Delta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1131 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6550 times:
You must be kidding. I booked myself on a Lufthansa Flight to Toronto in February and you tell me there will be no PTV in Main Cabin. Hopefully I can change my flight on British Airways then, I will not sit in no F* plane for more than 7 hours with no PTV!!!!!!!!
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 4, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6421 times:
Delta777, you are exactly like me!!! I need a TV on my eco seat for long haul flights...I suggest you cancel the LH bkg and fly KLMs B 772 or AFs A 332 or BAs B744s to YYZ from their respective hubs of AMS-CDG and LHR.
Best amongst these is BA but if KLM is offering u a good deal and its on a B 777 then try it as their aircraft are brand new!!!
AFs A 343s though which sometimes replace A 332s to YYZ dont have ptvs in every eco seat I think!
Md11lover From Switzerland, joined Oct 2003, 444 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6405 times:
Oh great!! Just wonderful..no PTVs. On the 20th of Dec im flying LH on the SFO-FRA-GVA route. Any chance of it being the A346 for the SFO-FRA segment? Any info would be great. I usually fly AF via CDG and they DO have PTVs in coach class on both the A340 and 777.
And before you ask...no, they will not install PTV's in these holes in the front seats! Maybe you are lucky and see PTV's on LH's 346 in a couple of years, but only if LH earned enough money from stupid passengers who booked a flight on one of the most modern aircraft in the world without PTV's in Economy Class.
read a book,
I agree because I am not the biggest fan of watching movies in a plane, I also prefer books and magazines inflight, but I must say that it is a real shame for LH that they do not install PTV's into the Economy Class of their newest addition to their fleet, no matter if you use it or not, it is just a sign for me that LH doesn't care about their Economy Class passengers.
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5340 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6315 times:
Welcome to the way people have flown for sixty years.
Books are great. Magazines too. Talk to the person next to you (unless they are weird).
That said, I enjoy PTV's too. Especially on long flights when everyone tries to sleep. I feel strange putting my reading light on when everyone around is trying to sleep. So a PTV is a friendly option.
I would think that Airbus would have pushed Lufty into doing PTV's. Because, as they have not, passengers will prefer other airlines and aircraft to Lufty's widebody Airbusses.
123 From Bolivia, joined Nov 2003, 739 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6204 times:
As an LH fan (and obligated tourist-class pax) I also must express my surprise that the PTV's have yet to be discovered by LH management who obviously fly upper class and don't note, that if you're squeezed between seats and pax, you need some distractions that are "modern".
Reading a book is an excellet choice indeed, and it does not bother fellow pax more, than a PTV. A book, or a reading light, does not flimmer.
Yes, LH, when will there be PTV's for those who cannot afford C or F class?
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6057 times:
The kid that might be sitting next to you whos 5 years old wont be too thrilled with a book, but play Finding Nemo for him and hes quiet the whole damn flight. Thats just one of the reasons for having a PTV...and the sweet flight map. Shame, real shame for such an airline to not have a basic commodity like PTVs which are now the standard in new long haul aircraft.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 47 Reply 12, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5972 times:
OK, let me once again post my standard reply to this topic, since the new search engine won't let me dig out the 500 earlier threads about the very same topic.
1. It is only economically sensible to install PTV's in eco if the return of investment is positive.
2. Travel surveys have indicated that regular eco travellers will choose their airline about fare price and safety, maybe also number of connections, network and travel time.
3. Airliners.net members are not like the regular travel public, because they tend to get carried away with their airline fetish thingy. Therefore they care more about unneccessary gizmos like the regular dude, who is just happy to ride safely and relatively comfortably across the pond for a good price.
4. If you are whining that you can't survive a longhaul flight without a postcard size in front of you, then you should probably ask yourself if you'd be willing to pay the 30-40 Euro more for your ticket, which would make it economically sensible for LH to install PTV's in peasant class.
5. PTV's don't make or break a good airline. I'd rather fly an economically stable airline, which doesn't cut corners in maintenance and with happy employees, but without PTV'S than the other way around.
6. Sabena and Swissair had PTV's, but they went bust. LH doesn't have PTV's in eco, and they are still one of the financially most viable airlines in the world. Surprisingly? Methinks not. Which proves once again, that a.net whiners (no offense guys, this is all tongue-in-cheek) are not the decisive factor when it comes to the demographic mix of eco passengers.
7. Do you have a postcard-size screen in your car, in the train or in the bus in front of you? Did you survive these ordeals? See...
8. I do not work for LH, neither do I like my "national carrier" very much. However, they are very clever guys when it comes to economics.
Sorry, but I just can't stand whining like "Oh, help me God, I am in such pain if I don't have a tiny TV screen in front of me all the time!"
P.S.: I like PTV's, but would certainly not pay more for them.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Gamarocchi From Italy, joined Nov 2003, 198 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5782 times:
Add to it that not every passenger enjoys PTVs. For example, I like it and I prefer to have PTV on my flight (but I won't die if there is no screen in front of my seat), while my mother (which travels LH to Boston and back almost every month) can't stand that "small, flickering, low quality" screen that she finds when they let her in Business class (Senator :P) or that she experienced on Swiss Air's A330. She actually prefers the big screen because the quality of the picture is better....
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5587 times:
Th funny thing is that, if I want PTVs, I have to pay less...fly Emirates, enjoy the best service and technology available and save money. I don't care any longer about (very few) airlines living in the past.
Btw, Tristar500, if there's no economic sense in installing PTVs, so why on earth have almost all long haul carriers installed them in their newly delivered aircraft? There are around 50 airlines now offering modern IFE, so are they all wrong? Have all cut maintenance due to PTVs? That's a rather ridiculous argument.
And forget about SR and SN...we have seen enough non-PTV airlines going out of business. Many factors may send an airline out of business, but definitely not these little screens.
And again for all who suffer from a lack of knowledge in terms of PTV size: the new generation of IFE includes larger screens, check Emirates' website and you will learn more. One starts it, the other will follow. With known exceptions, of course...
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4685 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5559 times:
Maybe this is new to you Udo, but airlines tend to have different cost structures. If one airline can economically operate PTV's in eco, this doesn't mean that other airlines can do the same without seriously inflicting their production costs.
This is just an assumption, but I suppose that Lufthansa has relatively high unit costs due to the fact that they are largely based out of Germany (although they are trying to outsource parts of their operation).
Also, the focus of their service strategy tends to be different with the multitude of carriers you'll find.
Again, if it is economically viable, i.e. the revenue increase is larger than investment and operational costs of PTV's, an airline will install them. Lufthansa is not out there to make you feel miserable or torture you.
[Edited 2003-12-09 12:11:05]
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Udo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
Would be interesting to learn more about the airlines' different unit costs...is LH really really facing so many financial disadvantages by being based in Germany? Is there any comparsion among EU airlines available?
Gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2882 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5345 times:
You guys that are saying if you want PTV, you need to be prepared to pay extra is a load of rubbish.
US Airways regularly comes out the cheapest on Transatlantic flights and if you fly the A330-300 you get this in economy with relatively new films. And this is been offered by an airline that made an $80million loss for the third quarter of 2003!
I am flying US Airways LGW-PHL-LAX LAX-CLT-LGW for £169 (inc tax) next March (Purchased through expedia.co.uk). Tell me airline that offers cheaper fares than that, and give you PTV!
I admit I will only get PTV's on the LGW-PHL and CLT-LGW segments, and I have got to change aircraft!
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 34 Reply 24, posted (9 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5323 times:
Gilesdavies: yes, from your standpoint that may be so, but please read again what you just said: A company that makes a loss of USD 80mn per Q3, are you trying to say LH should not care about cost anymore and put in PTV no matter what??? Come on, that's rubbish!
I know it's only VfB but I like it!
25 TriStar500: You know that a momentary picture, e.g. your example bookings, does not give the entire view? Without drifting totally off-topic, US might be the chea
26 9V-SPF: Very interesting topic, what do you think will be the replacement for NWA´s DC-9´s?
27 Andreas: Definitely not an Airbus, because Airbus sucks like an Electrolux, extremely weak take-off performance, using the curvature of the earth to gain heigh
28 Delta777Jet: Quit it guys, it`s a shame how some you you acting! But if you think playing to be a smart ass is cool, just go on!
29 Udo: Since some users seem to suffer from a break down due to that topic, I can only give the usual advice: if you don't like the thread, don't read it, do
30 TriStar500: I think we can both agree to disagree on the PTV issue, Udo. After all, this is not Kindergarten, err, Non-Av Forum [Edited 2003-12-09 19:01:25]
31 Udo: Yes, let's agree to disagree. Btw, you weren't meant in my previous posting, just to inform you... Regards Udo
32 Stratofish: Just out of curiosity, has there ever been any (official) statement(s) by LH regarding their (lack of) PTVs?
33 Leskova: One thing that they said a while back was that their 744s would not be able to fly FRA-SIN (and similarly long flights) year-round if they had the ext
34 Udo: I once wrote an e-mail to LH (some three or four years ago). They explained these kinds of IFE systems were 'not very reliable' and they didn't want t
35 PER744: Leskova: There are quite a lot of airlines flying SIN-FRA and further year-round with PTV's in 744's.
36 Leskova: PER744 - that's why I wrote "I'm not going to comment that, it's just what they said 3-4 years ago", because at that time I already considered that lo