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Is The 777 Losing Ground?  
User currently offlineA380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6197 times:

What's with the 777 sales?

In 2003 (through the beginning of December), 3 777 have been sold. During the same period, 33 A340 and 52 A330 have been sold. Is there an explanation?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

are we trying to start an a vs. b war?


Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6156 times:

You should be careful of taking a single year's figues as evidence of a trend. For all we know, the 777 could log 80 orders next year, and the A330/340 10. It would be better to look at a trend over a number of years. Now, if the 777 logs few orders next year, and the year after, then yes, something is obviously up (or down)...

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6154 times:

During the same period, 33 A340 and 52 A330 have been sold

did ya also happen to notice that nearly all of that came from a single enigmatic airline?


While there have indeed been slow 777 sales this year, do recall that 26 of the most expensive type were placed with EK (by lease)....

Not to mention BA's expectant order for twenty or so of the same model... ditto SQ & QR; plus RG taking on two used.


User currently offlineThales007 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

I agree....

historical orders for 777:
1998: 69
1999: 35
2000: 116
2001: 30
2002: 32
2003: 3

the 777 isn't losing ground to the A340... as VirginFlyer noted above, you can't take a single year of data and extrapolate a trend- note in particular the huge gap between 1999 and 2000 sales


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

No because 2004 will see a big year with orders from BA,CX and SQ amongst others.

User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5824 times:

Taken today from the websites...
Current 2003 sales figures:

Boeing: orders / deliveries:
717: 8 / 11
737: 195 / 155
747: 3 / 18
757: -1 / 14
767: 10 / 24
777: 3 / 36
Total orders / deliveries: 218 / 258

Airbus: orders / deliveries:
A318: 0 / 7
A319: 44 / 64
A320: 95 / 106
A321: 7 / 33
A300: 6 / 8
A310: 0 / 0
A330: 52 / 28
A340: 33 / 25
A380: 26 / 0
Total orders / deliveries: 263 / 271

Have fun trying to find out what these figures mean actually...

Forgot these:
Total orders 777 until today: 622
Total orders 340 until today: 345 (253 delivered so far)
Total orders Boeing (all AC all yrs): 15845
Total orders Airbus (all AC all yrs): 4865

All based on figures about commercial jetliners.

Do not critisize me for anything about this post, I just added figures, did not put a meaning into the post...might do so later on... Smile



[Edited 2003-12-06 13:27:05]


Putana da Seatbeltz!
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5316 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5777 times:

I'm confident as the market picks up so will sales of the 777.

The last couple of years haven't exactly been fantastic for wide body sales (EK exempt)

ANstar


User currently offlineGamarocchi From Italy, joined Nov 2003, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

I think it is losing a little of market share but the problem with this year's orders is just that because of the bad economy the widebody orders have been generally low. Hadn't EK chosen to buy Airbus, Airbus' sales wouldn't look so strong. If Boeing is smart enough to wait, when the economy picks up again there will be lots of new orders for the 777 and I hope also for the 747 (I am not so sure that BA and JAL and ANA are going to choose the 380, and also I think that not all the 747 they have are going to be replaced with 777s)

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

The B777 is far from losing ground. As some have already mentioned, we can expect huge orders for the model in 2004, I expect the B773ER to be used as a major B747 replacement.


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineVs744 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2001, 677 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

Didnt easyjet place an order with airbus for 100+ A319's?

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5016 times:

I'm just wondering.......Is there anyone out there who doesn't like the B777? It seems like everyone I know (me included) loves this plane.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

What's not to love....?

  • Most technologically advanced aircraft on the market
  • Designed in a process (CATIA) like no other commercial aircraft before it
  • 772ER was for a long time the longest-ranged aircraft in commercial service
  • 772LR will eventually reclaim that title
  • The driving force in transpacific ETOPS, just as the 767 was for the Atlantic
  • The enormous engines (particularly the GE90)
  • etc. The list goes on and on.....

  • User currently offlineToady From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 724 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

    "Is there anyone out there who doesn't like the B777?"
    Yes - Noel Forgeard Big grin


    User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4966 times:

    ROFL, great Toady  Big thumbs up

    Reminds me that I left out:
  • outsold its competition, in shorter time  Big grin

  • User currently offlinePaddy From Taiwan, joined Jul 2003, 390 posts, RR: 0
    Reply 15, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4771 times:

    This is a bit of a digression, but it does pertain to 777 orders: There were rumors that NW was going to be purchasing 773ER's or A345/6's sometime in the next few years to replace their old 742's. Is this still likely or have they decided that the smaller A330's will be adequate? If they are getting something bigger do you think it will be the 777 or the A340? I would love to see an A345 or B773ER in their new c/s!

    User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 16, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4565 times:

    AFAIK, they ruled out the A346 and the A380. It is between more 744s, more A330s, or 777s....I have the feeling they will go for the 777. If they do that they can later introduce the 7E7, assuming the two have commonality.

    User currently offlineAlessandro From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 17, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

    I think the B777 and B747 are the 2 of Boeings current planes that have most future, despite the good sales of the B737.
    I hope to see a B777 tanker in the future as well, depends how long the B767 tanker will be around...


    User currently offlineCapt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 1
    Reply 18, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

    certainly, one year of aircraft orders is not indicative of a trend. and looking at total order bookings, the 777 outsells the a340.

    but in truth, orders are not as important as people think. one should look at deliveries for an indication of production and popularity. airlines frequently enter and exit orders, and often with little warning. this is particularly true with large airlines that have other orders with the same manufacturer.

    this is not to say that orders are not important, they are. but production and delivery are a truer reflection of a manufacturer's position, as revenue is not fully realized until delivery. looking at deliveries, the 777 outpaced the a340.


    User currently offlineBobrayner From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 6
    Reply 19, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

    A cheaper dollar should help sales.

    I'm surprised that this hasn't already enabled a few extra sales - we just have to wait and see.



    Cunning linguist
    User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 615 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 20, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4196 times:

    Capt 078 made a good pint, took the words out of my mouth. The orders isn't what counts, its the delieveries made that counts.


    ETSN Baber, USN
    User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
    Reply 21, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

    Most technologically advanced aircraft on the market

    Typical ConcordeBoy blabber. One could easily argue that the 10-years-newer 345 or 346 are, and that the 773ER will be comparable when it finally enters service.

    I have the feeling they will go for the 777. If they do that they can later introduce the 7E7, assuming the two have commonality.

    Why? They've just started taking 330s, they certainly won't want to throw them all away until they've flown at least 50 years.

    There is no evidence one way or the other on the 777 and 346. They have already disqualified the 772ER, and for no other reason than they disliked the pratt performance. That certainly doesn't give either the 773ER or A346 an advantage, or disadvantage.

    N


    User currently offlineShenzhen From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 1712 posts, RR: 2
    Reply 22, posted (11 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4056 times:

    Didn't KAL place a LOI for 777s at Paris. This should be firmed up in the near future. In addition to the Singapore, BA, Qatar orders, I wouldn't be surprised if ILFC and GECAS make a significant order in 2004. They did lease all the -300ERS that were on order to Emirates. 2005 should see some orders from the airlines based in the US, as they come out of recession.

    I think in addition to the quantity of the orders, people should also look at the quality of the airlines buying.

    Cheers




    User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
    Reply 23, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3798 times:

    One could easily argue that the 10-years-newer 345 or 346 are, and that the 773ER will be comparable when it finally enters service.

    *slap*

    Dear dumb Neil, you just made my point for me  Big grin


    User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10817 posts, RR: 9
    Reply 24, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

    The original post is of cause pointless. The fall in orders for the 777 might be extreme, but so was the rise in 777 orders in the last years.
    It´s just cyclical. If the 773ER is a hit in terms of performance, I bet (even if I don´t like that aircraft) we´ll see a good sales performance in the next 2 - 3 years, although nowhere near the untypical year 2000 boom. I don´t think the 777 will loose ground to the A340/330s in average sales. There is no reason for it to be afraid of that.

    Just remember that the 747 is around since 1969 in its various variants- and had its top order years 1988/89!



    User currently offlineNudelhirsch From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 1438 posts, RR: 19
    Reply 25, posted (11 years 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

    As the Dollar is not too high at the moment and boeing has potential to outsource some minor works to customer countries as a nice little "persuading-gift"...as airbus doesn't have (was discussed here before), it's not completely unlikely that Boeing will face some orders. then most LCC still stick to 737 technology, some of them still flying 732s. This could be a point for Boeing. Then I heard somewhere, that some people are speculating about a 717 order from NWA...don't know where I got this from... Nuts
    742s are being phased out, so 777 and 744 face some need as soon the industrie is closer to having recovered.
    Then, one cannot forget, that Airbus as an international consortium with quite some political interests as well...every CEO would deny, but somehow the carriers of the partnership countries are somewhat supposed to buy Airbus. As the A vs B war has not found a winner yet, one can probably say, they both make great aircrafts, so the need for a 742 substitute and the Dollar situation might help a bit.
    And sure, taking orders is one thing, payment is upon shipping, so every undelivered is just some wasted bucks (the internet-guy who had to put the order online, as soon as it came in, the ink still wet...) so nobody should judge by orders.



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