. Here's to hoping that Airtrain might one day connect LGA to the 7 line somehow.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17216 times:

AA will probably stick with 767-300s on their LAX-JFK route, but a mixture of 757s and 767-300s is possible for that route and JFK-SFO.


All AA flights between JFK and LAX/SFO are 767-200ERs and it will stay that way. They are all outfitted with 3-class American Flagship service that are a key part of thier trans-Con service. The only other domestic routes that feature this service are JFK to Miami and Hamilton, Bermuda and Los Angeles to Miami.



a.
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 17162 times:

FYI just to stay on topic, remember that NYC or the PANYNJ has no influence over what type of aircraft serve what route. Those decisions are made in Dallas, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta etc. So if you were uncomfortable on a RJ to LGA or flying transcon on a 737, it wasn't our fault! I think all services to and from the NYC area should be operated by 747s or A340s, but then I am biased....

User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3008 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 17090 times:

A couple of people have mentioned it, but I'll say it again--there's no question that EWR has more domestic service than JFK, but JFK doesn't NEED more domestic services. LGA is even closer to Manhattan, is extremely user friendly, and offers flights to just about everywhere between here and Denver. Because both airports cater primarily to O&D traffic rather than connecting passengers, this division between international and domestic flights is not a problem. Saying EWR is "better" than JFK because it has more flights to ATL or ORD is just plain silly.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4593 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 17050 times:


FYI just to stay on topic, remember that NYC or the PANYNJ has no influence over what type of aircraft serve what route. Those decisions are made in Dallas, Chicago, Houston, Atlanta etc. So if you were uncomfortable on a RJ to LGA or flying transcon on a 737, it wasn't our fault!


Yes, that was the original intent of this topic... JFK seems to have got the more prestigious planes over the years when comparing to EWR route for route, airline for airline, as chosen by the airlines themselves.

However, it's nice to see how the topic has evolved!


User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 17031 times:

Well, regardless of what equipment the beancounters in the south and midwest send to our airports, and regardless of what airport you arrive at, NYC will roll out the red carpet for you, even if it might be a little tattered these days! Internationally, I think the best comparison I can make to EWR vs JFK is LGW vs LHR, of course London has several other airports, but while both of these have international service, history has made LHR the prestige airport for London just as it has made JFK the prestige airport for NYC. It's no coincidence that connecting the two was the main function of the Concorde  Smile

25 Mikephotos : Mikephotos - AFAIK there is no subway at JFK. Danny....you might want to check that. I'm on the subway (A train) Monday thru Friday and pass Howard Be
26 Post contains images Mikephotos : Many pax heading to one of those "business centers" would be likely to use LGA instead of JFK or EWR. I agree, I like to consider LGA as JFK's "domest
27 Krisair747 : As far as inbound delays, you can't pay me enough to fly into EWR! Last night flying DL CVG-EWR, a little wind in EWR, and we are strapped with a 2 ho
28 AeroAussie : I would take EWR over JFK anyday. First of all, getting there is SO much easier. NJTransit/Amtrak....need I say more? At least the AirTrain service is
29 RiverVisualNYC : AirTrain JFK will be starting on the 17th I believe, per yesterday's NY Times. There are some other threads here about it. It will be all new and both
30 STT757 : "Last night flying DL CVG-EWR, a little wind in EWR, and we are strapped with a 2 hour ATC hold. Horrible. At least JFK has the runway space." True bu
31 AirJamPanAm : FoxBravo.. as a fellow New Yorker. that was a dead on assessment of the situation! Well done... everyone else should re-read!
32 Mikephotos : True but JFK has one disadvantage that causses frequent morning delays but rarely effects EWR or JFK, Fog. JFK is right on the Atlantic Ocean (separat
33 STT757 : Fog is not really a Winter problem, but definetly Spring and Summer.
34 FoxBravo : I have never had a single one of my many flights in or out of JFK affected by fog. Nor'easters, yes, thunderstorms, yes, but fog, no. This is getting
35 Post contains images Petazulu : As a fellow life long New Yorker- I agree with FoxBravo as well. LGA is the domestic terminal fo JFK. Comparing domestic services is a useless endeavo
36 SHUPirate1 : Petazulu-that's EXACTLY (caps for emphasis) why it would be a GREAT (again, caps for emphasis) idea for the PANYNJ to build an inside-security transfe
37 STT757 : "SST757 that EWR was the larger, more prestigious and more diverse international gateway for travellers (especially business) in NYC- which patently w
38 Mikephotos : Fog is not really a Winter problem, but definetly Spring and Summer. I don't recall very many foggy mornings during the summer, one or two here and th
39 STT757 : "inside-security transfer system" While at some point the JFK Airtrain may very well be extended from Jamaica to LGA (Charles Gargano has hinted at su
40 SHUPirate1 : STT-How about building an entirely new system, that only makes stops at the Delta and American terminals at the respective airports (since virtually e
41 STT757 : Mike your misquoting me, I said.. " as often happens along the shore fog sets in some mornings " Shore means shorelines, from Rockway to Long Beach Is
42 STT757 : SHUPirate1, Connecting LGA and JFK is a great and obvious idea, however they are not going to do it just for two airlines. The current JFK Airtrain co
43 N62NA : Great replies everybody. Thanks much for a spirited debate in this thread. BUT, for those who have posted in this thread on things BESIDES my original
44 Mikephotos : Ah, but of those "24" days, maybe only 2 or 3 of them are severe enough to cause delays. Remember, we are in the age of hi-tech airliners that don't n
45 SHUPirate1 : While I would bet that it would benefit more than 1,000 people (undoubtedly more people from the lower midwest would connect through LGA/JFK rather th
46 Mikephotos : BUT, for those who have posted in this thread on things BESIDES my original topic, (i.e. which airport is foggier, which airport has more domestic fli
47 RiverVisualNYC : N62NA- It's all history, and a little bit of New Yorker pride that makes the difference. JFK used to be Idlewild and was the international gateway to
48 STT757 : EWR is 15 miles from Mid-town Manhattan, JFK is 15 Miles from Mid-Town Manhattan. To get to EWR you take the NJ Turnpike which beats any Queens highwa
49 STT757 : "It's all history" True.. First Transcontinental Airline route was from Newark.. First NYC airport was Newark First Airport with a Control tower (anyw
50 Post contains images Mikephotos : Newark might have been first, but lots of airports do it better hahahah just had to STT757 I still think we were being on topic right?? Mike
51 Post contains images FoxBravo : This is exactly what I was talking about. It's futile to try and argue about which airport is "better." Sure, you can compare specific areas, but it's
52 Lhr001 : Keep in mind that Newark has for many years been known in the New York metro area as being “The Airport in The Ghetto”! Unfortunately, that term a
53 RiverVisualNYC : JFK does rock LHR001, in fact it's the only airport around here that can even match the history and prestige of, well, LHR....The Beatles arrived at J
54 N62NA : Ok, the topic is about EWR vs JFK and you don't think comparing delays at either airport on topic? Actually, EWR vs JFK is just the headline (you kno
55 STT757 : "Keep in mind that Newark has for many years been known in the New York metro area as being “The Airport in The Ghetto”!" No one I know refers to
56 STT757 : "and EWR is constrained by the Jersey Turnpike and the city of Newark itself" Downtown Newark is two miles from Newark Airport, it's not a problem. Th
57 RiverVisualNYC : I am sure the ghetto comment had nothing to do with race, and more to do with crime statistics. NYC is America's safest large city, while Newark as a
58 STT757 : "JFK, unlike Newark is becoming a very modern very highly regarded " Ha, give me Terminal C with 57 gates and it's own FIS facility over any JFK termi
59 RiverVisualNYC : Terminal C at EWR is good because it's CO's showplace for international service, this has more to do with decisions made in Houston than in the NYC ar
60 STT757 : "I am sure the ghetto comment had nothing to do with race" I think it has every thing to do with race, Im sorry but there are no "ghettos" near Newark
61 STT757 : "in fact I imagine most like less gates, because it means a shorter walk from check-in to the aircraft." And less flights.
62 Post contains images RiverVisualNYC : OK, since it's deteriorating into a meaningless free for all like an A vs B forum, I will leave it to those not from the NYC area to experience our ai
63 STT757 : "please direct me to the website of the Newark tourist board so I can check out their visitor counts for the holiday season" Sure but lets make it fai
64 Post contains images RiverVisualNYC : Tiffany's, Bloomingdale's, and Saks all got their start and have their flagship stores in Manhattan, which like Queens is part of NYC I believe Toys R
65 STT757 : Atleast Toys R US are not bankrupt, cannot say the same about their counterpart across the Hudson (FAO ).
66 N62NA : Help! How do I terminate this topic??? (kidding) I never thought E vs J would degenerate into an A vs B slugfest!
67 RiverVisualNYC : True, like the major airlines, it's hard to compete with a low cost, no frills competitor. Anyway, since alot of people in this forum are not from the
68 Post contains images STT757 :
69 Rjpieces : Well said RiverVisual...but at the same time remember that true New Yorkers are people who live in New York City and have lived here for a while. I ha
70 Post contains images RiverVisualNYC : Hey RJ, can we at least all agree to be Giants and/or Jets fans here at least?
71 STT757 : "Anyhow STT, you can't even compare NJ and NYC. NYC is the capital of the world. While NJ is definitly part of that, NJ will always be the place acros
72 Rjpieces : Like I said, NJ is part of New York City. Thousands of people commute there and it is totally part of New York. But NYC is still very unique and speci
73 STT757 : "Thousands of people commute there and it is totally part of New York." Interesting tidbit.. 54% of people who commute to Manhattan from outside NYC a
74 Cicadajet : I think murders in Queens and Newark are fairly comparable. 3.8 per 100,000 in Queens in 2001 (but that was a great improvement on previous years) and
75 WindowSeat : OK, lets not talk about murders in towns, we are talking about airports, remember, which one is more prestigious or better. I have flown international
76 Post contains images Tommy767 : "Keep in mind that Newark has for many years been known in the New York metro area as being “The Airport in The Ghetto”!" Oh definitely tr
77 Mikephotos : 54% of people who commute to Manhattan from outside NYC are from New Jersey If NJ is so great then why commute to NY to work? Why..cause NY is where y
78 PROSA : I don't know of too many people that fly to EWR because they are visiting the city of Newark. Again, the City of Newark has many prestigiuous Corporat
79 BN747 : N62NA, I love how you summed up the JFK vs EWR thread in your opening..it's exactly how EWR started off. RiverVisualNYC, I like your 'JFK vs EWR - LHR
80 N62NA : I REALLY get mad how many transcons there are to california from JFK on 767s! its overwhelming! I wish EWR would get spoiled like that! Yes, me too w
81 PROSA : By the way..how much will AirTrain cost? Anyone? $5, plus applicable subway or LIRR fare.
82 RayChuang : I think that JFK is not as bad as it used to be. The rebuilding of many terminals at that airport plus the upcoming JFK Airtrain will make it very con
83 Setjet : Two of my more memorable New York Airport experiences: A couple of years ago I was one of the passengers from the BA Concorde flight LHR-JFK. We were
84 Levg79 : As an author of the originas SAS at JFK thread, I could never imagine that it would ever go into anything like this. In my opinion, this became a war
85 Setjet : Just read the last two posts and you will see that this is not only a EWRvsJFK topic but that some people are still sticking to the point.
86 Klwright69 : N62NA, go to CO's website and you will see that CO's LAX-EWR flights are becoming more 767 dominated.
87 Petazulu : stt 757, You claimed at one point that it takes you 15 minutes from the west side highway to Newark? What were you smoking? Were you in a helicopter?
88 Lhr001 : STT757, It is most amusing to see you on here.... The “ghetto” that surrounds Newark airport has been known of for years! In addition there is a c
89 Post contains images Mlsrar : Flying into Newark instead of JFK is like eating at a fast food joint vs eating at the Cafe Pierre! Personal opinion, nothing more. Do you know how ma
90 Klwright69 : Lhr001, I agree JFK is a fascinating "crossroads, cosmopolitan port of entry" kind of airport that is fun to visit with all the improvements, exotic a
91 Mlsrar : Beware Klwright, you'll be chastised for considering a LCC and associating said carriers with JFK!
92 Lhr001 : STT757, My error... I missed your posting about Queens... and the little comment thrown in referring to the only retail store in Queens being -FootLoc
93 Mlsrar : Are you aware that the cost of living in Queens is 2 x that of Newark? So that makes Queens better, JFK better, LGA better? Are you aware that over 10
94 Lhr001 : MIsrar, It is funny that you would even throw something into the New York City market! Do you have anything to add to the topic.... Look at the topic
95 N62NA : As an author of the originas SAS at JFK thread, I could never imagine that it would ever go into anything like this. In my opinion, this became a war
96 Post contains images Mlsrar : Look at the topic and instead of trying to nitpick at every entry in the forum try ot add something Not every entry, just yours. The reason I have ta
97 Levg79 : By the way, if anyone is interested, EWR is located within the borders of Elizabeth, not Newark.
98 Lhr001 : MIsrar, If you would review the previous posts you would find that it wasclearly stated by a user.... STT757... that JFK is an "immigrant" airport and
99 Tommy767 : "By the way.... New Jersey is below New York standards.. ask any New Yorkers whos trash is dumbed in New Jersey! The New York/New Jersey battle has be
100 Petazulu : where did this dicussion go? Why are you all turning this into a New York vs. New Jersey flame war. It's beyond childish. This thread needs to be shut
101 Lhr001 : New York vs. New Jersey is one of the oldest and most passionate fights out there! You had to have known that anything that has to compare or compete
102 STT757 : "A alternate airport with little or no interest to others!" Alternate airport, stop drinking the coolaide! EWR for the last 7 years has handled more p
103 STT757 : "Are you aware that there are some of the most widely used Television/Movie production studios in Astoria, Queens? " Oh sure.. There's Silver Cup wher
104 Lhr001 : Newark.... Cheap Fare New York/JFK.... Real Airlines, Real Service STT757.... Replie to the following if you may! ***By the way.... New Jersey is belo
105 Post contains images Rjpieces : jeez guys... LHR001, a.) EVERYONE in this counry, not most, are descendants of immigrants. Nobody living in the US, minus Native Americans, have ances
106 STT757 : "The “ghetto” that surrounds Newark airport has been known of for years!" The "Ghettos" of Queens and Brooklyn make Newark look like Vermont, trus
107 STT757 : "It is funny the way that the Newark Airport Authority can market themselves as being New York/Newark" Who's that?.. You mean the Port Authority of NY
108 STT757 : Fact.. New Jersey is the Wealthiest State in the Nation Fact.. Northern New Jersey is home to some of the Largest US Firms, as well as the North Ameri
109 BN747 : Petazulu, "Another poster said Friday nights, the lincoln tunnel is less crowded going into Manhattan because most people are leaving. Um- what? This
110 Klwright69 : I will restate my previous post. The only flight from my city to JFK is a red-eye. Before JetBlue came along, there were NO nonstops for a long time.
111 Post contains images BN747 : 'And 99,999 of those commuting know how to spell Manhattan' Mlsrar, That one had me LMAO....almosy killed me BN747
112 BN747 : Agreed...there's no way EWR is on par with OAK, SJC,ETC...with the traffic that EWR fields..it's out does every airport except JFK, LAX, MIA and ORD a
113 Lhr001 : And I am sure most of you "assholes" would like to rebuild over the World Trade Center as well! Yeah, so much for civil... this topic is a mess! Next!
114 STT757 : The comparisons of Oakland, San Jose etc. is really poor. Even the Gatwick/ Heathrow comparison is not good because Heathrow is tightly regulated and
115 Petazulu : BN747, I think we agree about JFK. While it does have traffic- even when it is terrible, it's still no more than 30 minutes to an hour from Manahttan.
116 BN747 : True, EWR is better rounded but it will never possess JFK's 'prestige'. That has a lot to do with it's surroundings and JFK deeply rooted history sinc
117 Captaink : ALL i can say is WOW>. New Yorkers are really patriotic.. I have nothing to say about EWR, never flown into that airport and have not need or desire t
118 Post contains images Rjpieces : What a nice post Captaink I am glad you love New York as well and hope you have more opportunities to travel here ( via EWR or JFK ). I think this arg
119 BN747 : If you 'love' aviation as your profile suggest....you would want to take a look at EWR. It's too big to over look. I love aviation too and out of many
120 Post contains images Mikephotos : Well, talkin' airports you know I never turn down shooting at EWR or any airport for that matter Long live those crazy SoCal drivers....some actually
121 Post contains images BN747 : Anyone who claims to 'love aviation' and willfully bypasses a major airport..should have his camera taken away and be forbidden to photograph again! A
122 Post contains links and images Captaink : Hey some of the nicest photos are taken in EWR. Guess what city we see in the background? View Large View MediumPhoto © Carlos Borda As said they
123 Klwright69 : Rjpieces, that is a good post. EWR does have history as well even though JFK has some specialness about it. Ironic that the person who says this his t
124 RiverVisualNYC : I was gone for a day or so, and have seen how this discussion has evolved, but for those of you NOT from the NYC area, please keep in mind we New York
125 Jcxp15 : Everyone always complains about LGA and JFK having the worst delays, when in fact EWR is 2nd worst in the US.... Just something pretty interesting. Ne
126 STT757 : "Arlene Salac, a spokeswoman for the Federal Aviation Administration, attributed most of the delays at Newark to bad weather, both locally and elsewhe
127 STT757 : "You want to compare Newark to New York? Please!!!" For the 10th time.. Im not comparing Newark to NYC, Im comparing Newark to Jamaica Queens where JF
128 Lhr001 : STT757, Still bashing Queens..... buddy boy! From reading your most recent post you seem to be a New York Turncoat! If so, we dont want nor do we need
129 STT757 : "The Concorde never seemed to callNewark home... By the way... The Concorde, which I guess you have never flown on since it departs JFK... Has been a
130 Post contains links and images STT757 : Teterboro.. Even the Brits want to duplicate Teterboro's success .. http://www.awgnet.com/shownews/02nbaa/fbos10.htm
131 Post contains images Rjpieces : STT...big deal that JFK is in Queens. You make it sound like it is a risk to fly to JFK since some of the areas surrounding it are bad neighborhoods.
132 STT757 : "STT...big deal that JFK is in Queens. You make it sound like it is a risk to fly to JFK since some of the areas surrounding it are bad neighborhoods.
133 Flyguy1 : JFK itself is not really in Jamaica, it is quite close though. Many parts of Southern Queens are called Jamiaca, but really are not. The true Jamaica
134 Rjpieces : "I think it says alot about JFK that there are more flights between JFK and Guayanna, then there are between JFK and Chicago (the US's Second largest
135 Jm017 : I had a VERY long reply to some of the comments that have been made in this thread, but it was lost. I am forced to summarize: 1. As a former new york
136 Post contains images Mikephotos : Newark is safer than Jamaica Queens, that was my point and Im sticking to it. I come to this conclusion from working in both areas, folks come to conc
137 Jm017 : Someone made a point of this and it is true: that JFK has a dearth of domestic flights is no big deal. Its emphasis is obviously international traffic
138 Rjpieces : For September 2003: JFK 67% O&D EWR 78% O&D LGA 92% O&D Remember that lots of people get off International flights and connect at JFK.
139 STT757 : "Why do you think Newark is the car-jackin' capital of the world? They are also the highest (unless that has changed) car theft area no? You don't hea
140 Csavel : Well as a proud New Yorker who scoffs at anything west of the Hudson, the facts remain JFK is the past and EWR is the future, only Jetblue and better
141 RayBolt : I've lived in NJ for over 10 yrs now and love EWR. I've never had any trouble there, and with the monorail going its pretty easy to get around. The ne
142 Flymia : I have flown to both. I took off from EWR once with AA and Arrived and Departed in JFK twice with DL and UA. I must say i been to JFK and EWR at night
143 Airways6max : They're both terrible. Delayed flights, ugly terminals, poor service.
144 STT757 : Csavel said it better than I could when he said.. "EWR grows mostly because most people from Manhattan can use both EWR and JFK or LGA, but there are
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