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JFK Airtrain To Start Dec. 17th  
User currently offlineBombayhog From United States of America, joined May 2001, 557 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

Apologies if this has already been posted.

http://www.airtrainjfk.com/airtrain/

One question though. This website seems to state that it will cost $5 to ride from the Howard Beach A stop to your terminal. I had assumed that this connection would be much like just another subway ride (i.e. you could use your metrocard for a free connection). Since the shuttle buses, however slow and inefficient they used to be, were free, doesn't it seem a bit much to charge $5 for this? From Jamaica to your terminal I could understand. Any thoughts/insights?

-bombayhog

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBombayhog From United States of America, joined May 2001, 557 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3810 times:

No responses? Perhaps I posted at an odd hour.

User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

Yea, I'm a NYC resident, and everyone I know who used to do the A to JFK is furious about them charging us $5 from the subway to the terminals, a ride which used to be free. It's the PANY/NJ making sure that no one uses the A train any more, forcing people to either pay $5 for a 5 minute ride, or take the train from either Jamaica or Penn.

On another note, I don't know what they're going to do with the fare control area at Howard Beach, since it is technically right in the long term parking area. Since rides on the AirTrain will be free from Long Term parking to the terminals, there may be a way to scheme it and just walk into the long term parking from the A train and then ride free.


User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1004 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3694 times:
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I guess the one of the ways of collecting fares will be at Jamaica and Howard Beach -- passengers entering or exiting those stations will pay the $5. Then there is no fare collection needed while the passenger is on the train.

As a New Yorker, I find the fees to be very steep. Especially the Howard Beach connection. As I have mentioned on other threads, I find the AirTrain ride connecting through Jamaica quite inconvenient.

Anyway, I am glad that there is now an alternative (or there will be as of Dec 17). I for one plan to use it for photo ops!

Bombayhog, I posted a thread about the AirTrain opening on Dec 17, and there was hardly a response. Perhaps now that everyone has discussed the AirTrain so much (or given up on waiting for the train to start), no one has energy to discuss the opening!



User currently offlineJcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 40
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

Oh well, $5 to JFK is better than the $11.75 to EWR.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

It'll still cost the $11.75 to get to JFK during peak hours...it'll cost $6.75 to get from Penn Station to Jamaica on the LIRR, then the $5 to get on AirTrain. At least during peak hours it is only $9.75...which is still cheaper than taking NJT to EWR.

A little side note, you can save money on NYP-EWR. You just need to buy two separate tickets...one for NYP-NWK, and then an NWK-EWR ticket. The total cost is $10.10...if anyone is so desperate to save the $1.65, here is your chance. (why NJT does this is beyond me, I'll ask the guys at railroad.net probably)

Jeff



User currently offlinePlanemannyc From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1004 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3516 times:
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Jeff,

So you can buy the seperate tickets, but not get off the train? Or do you have to take a different train to Newark Penn Station and then take the train that stops at EWR?

This is good info, indeed! Thanks!


User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3497 times:

You might be able to pull it off with the TVMs...I have never used a TVM yet, instead I have always just bought my tickets from the agents at Summit or NYP. I would assume that it should work.

Another (and even cheaper!) idea would be instead of buying two tickets is to simply buy a ticket to Elizabeth. It costs $4.55 for a one-way ticket from NYP to Elizabeth, which is one stop after EWR. On all the NJT timetables I've seen, it says that the TVM tickets are magnetically encoded, but if you don't have one, then you pay $5 to a TVM at EWR that lets you through the gates. My math tells me that it would then cost (only) $9.55 to get to EWR, which is $2.20 cheaper than the published fare. This however, only works outbound from NYC, but it still saves you money.

Jeff


User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Personally, it seems to me that the whole thing was set up to funnel price-sensitive tourists to and from JetBlue, and I don't think many Manhattan residents or business travelers will be using the service.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

The JFK Airtrain is not owned/operated by the same agency as NYC Transit, nor were they/are they funded through the same sources.

The NYC Subway is controlled by the MTA and funded through State, City and Federal Taxes. The JFK Airtrain is owned and operated by the Port Authority of NY and NJ, it was paid for through a combination of Port Authority Funds and Airport surcharges.

There will be no "free transfer", there could ot be a "free transfer" because there would be no "fair" way of reconciling the two fare structures.

However you can use a pre-paid Metro Card, just as you can with the new World Trade Center PATH station.

The fare to travel to JFK via the A train at Howard Beach will be $7, $5 for the Airtrain ride from Howard Beach to the Terminals and $2 for the Subway fare. Discounts can count towards your Subway fare, but not the $5 Airtrain fare.

What's not fair is that for the EWR Airtrain there is a $7.50 surcharge for trips between NYC and the Airport, while the fare for rides from within NJ are only $5 Dollars. They have such a high surcharge on the NJ Transit/Amtrak trips from NY so they could have "parity" with the higher LIRR fares, if the surchagre for trips from NYC-EWR were only $5 Dollars the trip to EWR from NY Penn would be $2 cheaper (each way) than the trip to JFK.

When the PATH is extended to EWR, they will have a similar surcharge as with the NYC Subway at Howard Beach. It will cost about $7 Dollars to ride the PATH to EWR airport, that project may start within the next year.

As for getting around the surcharge at JFK by walking from the Howard Beach Subway to the Long Term Parking Airtrain station, forget about it. The Long Term lots station will be within the confins of the long terms lots fence, the only entrance/exit will be through the "toll plaza". First of all it's a hike, and second I think they do not allow foot access to the long term lots.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlairport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

I can see it now.... a bunch of people hitchhiking outside of the long-term lot! halarious!

User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

Like everything else in NYC, there are so many constituencies and special interests to satisfy that in the end, no one will be completely happy with the arrangement...

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5578 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

As far as I'm concerned, the five bucks for the ride from Howard Beach is well worth it, considering how vile, rotten and disgusting the shuttle buses are.
In any event, it helps to put the cost in perspective. AirTrain users will end up paying $10 for a round-trip. In most cases that's going to be a very minimal percentage of the cost of one's flight from JFK. Airport and airline employees will be able to get monthly AirTrain passes for just $40, a reasonable sum all things considered.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Compares nicely to $45 taxi ride, as it is likely even the flat rate JFK- Manhattan is going up to this...

User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 863 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

So, all the Airtrian does is replace shuttle bus service around JFK. It really does little to improve transit to/from Manhattan, am I correct?

Here is an idea:

On the 8th Ave. Subway line (A train) at 42nd Street (Bus Depot) there is an abandoned lower level platform that has express track access and special fare control. No one really knows why the IND built it, but it was used for a time in the 50's for "specials" to Aqueduct.

Why doesn't the TA reopen the platform and run express to JFK? Or (god forbid) allow the PA to do so?



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5578 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

On the 8th Ave. Subway line (A train) at 42nd Street (Bus Depot) there is an abandoned lower level platform that has express track access and special fare control. No one really knows why the IND built it, but it was used for a time in the 50's for "specials" to Aqueduct.
Why doesn't the TA reopen the platform and run express to JFK? Or (god forbid) allow the PA to do so?


1. The old platform is no longer in anything close to useable shape, among other things the access stairways to the main level have been paved over.
2. The planned (and much needed) westward extension of the 7 train may require demolition of the lower platform (I say may because there's some dispute as to this point).
3. Expresses running from the lower platform are just going to be stuck behind other trains farther down the line.



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

1) RE: cheaper way to get from Manhattan to EWR via AirTran. There's and even cheaper way than buying 2 NJT tickets (1 from NYP to NWK and 1 from NWK to EWR)....

Take the PATH to NWK ($1.50), then NJT from NWK to EWR ($6.80). Total price: $8.30


2) I'm flying out of JFK this Friday morning (very early at 6:00am) and I've never done the A train to shuttle bus thing but wanted to try it. I realize this means I'll probably have to leave my apt. in Manhattan at 3:00am. My question: Do the shuttle busses run 24 hours? Is it easy to figure out where to catch it once you get off the subway? I take it from the posts above that they're not pretty, but I couldn't care less about that... just so it takes me from the subway to Terminal 4 and get's me there by 5 am.

Any advice/thoughts?

Thanks.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineSarrebal From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3182 times:

TWFirst

You don't wanna get onto the A train at 3am.....trust me.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

"So, all the Airtrian does is replace shuttle bus service around JFK. It really does little to improve transit to/from Manhattan, am I correct?"

I disagree, it can take 2 hours from JFK to Mid-Town Manhattan via road. This will provide a reliable form of transportation via Jamaica Staion that will take 45 minutes from NY Penn, a little over an hour if you take the Subway via Howard Beach.

It's also a first step towards an eventualy "one seat" ride to Manhattan, a direct link to Manhattan cannot be acheived until slots are freed up at NY Penn by the LIRR diverting some trains to Grand Central, or they build that new East river tunnel to connect the LIRR's Atlantic Ave branch to the new Fulton street transit complex the MTA is going to build.

Either way direct access to Manhattan from JFK would not be acheivable until 2012 at the earliest, until then this is a huge improvement over the current set up.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

Sarrebal: Thanks for the advice, but I'm not concerned.



An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 863 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

PROSA:

I hear you! Nice dream though, Airtrain now provides a link that would make a big loop possible between JFK ---> Jamaica ---> 42nd St. ---> JFK.

...2. The planned (and much needed) westward extension of the 7 train may require demolition of the lower platform (I say may because there's some dispute as to this point).


Hey, I thought the platform was put there to stop the Flushing line. Besides, isn't the 7 train extension planned for construction after the completion of the 2nd Ave. Subway?  Smile




DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3126 times:

"Besides, isn't the 7 train extension planned for construction after the completion of the 2nd Ave. Subway? "

No way!...

The 7 train extension will be started by 2005, they are already about to float the bonds. Expect an announcement before Summer about the 7 train extension as well as the Jets moving to the West Side of Manhattan, the 7 trains extension is going to cost about $1.7 Billion (give or take).

The Second ave Subway is going to cost in the neighborhood of $17 Billion, and take about 15 years to build. They are working out the final details with that project but it's not going to be built full length all at once, they will build it in sections over the next 15-20 years or so.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlyPIJets From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 863 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

STT757

"...The Second Ave Subway is going to cost in the neighborhood of $17 Billion, and take about 15 years to build. They are working out the final details with that project..."

You're so funny!  Big thumbs up

FYI to those not familiar, the 2nd Ave. Subway was first proposed in 1929 and has been an on going project since.

Seriously, though, I hope it does get built, REALLY!  Smile



DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, F28, 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, IL-62, L-1011, MD-82/83, YS-11, DHC-8, PA-28-161, ERJ 135/145, E-1
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

They are going to build the first portion which was started in the 1970s, from 125th street to 63rd?

When it gets to Lower Manhattan though is the big question, however Community groups etc are pressuring the MTA to commit to the "full build". Peter Kalikow committed to the full build, when that can be accomplished though is for debate.

I do believe though that they will indeed start (restart) construction on the first stretch through East Harlem-Upper East side.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineJcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2974 times:

Yea the people funding the 2nd Avenue subway are smart, cause they know if they just give the MTA the money, they'll build 1 mile and then run out of money. This way, the MTA has to do something with the money, and there can be revenue train service while construction further south is in progress.

25 PROSA : I will be very much surprised if any construction on the Second Avenue Subway actually begins. Nine decades of vaporware-ish proposals and false start
26 Rjpieces : I believe there is money allocated for construction to begin next year. TWFirst, please accept our advice...you REALLY DON'T want to take the A train
27 STT757 : At that early hour you should get a hotel room at JFK the night before your flight, that way your already at the airport with a good nights sleep for
28 PROSA : TWFirst, please accept our advice...you REALLY DON'T want to take the A train to JFK at 3AM! I've taken it within the city and it is fine at that time
29 Ezra : The A is one of the trains where the conductor switches between the two center cars, depending on which side of the train the doors open. Though I don
30 Sarrebal : TWFirst, Really, don't get the A train that late. Besides the bad areas you are gonna go through, there is probably a train every half hour that late
31 Jcxp15 : Yea I take the train at all hours, and as long as you just don't look like you're a tourist or have that "I'm from the Upper East/West side and never
32 Cadet93 : Let me tell you that the EWR monorail is 5 dollars also. For the short trip from the train station to the airport. BUT....I have figured a way to save
33 Post contains images TWFirst : No one has answered my question. I appreciate all the dire warnings of traveling on the A Train in the middle of the night, but really, I am not conce
34 PROSA : In the meantime, what I would like to know and need to know is as follows: 1) If I do choose to travel on the train of death, when I get to the Howard
35 TWFirst : Thank you PROSA. I will probably end up taking a cab, but I've always wondered about taking the subway/shuttle bus combo.... that $40+ cab fare kinda
36 PROSA : The A is one of the trains where the conductor switches between the two center cars, depending on which side of the train the doors open. Though I don
37 AirJamPanAm : Prosa.. When the A train pulls into the station, you cross over the tracks and enter the subway station, buses meet passengers immediately outside the
38 Post contains images Mikephotos : I find it pretty funny that everyone discourages riding the A at 2/3am. I myself find it no big deal as long as you have 1/2 a brain and look like you
39 Post contains images Planemannyc : Mikephotos, Man, and I was about to wear my diamond studded chain and the gold tooth to go with it on my next 2 am subway ride! Stay by the conductor'
40 Post contains images Mikephotos : Mikephotos, Man, and I was about to wear my diamond studded chain and the gold tooth to go with it on my next 2 am subway ride! Just let me know what
41 Jcxp15 : THe only thing is I think the Q10 only runs every 45 minutes or an hour at 3AM, so you'd have to time it somewhat right so that you're not waiting at
42 TWFirst : Planemannyc: I'd be catching the A train from the W 4th St. station in Manhattan (Village). I could catch the E there as well. It sounds as if the shu
43 Mikephotos : It sounds as if the shuttle bus waits at the Howard Beach station until the next one arrives, and then leaves for the terminals, meaning there should
44 Post contains links Planemannyc : TWFirst, And even if that were not the case, you will wait inside the "closed" station at Howard Beach -- there is a door that leads you to the bus ra
45 TWFirst : Thanks for all the info folks. Returning this thread to the intended topic, it will be great when the AirTrain is running next week and we won't even
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