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Air Canada: Order For 105 Jets By X-mas  
User currently offlineCessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 19
Posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17629 times:

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Business/reuters20031206_18.html

Still nothing about what kind of jets though, but Milton says the choice has already been made. It's just about "finalising paperwork" now. I'm sure that by "finalising paperwork" they mean finding someone to bum money off of. That won't be a problem I think. Plenty of masochistic entities willing to dump oodles of moulah into the aviation world. "Can't they think of anything better to do with their money?" I keep asking myself. But I am happy AC has a chance at surviving.

Come on... 717... come on! (Crossing fingers)

Grégoire


101 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1922 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 17440 times:

this is the most pivital order of the year. You've got a lot of people thinking this will really push the E170, etc in the limelight.

Lots of people hoping it will get the 717 going for a LONG time.

And Canadians hoping their home airline doesn't screw them out of billions of $$$$.


I'm rooting for 717, I'd love to see a -300, but still, this is going to be a good day for someone.

George



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17363 times:

Why would AC order the 717? It makes too much long-term sense. AC still lives in the short-term, and that's why the order will be split between Airbus and BBD, I'm afraid. Just a guess of course.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17274 times:

Hmm, this article cannot seem to make up its mind. It seems to imply that 250 is a done deal in some parts, but then in others, it seems to imply that 250 is only speculation.


...if I had to guess, it'll probably end up something along the lines of 150 firm, and 100 options.


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

We can speculate and dream all we want...we will simply have to wait and see what the order mix will be.  Smile

In the meantime,
1. AC continues to lose money,
2. AC's competitors continue to make money & make inroads into AC territory.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinePlane Holland From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 456 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17128 times:

bet ya it gonna be another airbus.  Smile

cheap deal, mark my words

rgds, Plane Holland


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17089 times:

I don't think that a company trading in bankruptcy should be allowed to go off and buy loads of new jets while they are unable to pay their current debts, not paying their suppliers and are losing a lot of money on a daily basis. This smells of Swiss, who more or less did the same thing and they ended up back in the same dire situation

Jeremy


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17076 times:

Yup, Airbus will win, potentially not with the A318 but rather more A319's. And they'll get them really cheap. Air Canada has the same mentality as being buying GM cars ... 0% financing, 0 down for 60 months. Maybe they're getting a deal like that? Only way to sell inferior products. (By the way, not implying Airbus stinks, I like Airbus as much as Boeing).


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineAirways6max From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 17053 times:

A bankrupt airline going on a buying spree? I'm surprised anyone was willing to give away over 100 planes to an airline that is so deep in the hole financially.

User currently offlineAviationMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16836 times:

Swiss isn't bankrupt (me knocks on wood), they bought those A340s right after the company was formed. Right now they could use some money, but they aren't bankrupt... As for AC ordering 105 jets, I hope they choose the B717  Smile

User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16813 times:

The A319 an inferior product? Smoked some real bad stuff today, haven't you?


Regards
Udo


User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 859 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16815 times:

318, c´mon......318, c´mon
 Laugh out loud

Michael/SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16781 times:

The dream order for me would be B717s to replace the 732 routes and E170s to replace the 146 routes, to open new routes and to increase frequency on long, thin routes. But we'll know reality soon enough.

User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 16633 times:

Sorry Udo, no thanks! Share with others if you wish.

Regarding the inferior product comment, if you read my post, I said that I liked A and B equally. That's not a politically correct statement, it is my true opinion. Given that, the A319 (and A318) is an inferior product in the sense that it does not meet the needs as established by Air Canada to offer less capacity for short haul routes. The 717 and Embraer (and to a lesser extent the CRJ 700's) are more ideal for Air Canada. Hence, it makes the Airbus product inferior in this role.




"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16367 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16481 times:

We have to remember that it's not necessarily AC's choice, it's Star's choice.

I think it will be the 717 and the EMB-170/175 since these are the only aircraft that AC, SAS, OS & LH have all specified an interest in.





Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8037 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16462 times:

I don't think AC would order the A318 unless Airbus really gives AC one heck of a sweetheart deal.  Smile The A318 is too heavy a plane for just seating over 100 passengers.

I wouldn't be surprised that the order is split between the Boeing 717-200 and Bombardier CRJ900. I don't think AC wants the Embraer 170/190 series for political reasons (e.g., Bombardier jobs).


User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 16454 times:

From my heart I trully hope it's the 717 however in air canada's condition.I'm not sure if boeing is going to be happy if air canada reaches a point of not being able to pay for the aircrafts for the rest of it's time.

we will see but......GO BOEING!



Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16437 times:

I agree with Artsyman. It seems like the last thing a bankrupt company should be doing is making huge capital investments in airplanes. I have almost no understanding of how bankrupt companies operate. I am curious as to how AC justifies this to creditors who hold IOUs.



User currently offlineCb777 From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1216 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16336 times:

My guess would be the 717. This is due each airline would now have a fleet type that they now will all have and had not before. Making all aircraft equal to be moved around as needed.
CRJ/EMB/A31X would be too political for all.


User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 595 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16345 times:

Although I agree that the Embraer would be a great choice, I doubt it will be the airplane. Commonality will dictate the CR705 unless they are doing a complete short haul fleet renewal. As for the 100 seater my vote goes for the 717, i doubt it will be 318/9.

User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16324 times:

Hmmm, this is interesting!!! Almost every post so far wants the B717! And so do I....It is unfortunate, but the Star order really will determine the future of that wonderful plane. If Star orders it the line will be open for a long time, the -300 will be developed, and the 717 will look better for other potential operators.

Can you see Air Canada not buying Bombardier though? I agree that the Embraers would be a lot better, but imagine all the newspaper headlines?


User currently offlineRockyRacoon From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16320 times:

Please for the love of god, ac buy some 717s.  Smile

Tim


User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16301 times:

Has Lufthansa mentioned anything about waiting an extra couple of years for the FD-728? I think they were planning on buying a bunch of them before Fairchild Dornier went bankrupt, but if and when Fairchild Delong or whatever the company launched the 728, I think a Lufthansa order would really help the company out, and Lufthansa would get the aircraft they always wanted.

User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 16253 times:

Several posts have mentioned that a company in AC's situation should not be making huge capital investments. However, where did it say that Air Canada was actually going to BUY these planes. I thought they were going to be leased.

User currently offlineL1011Fan From United States of America, joined May 2003, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 16153 times:

Same here...go 717! I am really hoping for the 713.

25 N79969 : Whether these new airplanes are purchased or leased, they will require large and regular outflows of cash. Of course, I am pulling for the Boeing 717
26 Jj : I think they'll go for the 717. I hope this is THE order that the 717 needs to become a successful jet liners. It would make sense h,owever to split t
27 Post contains images Captcjmac : C'mon 757!!! That way Boeing will be forced to keep the line open!!
28 CanadaEH : For an airline that.... a) needs to fund its $1B pension shortfall within 8 years. b) needs to raise $4B for new aircraft; and c) become a profitable
29 Bicoastal : It will be Airbus. Austrian Airlines is the lead negotiator on behalf of the group of airlines. SAS, Lufthhansa, Air Canada and Austrian Group are all
30 FraT : I'm going with Plane Holland and Bicostal. It's gonna be Airbus. Even though it might not be the optimal choice for AC (to big A/C for the Jazz routes
31 Lhr001 : Bye Bye Boeing... Hello Airbus! Air Canada, will be replacing its aging fleet of 767 aircraft! In addition look for aircraft to expend apon grown with
32 Post contains images Cessnapimp : I'm not sure they are so eager to replace the 767 fleet in the immediate. If so that's news to me. As for the 318, I cannot imagine this. I still thin
33 FlyABR : and didn't the CEO of AC say not too long ago that boeing was not the UNDERDOG in this competition...makes you wonder who was...
34 Gigneil : In addition look for aircraft to expend apon grown within North America! What? N
35 Caribb : I predict the CRJ and 717.. my two cents for whatever it's worth... as for apron growth (?).... I guess the longest plane wins on that level... for wh
36 Yyz717 : I predict the CRJ and 717.. my two cents for whatever it's worth... I agree with Caribb. CRJ-700 or 705 and 712/713 is my wish, if not prediction. But
37 Crj 900 : Well here's more interesting news, AC is taking 8 747s(they are getting them for a steal) they are asking the ACPA group to fly them at A340 rates of
38 Captaingomes : Crj900, the 747 story gets even more complicated! I love the 744's and hope they do stay in the fleet for a while. I also hope they can get the dedica
39 Crj 900 : Oh i agree that the 340-500 is a great product but comfort-wise I find the 47 far better, I guess I just have a soft spot for them.
40 Captaingomes : Well, if you want to talk about comfort, as much as I appreciate the majestic beauty of the 747, the A340 to me is more comfortable. The 2-4-2 Y class
41 Yyz717 : Where are the 747's coming from? UA? Will AC return all 343's when the 744's arrive? Otherwise, this will simply be a huge increase in seat capacity w
42 Crj 900 : I have no clue, came as a surprise to me as well, this could be part of Mr.Li's plan to increase AC's international presence. I'm sure the 340's are s
43 Awschucksflyer : I don't mean to be rude.. but PEOPLE...AIR CANADA is NOT GOING TO ORDER THE 717!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why WOULD they?!?!?
44 TK : The A340 is FAR more comfortable. I don't know where you get the impression that the 747 is better than the A340 in terms of comfort. This is the very
45 Planemaker : From what I have heard from AC, it will be the CRJ-705's (for political reasons) and the E190's (for operational reasons). If you recall, Milton said
46 Crj 900 : Well, like i said it's a personal preference and a professional one from someone who flies for a living, remember I'm on airplanes over 80hrs a month,
47 Post contains images Crj 900 : well Planemaker that would be VERY cool if it indeed comes to reality, the best of both...
48 Goose : Trust me, I don't want to sound like a typical a.net teen where I wont fly if it doesn't have a PTV, but surely Air Canada must be competitive, especi
49 Captaingomes : Goose, I'm sure if AC really wanted it, they could find another supplier? Anyways, I'm talking more with respect to having PTV's with video on demand
50 Gigneil : Delta is offering a Dish Networks branded programming on the one Song aircraft that supports it, and Dish has better visibility to Canadian airspace a
51 CanadaEH : Re 747's: I've heard the rumour of Air Canada picking up some used 747's too. There's certainly a lot parked in the desert right now, and I'd be willi
52 Kanebear : Nope, there's also Starchoice owned partially by Rogers.
53 Post contains images Goose : Actually, StarChoice is owned by Shaw Communications, not Rogers. However, StarChoice's system is quite different from Bell ExpressVu. The Bell system
54 717fan : Come on guys, some wants the 717 (like me) other the A318 or Embraer or Bombardier, some have economical facts and some political etc., but nobody of
55 Samurai 777 : This is an interesting announcement - all they say is they'll order "105 RJs" by Xmas, but as for the actual aircraft types they want to get their han
56 Racko : I'm hoping for the 728 and the 717 - and yes, I know that it's impossible, still, I want to see the 2 projects continued.
57 L1011Fan : So if AC does not order the 717 does that mean the rest of Star won't either?
58 Bryston : AFAIK, 728's are not even in the race..... My prediction goes for a mix of CRJ700 and A318, for fleet commonality, but more importantly, for political
59 CV990 : Hi! It looks very clear to me that Airbus will win this order and it will get an excelent boost for the A318!!! I can see clearly the 318 in Air Cana
60 Rjpieces : I really doubt the A318 will be ordered. Even an insanely low price won't make up for the years of bad operating costs the plane would bring. A bad ch
61 Trvlr : Is there any substantial evidence for why the 717 is not in fact a likely choice for the order? All I can see is that the 717 has not been as successf
62 CV990 : Hi! When I look to SAS, yes I must agree that the 717 would be the right model, but it looks that it came a little late and SAS already opted for the
63 Whiteguy : I'm hoping we'll see the 717 and EMB-170. I used to love working the DC-9s they were great and you need belt loaders. Also just wondering if anyone kn
64 Captaingomes : For those of you bringing up the "political" argument, can you please elaborate on the political common denominator between the following? Air Canada
65 Post contains images Bryston : How this order will be split? Equal parts between the airlines? Or, let say (it's an example, random figures), 30% Air Canada, 30% Lufthansa, 20% SAS
66 717fan : A strange thougt....but is it possible that 3 or all 4 manufacturers will gain a part of the order??
67 Post contains images Captaingomes : 717fan, it's unlikely that more than 2 will get the split deal. All indications seem to point towards 2 manufacturers, but only time will tell, and I'
68 Bryston : Another thing to consider, apart from economical and political reasons, may be the delivery delays. Which aircraft manufacturer may deliver the fastes
69 Tekelberry : AC still lives in the short-term, and that's why the order will be split between Airbus and BBD, I'm afraid. Just a guess of course. If that were true
70 Captaingomes : Bryston, to answer that, there were strong rumours very recently that AC would acquire some second hand BAE 146's for a couple of years until the airc
71 Bryston : Captaingomes, interesting rumors indeed. If it's true, I guess it's because AC will get rid of some aircrafts. But again, this would only be good for
72 Post contains images Aloha717200 : I would really hope for the 717 to get a part of this order, but I agree that the 717's limited range reduces its chances considerably. A318, to be ho
73 CanadaEH : Who really knows what Air Canada is going to choose. Originally the 747's were to be removed completely from the fleet by Aug 1 (?) only to be delayed
74 Post contains images MartinairYYZ : I'm hoping for EMB170 to start their service with Air Canada and possibly the A318. These planes both need a boost and Air Canada is the airline to do
75 Whiteguy : CanadaEH Actually AC only has the B744 combis left. Fin 381 was ferried to MZJ 2 weeks ago and fin 385 is at SIN for a maintenance check but then I'm
76 Post contains images VonRichtofen : exsqueeze me? 8 744's? Is this for real? Don't get my hopes up!! lol! Of course, purely from an enthusiast point of view I'd love to see AC 744's ripp
77 RayChuang : I think the decision by BAE Systems to phase out the BAE/Avro RJX-100 is regrettable, to say the least. The RJX-100 could have been the plane that AC
78 Post contains images MartinairYYZ : CanadaEH, I would love to see the 8 744's in air Canada's fleet again (fingers crossed) I hope that you aren't joking around here!!!
79 Bmacleod : The AC order will go to BOMBARDIER, NOT BOEING or AIRBUS!!!! The 717 will look like a re-engined DC-9. Everyone will ask "I thought AC retired the DC-
80 Post contains images Cessnapimp : Bmacleod, AC might go Bombardier, but not exclusively, as they cannot accomodate their 110 pax jet requirement; there WILL have to be an order for Boe
81 CanadaEH : Von: I'm not kidding. In another forum which is usually correct on rumours, there was talk from AC employees that 744's are going to be coming back in
82 Captaingomes : EH, eventhough I love this rumour, and hope it is true, I heard this rumour quite a while back. The fact that it resurfaced maybe means something. The
83 Cessnapimp : I have observed time and time again CanadaEH, the WORSE source for airline info is from airline employees. Sit down with Air Crew one day. What spews
84 Lymanm : "The 717 will look like a re-engined DC-9. Everyone will ask "I thought AC retired the DC-9?" If this is a joke, it's funny. Otherwise, that was proba
85 Post contains images Captaingomes : Cessnapimp, are you saying that galley talk about rumours is useless?
86 Cessnapimp : Heck no! It's entertaining as hell! It's the only thing that keeps many of us employees/furloughs going... the hope that things will get better.
87 Post contains images Yyz717 : Cessnapimp, are you saying that galley talk about rumours is useless? Nuno, I guess it depends on the source. Take, for instance, that flamboyant Mush
88 Post contains images Captaingomes : LOL Neil I know! I just wanted to see what kind of answer Greg would give. I was also hoping Canadi>nBoy would be around to start a series of off-topi
89 Bmacleod : AC won't take on the A345s because from a distance, they look like DC-8s, and that will confuse people who will invariably ask "I thought AC retired t
90 Radarbeam : I hate to admit it but I think AC will scratch off Embraer and possibly Boeing from it's expansion plan. I can bet that Ottawa has put pressure on AC
91 Allee : From the Globe and Mail: Bombardier expects Air Canada order Tuesday, December 09, 2003 The president of Bombardier Aerospace said Tuesday he is confi
92 Bmacleod : Regarding the rumor about AC picking up 8 744s....Combis are the better choice since AC will lose millions since they cannot possibly fill all pax 744
93 717fan : "FlightInternational" reports that the Star choice could be from 2 or more manufacturers....would be strange if they select all, what would be the ben
94 Elwood64151 : AIR CANADA is NOT GOING TO ORDER THE 717!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why WOULD they?!?!? Because they might decide it is the superior product for their
95 Planemaker : Elwood64151: 'Considering GE owns many of the 717s flying (via GECAS), I doubt your analysis.' You are not even close. You should try to check your st
96 Elwood64151 : Planemaker: I was under the impression that the ten additional 717s AirTran was getting along with its new 73Gs would be owned by GE and leased from t
97 Yyz717 : I was under the impression that the ten additional 717s AirTran was getting along with its new 73Gs would be owned by GE and leased from them by AirTr
98 Lymanm : "Are you on the board of ANY of these companies? I doubt it for most of you. Some of you I suspect. In any event, none of us knows for sure. We can gu
99 Acvitale : I am constantly amazed at those whom continue to call the 717 a failure or weak. How many firm A318 orders are there? How many firm 737-600 orders are
100 FoxBravo : Good post, Acvitale. Just out of curiosity, didn't you used to hang out at the old PlaneBusiness boards?
101 Captaingomes : Activale, another point is that these are obviously bad times for the airlines. If airlines were ordering aircraft, the 717 would have a chance at see
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