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17th December - The Biggest Lie Of All Times  
User currently offlineLuisinho From Portugal, joined Nov 2000, 229 posts, RR: 1
Posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 22189 times:

hii folcks! Big grin

I was reading all the posts about 17th December and the big flight and i'm very mad by now.

The Flight of Wright Brothers is a BIG LIE. This is one of the biggest lies of all times. The first flight ever made by man was made by the Brazilian SANTOS DUMOND in Paris in 1906.

You can read about it on: http://www.thefirsttofly.hpg.ig.com.br/pioneer2.htm

The flight from wright brothers was not a true flight. The aicraft of wright brothers was catapulted, not respecting the international rules for flight with machines heavy then air. So... why everybody says that Wright brothers were first?

Santos Dumont appears in the first place and the Wright brothers only in 8th. (Note: the “National Aeronautics” is a magazine of the United States). Why? Very simply because, just as in all conquests and competitions, in all branches of activity – sport or science – the records are ratified by scientific commissions and the first flight verified in this way was that one made by Alberto Santos Dumond.

Santos Dumond Flew in Paris, with his 14 Bis, In October 23, 1906 the Brazilian Alberto Santos Dumont made the first mechanical flight on a heavier-than-air machine: at 4 p.m. his airplane, the “14-bis”, rose from the ground and traveled the distance of 60 meters at a height of 2 to 3 meters: a small flight for a man but a great flight for humanity!

Here is a comparison between the power and the mass of the “14-bis” and the “Flyer”:


Year Pilot Airplane Engine Mass Velocity to take-off Relation power/mass
1903 Wright Flyer 12 hp 340kg 50 km/h 1 cv to each 28,3 kg
1906 Dumont 14-bis 50 hp 290 kg 41 km/h 1 cv to each 5,8 kg

The relation power/mass of the Wright’s airplane is evident that the same could never fly.

TheNorth-American Ken Hyde, a expert builder of replicas of the first Wright Flyer, in an interview to “The News Observer” of December 15, 2002, declared:

WE KNOW HOW TO PUT THE MAN ON THE MOON, BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN FLYING A TRUE WRIGHT AIRPLANE.”

Conclusion: Santos Dumont was indubitable the first man to fly in an airplane. The North Americans historians do not have any proof for promoting the Wright brothers as the first to fly.

When Santos Dumont decided to attack the problem of the mechanical flight, this conception was considered utopian by his contemporaries, and remained so until 1905. After Dumont’s flight, nobody doubted more of the possibility of the mechanical flight. French Captain Ferber in his book “Aviation” written in 1907, says: “The Brazilian inventor has proved that flying machines can fly,” which is equivalent to saying that until then nobody else had.

These are his own words, taken from pages 97 and 98 of his book:

“On October 23rd, before the Aviation Committee, at 4.45 p.m. the airplane rose from the ground, gently and without the slightest jolt. The crowd, astonished, had the impression that a miracle had been performed and at first were struck dumb with admiration; then they raised a shout of enthusiasm as the plane landed, and rushed forward to carry the aviator in triumph.”

And, a few lines further on:

“The record was raised to 220 meters a month later and the news flashed round the world at lightning speed. A new era opened from this date because the paralyzing spell had been broken. It had been proved that flying machines could fly.”

The airplane of the Wright brothers could not take off under its own power, even in 1908. Without a catapult to launch the airplane or sufficient headwinds, the Wright’s machine could not fly. Compare the flight of Santos-Dumont's Demoiselle with one of the Wright's European flights!


So... guys... after all this... tell me what you think!

Yours truly!
LUIS





138 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21823 times:

I guess we'll find out tomorrow, won't we? If the Flyer could never fly, then the replica they built will never get off the ground...simple as that.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineJBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4491 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21773 times:

Santos-Dumont was a hoax....I seem to remember some pictures of their alleged "flights" that were staged very poorly (i.e. a treeline immediately behind the airplane)

[Edited 2003-12-16 21:46:49]


I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21771 times:

The aicraft of wright brothers was catapulted, not respecting the international rules for flight with machines heavy then air

That's just like us Americans isn't it? Not respecting the international rules of flight! Big grin Big grin

After all, we use these catapults all the time: http://www.militarycity.com/valor/images/valor15.jpg


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5398 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21735 times:

Well, if catapulted-assisted takeoffs don't count as aviation, there's quite a few naval aviators who would wish to beg to differ with you.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineCaetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 909 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21711 times:

I think that if any amount of travel by a heavier than air piece of equipment occurred, then it was the first flight. Lift occured on the wings of the Wright Flyer. The short sustainment of the flight was due to the propulsion of the engine on it, no matter how underpowered.

By the logic put forth above, it seems that our carrier based supersonic jet fighters are not truly aircraft either? Aren't they in fact catapulted off of the deck of the carrier?

Just a different point of view,
CAETravlr



A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21697 times:

Why would this be considered the biggest lie OF ALL TIME?
Isn't that bit dramatic?


User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21621 times:

Someone needs to hit the medicine cabinet and get over it.


Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineFutterman From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1301 posts, RR: 44
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21571 times:

it's been debated for the longest time, and in some cases actually proven. but, only the Wright Brothers were responsible for launching the age of aviation. can you, or anyone dispute that?

their construction and piloting of a heavier-than-air aircraft is profound and celebrated. without them, though, flying would just be another side show...something at a stund devil does to entertain the masses. they popularized their success, and look what came of it.

again, the Wright Brothers's claim to being the first to accomplish powered flight--with or without a catapault--is debateable. however, the birth and growth of the aviation industry is attributable to them.



What the FUTT?
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5398 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21547 times:

Just one more point here. The "international rules for flight with machines heavier than air" you mentioned. Who, exactly set them up, and when? Wouldn't it seem rather convenient for someone who didn't wish to see a pair of Midwestern bumpkins like the Wrights to conveniently say "Guess what? Their flight was the first one, but it won't count as the first one because we'll make standards that will disqualify them after the fact!" I highly doubt any international rules existed prior to the Wrights making their flight.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21533 times:

Here's an excerpt from CNN.com:

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/12/10/brazil.santosdumont.reut/index.html

Even Santos-Dumont experts like Lins de Barros concede this is wrong. But he says that the strong, steady winds at Kitty Hawk were crucial for the Flyer's take-off, disqualifying the flight because there was no proof it could lift off on its own.

Peter Jakab, chairman of the aeronautics division at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and a Wright brothers expert, says such claims are preposterous.

By the time Santos-Dumont got around to his maiden flight the Wright brothers had already flown numerous times, including one in which they flew 24 miles (39 km) in 40 minutes.

"Even in 1903 the airplane sustained itself in the air for nearly a minute. If it's not sustaining itself under its own power it's not going to stay up that long," Jakab says.

Even in France -- never a country too eager to agree with the U.S. point of view -- the Wrights are considered to have flown before Santos-Dumont, says Claude Carlier, the director of the French Center for the History of Aeronautics and Space.





"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineMartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21500 times:

IMO and in the opinion of most of the world, Americans want to be the best and first at everything and will lie to do so..... the "Wright Flyer" and "Landing on the moon" as 2 examples. This is not the peoples' falut but that of the government.

Nobody in the history of man has ever landed on the moon-- that's why they don't do it anymore. Not becuase or "Money problems" but becuase it has to be filmed.

Think logically!! The moon has NO ATMOSPHERE and therefore a flag CAN NOT WAVE ON THE MOON as in all the pictures and clips.

The whole thing is a hoax and the world is full of scammers.



Chelsea Football Club supporter.
User currently offlineTWISTEDWHISPER From Sweden, joined Aug 2003, 711 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 21491 times:

Yeah... One lie that would be bigger is that if our world was just an illusion, like in Matrix... or if it was proven that God didn't exist.

I guess we'll find out tomorrow, won't we? If the Flyer could never fly, then the replica they built will never get off the ground...simple as that.

Well, what about the bumble-bee...it is not suppose to be able to fly, to small wings in relation to that body... but I guess nobody told the bumble-bee  Laugh out loud



Read between the lines.
User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21402 times:

"flag CAN NOT WAVE ON THE MOON"

Let me see the flag has supports running across it that give it the look likes its waving in the wind. We did land on the moon and anyone who does not beleive that we did has got to be a moron or a 13 to 15 year old Canadian.

[Edited 2003-12-16 21:55:32]

User currently offlineLuisinho From Portugal, joined Nov 2000, 229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21377 times:

And what about this on NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE????

A related letter appeared in Newsweek (Nov 24, 2003, p 18; powered flights long before the Wright brothers):

The first powered, controlled, sustained flight took place 50 years before the Wright brothers, in 1852 (Henri Giffard flew 15 miles with a steam engine mounted on a dirigible). He went nearly 100 times as far as the Wright brothers did. The Zeppelins were powered as well, of course, but the first powered heavier-than-air flight took place in 1890 (Clement Ader, steam engine on bat-winged monoplane, 60 yards). The Wrights' 1903 flight (300 yards) was the first photographed heavier-than-air flight. [Correction: not quite true; there exist photos of Lilienthal's non-powered heavier-than-air flights in the 1890s; error inserted by Newsweek editors.] After the advent of relatively light combustion engines (such as Benz, Otto, Diesel), other pioneers pursued similar approaches, but no photographs were taken by Richard Pearse (New Zealand, March 1903) and Karl Jatho (August 1903). Finally, the Wrights needed headwinds or catapults to start their planes, so they were not fully self-powered. But Brazil's Santos-Dumont was (1906, first official airplane flight).



User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21357 times:

I hate to be rude, but if A.net had a "disrespected users" option, MartinairYYZ would be the first on mine.

Please, let this not become a board for conspiracy theorists. There are already plenty of those on the web.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineUSAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 824 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21361 times:

"Nobody in the history of man has ever landed on the moon-- that's why they don't do it anymore. Not becuase or "Money problems" but becuase it has to be filmed."

Yeah so Armstrong said bye to his family, pretended to get on the shuttle and then got out the shuttle with the escape pod (like in the movie air force 1) and then went to this little room where they had a set up of the moon and earth in the backround.... Oh yeah a hoax.... LoL ..... newayz..... The whole world has added to aviation ..... American's being the first to fly.... Germany being the first to make a jet engine.......Russia being the first to send a man into outer space (Atleast I think) .... Airbus being the first to use FlyBywire (Again I think) .... The whole world has added to aviation, but without the Wright Flyer's giving hope to the concept of flight, today there could be no flight... We can all be traveling to Puerto Rico or Europe by Super Sonic Ships! LMAO





User currently offlineTjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2453 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21273 times:

The Wright flyer technically didn't fly, the manned lunar landings were a hoax, and jet engine contrails are POISONOUS GASSES!!!  Wow!


Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineRiverVisualNYC From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 930 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21198 times:

It will all come full circle for Brazil when in 10 years EMBRAER is the world's #1 manufacturer of airliners....The low cost producer always wins...

User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5398 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21147 times:

Airbus being the first to use FlyBywire

Not true. Lockheed did it with the F-16 before Airbus did it with the A-320.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineStartvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21092 times:

And those white trails in the sky are mind control chemicals. Get a frigging clue already. They did it, they had a picture to prove it, there were later movies to prove later versions of their airplane flew and we have airplanes that fly today. Yeah that moon landing was real fake thats why we spent those billions of dollars on it. Also flouridation of the water is a communist plot.. some people need more to worry about

User currently offlineAtpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 21005 times:

Hi!

Actually, neither Santos-Dumont NOR the Wright Brothers were the 1st to fly a powered-heavier-than-air aircraft in controlled, sustained flight.

I read in the past year that a guy living near Phoenix, AZ made and flew a number of aircraft BEFORE 1903. He did all of the work by himself, without any correspondence with anyone else.

Unfortunately for him, he didn't think it was a big deal, so he didn't tell anyone about it. There are numerous eyewitnesses who had seen his numerous flights, but there is now written records, no press, no officials, just a guy flying his invention out of his backyard.

Officially, the Wright Bros are recognized as the first. The Santos Dumont thing is RIDICULOUS. The Wright Bros flew NUMEROUS times, with various aircraft, at various locations, witnessed by thousands of people, before 1906.

Cliff
DTW



TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
User currently offlineBeltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20813 times:

You can define "flight," "powered flight," and "heavier-than-air" lots of ways. So there can be several different "100th Anniversaries of Flight." I have no qualms if anyone else celebrates another event. They were all milestones and all deserve to be celebrated.

I guess for some, though, it becomes a basis for advancing some anti-American agenda. I think it is safe to say that the Wrights' flight was among the few events that deserve to be celebrated -- even if it is an event that occurred in America.


User currently offlineTrent900 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 532 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20735 times:

Not true. Lockheed did it with the F-16 before Airbus did it with the A-320.

Wasn't Concorde fly-by-wire?  Confused


User currently offlineIfly2eat From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 20734 times:

Sounds like sour grapes to me. See how long it takes Europeans to get over something. Apparently more than 100 years. Spare me.


Fly the friendly skys and stay out of mine.
25 Garnetpalmetto : That it was, Trent. Pardon me for focusing exclusively on digital fbw.
26 RiverVisualNYC : Seriously people, I think regardless of where it started, we all have to celebrate flight today, and how far it has come in 100 years. Here in NYC, wh
27 Elwood64151 : By the logic of the original post, Yuri Gagarin was not the first man in space. He did not land in his capsule, but rather parachuted to earth outside
28 Zak : to add another name in, Gustav Weißkopf did his first motor flight in 1901 shortly after he moved to the usa from germany.
29 Ren41 : IMO and in the opinion of most of the world, Americans want to be the best and first at everything and will lie to do so..... the "Wright Flyer" and "
30 Trent900 : In my own endangered mind tomorrow at work I'll be celebrating, as I would say 'powered, controllable flight of a heavier then air craft'. I was hopi
31 Post contains images SSRJ : Daedalus guys. Built wings of feather and wax. He was heavier than air. And he was powered by his muscles. Stay Happy people! The Wrights did it. -RM
32 LMP737 : "There coming to take me away HA, HA, HE, HE!!!"
33 Post contains images RIX : "That's just like us Americans isn't it? Not respecting the international rules of flight! " - ROTFL! "The moon has NO ATMOSPHERE " - that's just like
34 KBOS : The Wright brothers did not catapult the flyer into the air. They used a wooden rail to prevent the flyer from sinking into the sand, remember Kill De
35 Luisinho : yes trent900, it was catapulted, not used is own power. It was catapulted and had some strong front winds, and so, he act like a glider and then felt
36 Trent900 : But does it matter if it was catapulted? Catapults are used to shorten the t/o distance. I'm sure if it hadnt been it still would have made it. Trent.
37 SSRJ : Luisinho Last time I checked. EVERY pilot wants "strong front winds" Also, you said you just read about "this big hoax" today? Boy you are surely easi
38 ORDagent : Remember that it isn't always the person that invented the thing, it is the person that invented the thing that got noticed because it was more useful
39 Luisinho : Trent900 Imagine that you throw a rock, the rock flies. Do you considere that a valid flight? That's why some fisics from university of Sao Paulo, are
40 SSRJ : The flag on the moon thing. YES the moon has NO atmosphere. BUT The lunar module had ROCKET EXHAUST GASES that would have BLOWN the FLAG AROUND! HOW T
41 RIX : "after reading this i changed my mind 180º!" - and do you think Yuri Gagarin was the first in space? Now get ready to change your mind another 180º.
42 Trent900 : Luisinho, You have got a very good point. Some people say a golf ball 'fly's' through the air. But I dont think the Flyer would have managed to travel
43 Bobnwa : MartinairYYZ, Do you have any other conspiracies you can enlighten the group with? I did not relalize the truth about Kitty Hawk andthe man on the moo
44 Post contains images MartinairYYZ : """"The lunar module had ROCKET EXHAUST GASES that would have BLOWN the FLAG AROUND! HOW THE HECK ELSE WOULD THEY HAVE GOTTEN OFF THE MOON? SLINGSHOT?
45 Racko : You are all wrong. It was actually me who first flew in 1899. Of course I've been reborn several times, the last time after I staged the moon landing.
46 757KSLC : So do you think the Write brothers were just dreamed up? You say Santos Dumont flew in 1906, but the Write brothers flew in 1903. So unless they were
47 DLMHT : I'm telling you, it was Daedalus and his son Icarus (sp?), with their wings made of wax and feathers. They flew long before anyone else, and they cert
48 Carlos1979 : Its always good to see such a lively and fiesty debate in the A.net forums. Can we at least agree on one thing; that we're a lot better off today bec
49 J.mo : Is the 17th of December the biggest lie of all time? Because I thought February 31st was a pretty big lie.
50 Post contains images N243NW : My friends: Think about it; if the Wrights catapulted an airplane into the air that was not capable of flight, it would have never lifted off. I'd har
51 Trent900 : Thanks N243NW, Im pleased someone else thinks this. Great minds think alike Trent.
52 HlywdCatft : Sounds like a conspiracy the French drew up because they hate Americans and would love to discredit them any way that they can by saying that the firs
53 Dsuairptman : Regardless of what any knucklehead says, the Wright Bros. are and always will be the first to launch the world into powered flight! The use of catapul
54 Post contains images Lapa_saab340 : The whole idea sounds ridiculous to me. If you bother to visit Kill Devil Hills, the stones placed there to simbolize the landing of those 4 flights t
55 BHXviscount : I read somewhere that a New Zealander flew a month before the wright bros
56 Futureualpilot : There is always going to be somebody who wants to discredit somebody else, whether or not the Wright's did it(which I believe they did btw), whether o
57 MontanaFL : Are there any ADULTS making comments in this thread?
58 DeltaSFO : Are there any ADULTS making comments in this thread? As usual, no, there are not.
59 Post contains images TG992 : BHX - the New Zealander you're thinking of was Richard Pearse. Here are the facts. 1) Pearse was a reclusive farmer and part-time inventor, with vario
60 Aloha717200 : I dont know where the heck you got this information from, but it's completely inaccurate. The Wright Flyer did indeed fly in 1903, it only flew for a
61 MIAMIx707 : Are there any ADULTS making comments in this thread? -As usual, no, there are not. LOL at least this ridiculous thread ended with some humor
62 Indianguy : Luisinho: It doesnt matter whether the Wright Brothers were indeed the first to be successful at powered flight or not. LEsson to all prospective inve
63 Startvalve : I smell jealous Euro-trash. Guys accept it. You did not do everything first. Sorry but the first in flight were two Americans, Ohioans from Dayton. Th
64 Post contains images Positive rate : The flag waving on the moon is very simple to explain. The flag had a flexible rod inside it to make it stay up(since there is no wind to keep it up)
65 Aloha717200 : And as for MartinairYYZ's dense comment, ummmmm, can you show me where in the moon footage the flag is flapping and waving around? Oh you mean when th
66 InnocuousFox : Look, kiddies... "100 years" is some sort of arbitrary line in the chronological sand. Someone flew before, someone made it better... and now we fly l
67 Longhaulheavy : Startvalve: I smell jealous Euro-trash. Haha...that reminds me of a buddy of mine in the Netherlands. He's still pissed about the international dialin
68 Startvalve : Hey somebody has to be first.. that also means somebody is going to be last.
69 Commander_Rabb : The Wright's from Ohio, U.S.A. were the first. No revisionist of history can ever change that. The legacy is that the United States leads in Aviation.
70 Post contains images MartinairYYZ : Are there any ADULTS making comments in this thread? I don't know..... They mostly say out of eruptive threads such as this! You and the original post
71 Post contains images Aviaar : Luisinho- I was reading your post and I am very mad now! Get some manners man. Talk this over with your Portuguese friends. You got a lot of guts comi
72 CanadianNorth : wtf people... they catapulted, or they took off. In the end they both end up flying, so whats the diff? Yes, the takeoff is not under its own power, b
73 Futureualpilot : Appearently there is some difference if you are catapulted or do it under your own power. I know there is some, but the craft still flew under its own
74 Cfalk : The Wright Brothers were not only the first in selfpowered flight, but also the first crash of such an aircraft. They crashed it a few hours after the
75 Francoflier : December 17th sounds a reasonable date to celebrate 100 years of powered flights. Truth is, the Wrights Brothers were dedicated, aviation lovers, not
76 DeltaSFO : Wasnt there any aviation before that event even assuming that it was indeed the first time that powered flight was acheived? Arent Airships, Baloons,
77 Aaron747 : The biggest lie of the 20th century is that there's a moon hoax at all.
78 Imisspiedmont : "I read in the past year that a guy living near Phoenix, AZ made and flew a number of aircraft BEFORE 1903. He did all of the work by himself, without
79 UALPHLCS : Actually it says on a website that the first people to fly were actually Persians who used battery powered carpets some 2500 years ago. The moon landi
80 Ssides : The biggest lie of the 20th Century is that all of you exist. You don't, you're all just figaments of my imagination; I can cease your being at once i
81 Saleem : OK, if it is true that this is biggest lie of All Times, then we must celebrate this biggest lie, so there is nothing stopping us celebrating this day
82 Spyglass : Well, been followin' the threads on this most interesting forum for a couple yrs now...never felt inclined to join in but did occasionally pick up som
83 Lhr001 : Luisinho, You are absolutely correct about Santos-Dumont. However, you must all take into effect the ideas and the porported rumors about Leonardo da
84 Post contains images Petrouchka : The Wright Brothers made the first flight in 1903 and then immediately bombed the smack out of a small, impoverished, third-world country. Because tha
85 CainanUK : Spyglass.... Welcome to airliners.net and welcome to my respected users list. Bravo!!
86 Post contains images Boeing777/747 : Here is the plane and pilot you are talking about:
87 Post contains images 737doctor : What in the hell is everyone talking about? THE WRIGHTS DID NOT USE A CATAPULT! It was Charles Manly flying the "Great Aerodrome" designed by Samuel P
88 Planemaker : "Success four flights Thursday morning all against twenty one mile wind started from level with engine power alone average speed through air thirty on
89 United4ever : Come on guys, stop arguing about this. There can be no doubt that the Wright Brothers did indeed make the first proven powered flight in 1903 and took
90 Olympus69 : 737doctor and Planemaker have just pre-epmted the post I was going to make. The catapult confusion seems to have originated because the Langley Aerodr
91 Covert : What a waste of bamdwidth. Regardless of who came first, we have aeroplanes today to drool over. covert
92 B747FAN : Hey MatinairYYZ, You have to be the stupidist person on this planet. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. Your jealousy is exemplified in
93 Juanr : I don't care of the Wright Brothers were the first or not, however I found this new quite interesting:...... Re-Enactment of Wright Bros. Flight Fails
94 Startvalve : Who are we kidding.. the first flight was some caveman faling off a cliff 4000 years ago.. first powered flight was a few years later when another cav
95 Post contains images Birdwatching : But if there really is no atmosphere on the moon (which I doubt), then how could the Wright Brothers breathe when they landed there? Happy Birthday Av
96 InnocuousFox : "Here is the plane and pilot you are talking about:" Wow. I thought A.net took only good quality photos... that one is very grainy!
97 Elwood64151 : The Wright brothers did not catapult the flyer into the air Actually, they did use a catapult to overcome inertia. It was small and was only used for
98 Richierich : This thread takes the cake as one of the stupidest ever. It barely deserves a response except to say that IT SUCKS! Let's face facts. None of us here
99 Post contains images N766UA : Hey guys, I heard somewhere that the moon landing never happened either! The aicraft of wright brothers was catapulted, not respecting the internation
100 Post contains images Luisinho : hii guys! I was investigating about those international rules for flight with machines heavy then air, and i discovered that to consider that you have
101 Positive rate : I find it really amazing how none of this "Wright brothers weren't the first to fly" crap only surfaces on the 100th anniversary of man's first powere
102 Post contains images Aloha717200 : It's a bunch of anti-american hogwash is what it is. Because the Wrights were Americans, someone of course has to bash them. I'm getting extremely wea
103 MITaero : >But if someone have more info... Flight instructors or something related, engineers or something... please post! Engineer says: please do some real r
104 Bobs89irocz : I guess the space shuttle doesnt count as a flight either does it? Really i dont know this is a real question. I would think it would be but since its
105 Hmmmm... : The Wright brothers were the first to: 1.make a controlled flight, 2.using control surfaces, (rudder, elevator, ailerons) 3.under propulsion. That was
106 Db777 : Luis says: "I was investigating about those international rules for flight with machines heavy then air, and i discovered that to consider that you ha
107 HlywdCatft : IF the Wright Brothers used a catapault for take off, don't you think they would have pattened that too when the US Navy started using them on the air
108 Wannabe : The Wright Flyer FLOWN on December 17, 1903 was not catapulted. Look at the famous photo of the event. http://www.fi.edu/flights/first/during.html The
109 AGM100 : The history of powered flight has so many highlights that span all countries and races. Breakthrough developments have happened truly on an internatio
110 Post contains images Ils33 : Then Link Below answers evry question http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/12/17/first.flight/index.html[Edited 2003-12-18 16:26:26][Edited 2003-12-18 16:28
111 Garnetpalmetto : IF the Wright Brothers used a catapault for take off, don't you think they would have pattened that too when the US Navy started using them on the air
112 Scf158 : How can you doubt the wright brothers??? what you think it was a big scam and that someone staged the whole thing in 1903?? thats crazy... The idea ha
113 Post contains images SafetyDude : I believe that something that has been greatly mistaken is about the Wright's flights. The first two "flights" were not flights, they were simply a re
114 Rkmcswain : I didn't read this entire thread, so if I'm repeating someone - sorry.Regardless of who is was and under what criteria it occured, the Wright Bros. wi
115 Post contains images Mark_D. : There's plenty of emotionalism and overreaction here, on both 'sides' of this often- religious debate right here First of all, AGM100 just said so su
116 Marcopolo747 : Luis, Even though you are right, you'll never get the anglos and yankees to reckon, better to leave them alone with their illusions. By the way, did y
117 Mark_D. : Marcopolo747-- By the way, did you see the flop of the Flyer replica ? No further comments will be necessary..... I think it just shows that the early
118 Luisinho : To marcopolo747: Check this link and see the fotos! Check the back foto of the flyer taking off and see the catapult highlighted on the foto, as other
119 Martin21 : Luisinho, do you really think YOU can change 100 years of history ?! It doesn't really matter if they used a catapult or not.... They made the world b
120 Jj : The fact that the wind was a key factor cannot be denied. But I believe the Wrights were the first ones to fly. There are witnesses and lots of pictur
121 Post contains images Mark_D. : Jj. the Wrights flew before Santos Dumont. End of story. Well they probably did, yeah. But Alberto did have the first absolutely incontrovertible and
122 RIX : It's 100th anniversary of aviation. It's aviation enthusiasts forum. A whole topic (and some posts to other threads) are devoted to: 1. The first flig
123 Kempa : Americans will never accept that the Wright Brothers were not first, even if it is proven that they weren't. Brazilians will never accept that Alberto
124 Post contains images Mark_D. : RIX-- This is what I call an utter idiocy. Fair enough As you said though, It's aviation enthusiasts forum. so it being a forum there're bound to be a
125 Post contains links LHMark : To comment on something that Roy brought up: The Wright Brothers weren't actually that good at P.R. Langley and his crony Glenn Curtiss were. Until af
126 Post contains images RIX : Mark_D., "a few different views on a few things!" - yes, as well as a few different views on these few different views . "this is more of a multi-year
127 Post contains images Mark_D. : RIX-- Of course, we could discuss what took place on Dec 17th, 1903 in a friendly, educated, respectful manner. But look at the very beginning: "The F
128 Post contains images RIX : Mark_D. - agree. As for even worse-- "[17th December -] The Biggest Lie of All Times" - I really liked this (by J.mo): "I thought February 31st was a
129 FutureFO : Be adv that there is a gag order out there by the survivors of Orville and Wilbur issued to the Smithsonian Inst. that they can not release any info o
130 Moolies : I have heard from more than one person that there was a man in Durban South African who flew befoer the 17th of december 1903. How true it is I dont k
131 Futureualpilot : This debate is still going on? Me thinks it is time to drop it and move on.
132 Moolies : Some one should resolve it once and for all.
133 Olympus69 : Some one should resolve it once and for all Maybe this will do it. The home page of the website of the Federation Aeronautique Internationale (www.fai
134 Quetzalcoatl : As far as I know, Brazil is in America. United States is in America So any way you see it, the first sustained and controlled heavier than air powered
135 Alphascan : Perception is reality. End of story.
136 Post contains images Luisinho : WOW 135 replays and 10002 visits... aren't we breaking any record? talking about first flight... and etc... Regards... thanks to all who posted!
137 Slamclick : A few things to set straight. "First" as used in this issue is more of a media or pop phrase than a statement of absolute. It is therefore subject to
138 Post contains links 737doctor : Sorry, Chief... This miserable thread doesn't even come close to a record: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/568411/4/
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