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Is YYZ-HKG A Trans Polar Route?  
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

I have seen 2 or 3 topics lately mentioning that AC flies HKG-YYZ nonstop, but makes a stop at YVR going the other way, because of prevailing winds. However, the Great Circle Mapper shows that the GC route passes fairly close to the North Pole. As the course runs almost North/South why would prevailing winds be a factor?

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineN754pr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4344 times:

I don't think it is, I know the CO flight from New York to Hong Kong is.

User currently offlineScf158 From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

I dont know why the winds would be a factor but Im sure there is some reason... Seems to me that the route would be over the north pole otherwise the route would be much longer

User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4190 times:

Cathay flies YYZ-YVR-HKG. No non-stop, and I believe the same goes for AC.

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

And, FYI, airlines don't always follow a "great circle" route. I've flown AA several times DFW-LGW and DFW-FRA, and due to winds they usually hug the east coast from the Chesapeake up to Nova Scotia before crossing the Atlantic; a great circle route would take them more over the Great Lakes area.


"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4004 times:

Ssides,

I realize that airlines don't always fly a great circle route, but in this case - YYZ-HKG, there is such a huge difference in the distance between the GC route (6787 nm) and the YYZ-YVR-HKG route (7366 nm) that I wondered if there might be another reason for not flying the polar route. Not having overflight rights for China perhaps - which doesn't make sense as Hong Kong is part of China now.


User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3977 times:

It goes close to the pole.



Go big or go home
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3970 times:

AA61hvy, how did you chart that route above?

Brgds
Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

Yyz717,

http://gc.kls2.com



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineAa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

Thanks BA
http://gc.kls2.com/  Big grin



Go big or go home
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3948 times:

Cheers BA & AA61hvy!

Regards
Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

I hoped somebody would be able to answer my question, but I guess nobody from AC who might know the answer is reading the topics on this forum.

User currently offlineChrisA330 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 631 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

I've read in another forum, that the HKG-YYZ non stop is not a polar route. It follows a similar path as HKG-YVR but continuing to YYZ. Even though the polar route is shorter in distance, the winds allow the route via YVR to be flown in a faster time.

User currently offlineCor_18 From Canada, joined May 1999, 40 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

Well.. why don't we just wait and see. On March 24th (yes, still a ways away), I will be flying HKG-YYZ direct so i will let you know how the route is flown exactly.

-Corey A. (YYZ)


User currently offlineOlympus69 From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 1737 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

I've read in another forum, that the HKG-YYZ non stop is not a polar route. It follows a similar path as HKG-YVR but continuing to YYZ. Even though the polar route is shorter in distance, the winds allow the route via YVR to be flown in a faster time.

That is interesting, but still doesn't answer my question, which is about YYZ-HKG. Surely the winds can't be more favorable via YVR in both directions, or can they? If they still need to refuel doing a polar route westbound, then Churchill, MB would be a good choice. It is only 20 nm longer than the YYZ-HKG Great Circle distance. YYQ has a 9,200' runway and has jet fuel.


User currently offlineCX773 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2001, 365 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3646 times:

Winds affect YYZ-HKG or JFK-HKG significantly which causes the payload problem. Therefore Refuelling is needed. For example, CX stops at YVR for refuelling because it's oen of the CX online port with full support.

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