Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Cathay/Singapore/Emirates To Europe  
User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Can anybody please detail what European ports these airlines currently serve in their own right and what the frequencies are.

I am just trying to compare the European newtorks to QF's.

QF have the following

London 21 x weekly
Frankfurt 7 x weekly
Paris 3 x weekly

Lets hope Rome starts back up soon.

Also does anybody know how the current 3 x weekly Paris flights are going for QF. It would be dreadful if Paris went as well.

Thanks

[Edited 2003-12-07 09:06:33]

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQANTASBOY From Australia, joined May 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Just Done this on SQ..

OK, EK (emirates) has 1 flight a day out of sydney, with 12 connections to heathrow and gatwick in dubai, 4 to paris (cdg), 4 to frankfurt, 2 to Zurich, 2 to Amsterdam 1 to vienna, 1 to athens and 1 to rome.

SQ have 6 flights a day out of sydney to singapore. they have 1x paris (cdg) connectable of SQ0222 and 4x london heathrow, 4x frankfurt, 4x zurich, 3x rome, 2x athens, 2x vienna.

CX have 2 flights a day out of sydney. 4x london from hkg, 2x paris, 2x athens, 1x rome.

Hope this helps


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6533 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2844 times:

QANTASBOY,

Not sure where you got your info from, but codeshares apart, we fly to LHR 3x a day, FRA daily, CDG daily, Rome 5 times a week (I think), and AMS 5 times a week (I think). That's it. We don't fly to Athens, although it would be a nice addition!


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2845 times:

There is no point.... it doesn't even compare.

lets see:
Amseterdam
Copenhagen
Zurich
Vienna
Istanbull(not really europe)
Barcelona
Madrid
Manchester
Rome
Athens
Milan..... The list goes on... these three carriers clearly serve far more, and everything there is at least daily. Emirates may actually have the highest frequencies.
But as far as European networks are concerned, well, QF doesnt have one. They have BA to get you there.


User currently offlineAirbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

How are QF's Paris flts. doing? Well, I can't say exactly when it finishes, but I just tried to find some Freq.Flyer biz class upgrade seats (via QF's website) for a trip to Europe in September 2004, and was unable to find find any QF flts. AT ALL to CDG (then checked in the schedule section). So once again, QF pulls out of a port if it doesn't make them a million $$$ overnight. See also Chicago, Mumbai, Buenos Aires, Shanghai, Seoul and NY (on, off then on again until the next time the bean counters whisper in the CEO's ear)., plus San Francisco, Athens, Amsterdam & Rome (oh yes, and Vienna and Belgrade many years ago) after serving those places for many years.

Then they wonder why the likes of CX, SQ,TG, EK etc., etc., have a proportionally greater market share! Will they ever take the hint? I doubt it!


User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Im sorry Lufthansa but QF's network is comparable to Cathays. QF looks like going back to Rome so the only extra that Cathay has is Amsterdam.

Don't talk down QF. They don't get the "hub" advantage like the others do.


User currently offline9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Singapore Airlines flies -

London - 21x weekly 744
Zurich - 7x weekly 744
Manchester - 5x weekly 772 + 2x weekly 744 via Zurich
Paris - 7x weekly 744
Madrid - 4x weekly 744 via Paris
Copenhagen - 4x weekly 772
Rome - 4x weekly 772
Athens - 3x weekly 772
Frankfurt - 14x weekly 744/772
Amsterdam - 4x weekly 744

Thai Airways flies -

London
Athens
Rome
Frankfurt
Munich
Paris
Stockholm
Copenhagen


User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Airbear,

QF flights to Paris are still in the schedule all through 2004. They also still fly to New York.

I wonder how profitable these secondary European ports are for SQ.

Thanks


User currently offlineAirbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 643 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2714 times:

Hi QANTASpower, I'm sorry, but what "hub advantage" do you mean? None of the Asian carriers have hubs in Europe, either. It is simply a matter of taking people where they want to go, in the shortest possible time.

If QF were to survey their pax, I doubt that many of them would REALLY want to go to say LHR for between 2 - 4 hours, just to (often) fly back in the direction they've just come from, for anywhere between 45 min (AMS) to 3.5 hrs. (ATH), if given the choice, after ALREADY having transited SIN or BKK. Easier to just go with SQ or TG, to use those examples.

Not to be too unkind to QF, but where is the commercial logic in claiming the the SFO market was not worth continuing, and handing UA a goldmine.UA has managed to fill 744 flts to SFO every day of every week for the last 4-5 years or so. Likewise, think of all the pax who transit HKG using both QF and CX, to get on Dragonair to go to Beijing or Shanghai (both former QF ports).


User currently offline9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Those secondary airports in Europe should be doing quite OK, as they are low frequency using low density 772s and are the only carrier from SIN to FCO, ATH, and CPH. Maybe the (ex) SQ staff will give a definite answer.

Comparable to CX? QF has 31 weekly flights into Europe while Cathay has 45 weekly flights. Not that comparable...

Hub advantage? QF can easily do in SIN what NW/UA are doing at NRT.



User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2620 times:

Qantas is hoping to add additional LHR frequencies via Shanghai, hopefully building to daily taking total LHR services to 28. They have also tried for years to go daily to CDG but the French Govt have always oppossed this. A return to Rome and possible 3 x weekly to Zurich is also on the cards.



User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13735 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2602 times:

"but the French Govt have always oppossed this."

I thought the Singapore Government was opposing this?  Insane



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5080 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2596 times:

QANTASpower:
QF isn't hoping to add LHR frequencies. They would be swapping the current QF32/31 flight that routes Via SIN to Shanghai if permission to fly that route was obtained.

Its not that fair comparing QF's service to Europe with CX,SQ etc... as QF don't have there home base in Asia.

Its sort of like saying, how do Air Indias flights to the USA compare with european airlines etc etc

The asian airlines can offer more destinations in europe as they have more connection possibilites...

Airbear:
QF still fly to CDG, and will keep that route. They are currently trying to get more landing rights at CDG to increase the frequencies..
I'd rather an airline pull out of unprofitable routes, than to be loosing money hand over fist... Is it a wonder they make a good profit...?


User currently offlineSingaporeFA From Singapore, joined Nov 2003, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Where on earth do u get your info QANTASBOY?
SQ does not have 6 flights a day out of Sydney...we have only 3.
We fly 3 times daily to London Heathrow.Daily to Paris/Zurich/Manchester.Twice daily to Frankfurt.3 times weekly to Rome/Madrid/Copenhagen,4 times weekly to Amsterdam and twice weekly to Athens.


User currently offlineQANTASpower From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 516 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

ANstar

QF is looking to INCREASE capacity into LHR not keep it the same. QF 31/32 will CONTINUE to operate via Singapore. With Virgin Atlantic adding 7 x weekly services via Hong Kong QF want to up there capacity as well.

QFP


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Not all traffic is connecting!LHR-OZ has a hell of a lot of O&D traffic.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3197 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2382 times:

Qantaspower

Stopbeing so one-eyed when it comes to Qantas. They aren't perfect, and they will never improve if they adopted your attitude! I'm not running them
down, but, their european network is poor. It has many many many connections on BA, which it makes much use of, but, for the business traveler it is still faster to have ONE stop in SIN/BKK/KL etc,

Not to mention airports like AMS and FRA are fare nicer and easier to connect in than LHR. Before you all jump down my throat, Im not running QF down here. I use them preferentially on certain long haul segments to asia...(just not singapore! they just can't be compared with SIA) But, one the city i have to go to the most in Europe is Stockholm..... If they want to win my dollar, start a bangkok-stockholm service and im there tomorrow. I find Qantas are better over the pacific, the asian carriers plus SAS/BA are better choices to Europe. Its really simple QFpower... the asian carriers offer more for either the same price or lower, plus more choice of frequencies and cities..... strangely enough they have had 777 and A340s for ages, and before that Dc10s to fly these kinds of routes...... something we should have done years ago. We should have based a few DC-10s(or how about we start now with some A340s or 772s ba have a few 772s laying about, and i know they would give QF a good deal in a flash) in BKK, for secondary routes, They don't even have to ever fly to Australia. Those who think it won't work...i say i bet it would because of QF's reputation for Quality. The trouble is, ppl at QF don't like change, and they expect a million dollars overnight. Not flying to Athens is CRAZY. HOW MANY GREEKS live in Melbourne! the biggest population outside ATHENS... so, our friends at THAI clean up on this route. LHR isn't exactly an ideal connection.
They could well be the Number one between europe and far east if they wanted to.... of course, the unions would need to agree to a wage cut to make it competitive. Either that or bring on more thai crew.

[Edited 2003-12-07 14:00:43]

User currently offlineQantas005 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2328 times:

QF europe network is pretty poor, but then again just look at the amount of European airlines serving Australia.

Lauda and BA are the oly 2, both operate to the east coast only, so us ppl in perth and the west coast are again left with few options.

i can see why QF doesnt have a big Europe market, it must cost a fortune due to the fact that flights from Aus must stop off enroute.

you cant really compare QF to SQ etc, especially if you consider that flying to europe from Sin of HK on CX or SQ needs no stop enroute.


User currently offlineNethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Thai Airways flies -

London - 12 x weekly 744
Zurich - 7x weekly 744/MD11
Geneva - 3x weekly 744 via Zurich
Paris - 10x weekly 744
Madrid - 3x weekly 744 via Rome
Copenhagen - 6x weekly 744
Rome - 7x weekly 744/743
Athens - 3x weekly MD11
Frankfurt - 12x weekly 744
Munich - 4x weekly 744
Stockholm - 5x weekly 744
Oslo - 3x weekly 744 starting from Jan04 via CPH

So, Thai Airways serves so many destinations in Europe.

Also, you can fly to so many European destionations non-stop from BKK. Istanbul, Helsinki, Moscow etc. So BKK is such a big gateway for AUS-Europe. Though the airport is so old!!  Sad



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlineEx_SQer From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1435 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2058 times:

Those secondary airports in Europe should be doing quite OK, as they are low frequency using low density 772s and are the only carrier from SIN to FCO, ATH, and CPH. Maybe the (ex) SQ staff will give a definite answer.

Was this directed at me?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Quite a few of the secondary stations are not profitable by themselves, but they generate a lot of traffic beyond SIN and hence they help prop up revenues on those routes. FCO, ATH and MAN, in particular, generate a lot of VFR traffic to Australia.

A lot of the traffic from the secondary stations is low yielding tourist traffic heading to SE Asia, and that traffic has been hit badly in recent years. AMS and the now-discontinued BRU were especially badly affected as a lot of their local sales were passengers headed to Indonesia. In the late 90s, SXF and VIE were also discontinued at the onset of economic and ethnic troubles in SE Asia.

On the upside, cargo continues to do well in Europe, especially now with the WOW Alliance in place. Also, the secondary stations are doing much better now with nonstop turnaround services, as opposed to when they were operated by 744s and linked to other stations in Europe.


User currently offlineDocpepz From Singapore, joined May 2001, 1968 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1945 times:

For those saying QF can't have a huge Europe market since it's expensive to make the one stop on the way to Europe, SQ flies to the USA and Canada, all of which need one stop, 42 times a week, quite profitably.

With the introduction of the non-stop SIN-LAX and SIN-NYC flights, that will go up to 56 times a week (or 52 if they cut AMS-EWR. Is SQ cutting AMS-EWR??)

QF at present flies to Europe 34 times a week to LHR, FRA and CDG. 27 of these are through SIN and 7 through BKK.

If SQ can fly profitably from Singapore to the USA, there is no reason why QF can't fly profitably from Australia to the USA. And SQ has no hub advantage either.





User currently offlineChrisrad From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1054 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Malaysia Airlines flys the following

KUL-LHR - 18 a week
KUL-MAN - 4 a week
KUL-AMS - 7 a week
KUL-FRA - 7 a week
KUL-CDG - 4 a week
KUL-FCO - 3 a week
KUL-ZRH - 3 a week

with Australian connections:
MEL-KUL - 14 a week
SYD-KUL - 11 a week
PER-KUL - 11 a week
ADL-KUL - 4 a week
BNE-KUL - 6 a week



Welcome aboard Malaysia Airlines! Winner of Best Cabin Staff 2001,2002,2003,2004,2007,2009,2012
User currently offline9V-SVE From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 2066 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Was this directed at me?

Either you or SQ772 or Ejazz  Big grin


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Singapore Airlines Adds Capacity To Europe & Asia posted Fri Mar 7 2003 09:24:44 by Singapore_Air
Emirates To Cape Town posted Wed Dec 12 2007 05:44:15 by KissK
CO Summer 08 Schedule To Europe posted Sat Nov 24 2007 18:40:40 by LIPZ
Flying Overnight To Europe YYZ-LHR- Jetlag Advice? posted Mon Nov 19 2007 21:45:09 by Bakersdozen
Emirates To Sell Up To 30% Of Shares In IPO posted Tue Nov 13 2007 04:15:41 by Singapore_Air
Emirates To Be No.1 In Passenger Load By 2015 posted Sat Nov 10 2007 08:59:03 by EK156
Singapore Airlines To Buy 24% China Eastern posted Fri Nov 9 2007 07:38:52 by USADreamliner
IND Service To Europe- Is It Possible? posted Thu Nov 8 2007 13:19:01 by BAKJet
JAL To Introduce Premium Economy To Europe (Pics) posted Thu Oct 11 2007 09:32:26 by B742
Emirates To Announce 100 A350 And 20 747-8 posted Wed Oct 10 2007 08:07:18 by Carls