Luisinho From Portugal, joined Nov 2000, 229 posts, RR: 1 Posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 22494 times:
I was reading all the posts about 17th December and the big flight and i'm very mad by now.
The Flight of Wright Brothers is a BIG LIE. This is one of the biggest lies of all times. The first flight ever made by man was made by the Brazilian SANTOS DUMOND in Paris in 1906.
You can read about it on: http://www.thefirsttofly.hpg.ig.com.br/pioneer2.htm
The flight from wright brothers was not a true flight. The aicraft of wright brothers was catapulted, not respecting the international rules for flight with machines heavy then air. So... why everybody says that Wright brothers were first?
Santos Dumont appears in the first place and the Wright brothers only in 8th. (Note: the “National Aeronautics” is a magazine of the United States). Why? Very simply because, just as in all conquests and competitions, in all branches of activity – sport or science – the records are ratified by scientific commissions and the first flight verified in this way was that one made by Alberto Santos Dumond.
Santos Dumond Flew in Paris, with his 14 Bis, In October 23, 1906 the Brazilian Alberto Santos Dumont made the first mechanical flight on a heavier-than-air machine: at 4 p.m. his airplane, the “14-bis”, rose from the ground and traveled the distance of 60 meters at a height of 2 to 3 meters: a small flight for a man but a great flight for humanity!
Here is a comparison between the power and the mass of the “14-bis” and the “Flyer”:
Year Pilot Airplane Engine Mass Velocity to take-off Relation power/mass
1903 Wright Flyer 12 hp 340kg 50 km/h 1 cv to each 28,3 kg
1906 Dumont 14-bis 50 hp 290 kg 41 km/h 1 cv to each 5,8 kg
The relation power/mass of the Wright’s airplane is evident that the same could never fly.
TheNorth-American Ken Hyde, a expert builder of replicas of the first Wright Flyer, in an interview to “The News Observer” of December 15, 2002, declared:
“WE KNOW HOW TO PUT THE MAN ON THE MOON, BUT WE HAVE NOT BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN FLYING A TRUE WRIGHT AIRPLANE.”
Conclusion: Santos Dumont was indubitable the first man to fly in an airplane. The North Americans historians do not have any proof for promoting the Wright brothers as the first to fly.
When Santos Dumont decided to attack the problem of the mechanical flight, this conception was considered utopian by his contemporaries, and remained so until 1905. After Dumont’s flight, nobody doubted more of the possibility of the mechanical flight. French Captain Ferber in his book “Aviation” written in 1907, says: “The Brazilian inventor has proved that flying machines can fly,” which is equivalent to saying that until then nobody else had.
These are his own words, taken from pages 97 and 98 of his book:
“On October 23rd, before the Aviation Committee, at 4.45 p.m. the airplane rose from the ground, gently and without the slightest jolt. The crowd, astonished, had the impression that a miracle had been performed and at first were struck dumb with admiration; then they raised a shout of enthusiasm as the plane landed, and rushed forward to carry the aviator in triumph.”
And, a few lines further on:
“The record was raised to 220 meters a month later and the news flashed round the world at lightning speed. A new era opened from this date because the paralyzing spell had been broken. It had been proved that flying machines could fly.”
The airplane of the Wright brothers could not take off under its own power, even in 1908. Without a catapult to launch the airplane or sufficient headwinds, the Wright’s machine could not fly. Compare the flight of Santos-Dumont's Demoiselle with one of the Wright's European flights!
So... guys... after all this... tell me what you think!
Caetravlr From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 22016 times:
I think that if any amount of travel by a heavier than air piece of equipment occurred, then it was the first flight. Lift occured on the wings of the Wright Flyer. The short sustainment of the flight was due to the propulsion of the engine on it, no matter how underpowered.
By the logic put forth above, it seems that our carrier based supersonic jet fighters are not truly aircraft either? Aren't they in fact catapulted off of the deck of the carrier?
Just a different point of view,
A woman drove me to drink and I didn't have the decency to thank her. - W.C. Fields
Futterman From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1301 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21876 times:
it's been debated for the longest time, and in some cases actually proven. but, only the Wright Brothers were responsible for launching the age of aviation. can you, or anyone dispute that?
their construction and piloting of a heavier-than-air aircraft is profound and celebrated. without them, though, flying would just be another side show...something at a stund devil does to entertain the masses. they popularized their success, and look what came of it.
again, the Wright Brothers's claim to being the first to accomplish powered flight--with or without a catapault--is debateable. however, the birth and growth of the aviation industry is attributable to them.
Garnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5444 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21852 times:
Just one more point here. The "international rules for flight with machines heavier than air" you mentioned. Who, exactly set them up, and when? Wouldn't it seem rather convenient for someone who didn't wish to see a pair of Midwestern bumpkins like the Wrights to conveniently say "Guess what? Their flight was the first one, but it won't count as the first one because we'll make standards that will disqualify them after the fact!" I highly doubt any international rules existed prior to the Wrights making their flight.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
Even Santos-Dumont experts like Lins de Barros concede this is wrong. But he says that the strong, steady winds at Kitty Hawk were crucial for the Flyer's take-off, disqualifying the flight because there was no proof it could lift off on its own.
Peter Jakab, chairman of the aeronautics division at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and a Wright brothers expert, says such claims are preposterous.
By the time Santos-Dumont got around to his maiden flight the Wright brothers had already flown numerous times, including one in which they flew 24 miles (39 km) in 40 minutes.
"Even in 1903 the airplane sustained itself in the air for nearly a minute. If it's not sustaining itself under its own power it's not going to stay up that long," Jakab says.
Even in France -- never a country too eager to agree with the U.S. point of view -- the Wrights are considered to have flown before Santos-Dumont, says Claude Carlier, the director of the French Center for the History of Aeronautics and Space.
MartinairYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21805 times:
IMO and in the opinion of most of the world, Americans want to be the best and first at everything and will lie to do so..... the "Wright Flyer" and "Landing on the moon" as 2 examples. This is not the peoples' falut but that of the government.
Nobody in the history of man has ever landed on the moon-- that's why they don't do it anymore. Not becuase or "Money problems" but becuase it has to be filmed.
Think logically!! The moon has NO ATMOSPHERE and therefore a flag CAN NOT WAVE ON THE MOON as in all the pictures and clips.
The whole thing is a hoax and the world is full of scammers.
AWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21707 times:
"flag CAN NOT WAVE ON THE MOON"
Let me see the flag has supports running across it that give it the look likes its waving in the wind. We did land on the moon and anyone who does not beleive that we did has got to be a moron or a 13 to 15 year old Canadian.
Luisinho From Portugal, joined Nov 2000, 229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21682 times:
And what about this on NEWSWEEK MAGAZINE????
A related letter appeared in Newsweek (Nov 24, 2003, p 18; powered flights long before the Wright brothers):
The first powered, controlled, sustained flight took place 50 years before the Wright brothers, in 1852 (Henri Giffard flew 15 miles with a steam engine mounted on a dirigible). He went nearly 100 times as far as the Wright brothers did. The Zeppelins were powered as well, of course, but the first powered heavier-than-air flight took place in 1890 (Clement Ader, steam engine on bat-winged monoplane, 60 yards). The Wrights' 1903 flight (300 yards) was the first photographed heavier-than-air flight. [Correction: not quite true; there exist photos of Lilienthal's non-powered heavier-than-air flights in the 1890s; error inserted by Newsweek editors.] After the advent of relatively light combustion engines (such as Benz, Otto, Diesel), other pioneers pursued similar approaches, but no photographs were taken by Richard Pearse (New Zealand, March 1903) and Karl Jatho (August 1903). Finally, the Wrights needed headwinds or catapults to start their planes, so they were not fully self-powered. But Brazil's Santos-Dumont was (1906, first official airplane flight).
USAir330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 835 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21666 times:
"Nobody in the history of man has ever landed on the moon-- that's why they don't do it anymore. Not becuase or "Money problems" but becuase it has to be filmed."
Yeah so Armstrong said bye to his family, pretended to get on the shuttle and then got out the shuttle with the escape pod (like in the movie air force 1) and then went to this little room where they had a set up of the moon and earth in the backround.... Oh yeah a hoax.... LoL ..... newayz..... The whole world has added to aviation ..... American's being the first to fly.... Germany being the first to make a jet engine.......Russia being the first to send a man into outer space (Atleast I think) .... Airbus being the first to use FlyBywire (Again I think) .... The whole world has added to aviation, but without the Wright Flyer's giving hope to the concept of flight, today there could be no flight... We can all be traveling to Puerto Rico or Europe by Super Sonic Ships! LMAO
Startvalve From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21397 times:
And those white trails in the sky are mind control chemicals. Get a frigging clue already. They did it, they had a picture to prove it, there were later movies to prove later versions of their airplane flew and we have airplanes that fly today. Yeah that moon landing was real fake thats why we spent those billions of dollars on it. Also flouridation of the water is a communist plot.. some people need more to worry about
Atpcliff From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21310 times:
Actually, neither Santos-Dumont NOR the Wright Brothers were the 1st to fly a powered-heavier-than-air aircraft in controlled, sustained flight.
I read in the past year that a guy living near Phoenix, AZ made and flew a number of aircraft BEFORE 1903. He did all of the work by himself, without any correspondence with anyone else.
Unfortunately for him, he didn't think it was a big deal, so he didn't tell anyone about it. There are numerous eyewitnesses who had seen his numerous flights, but there is now written records, no press, no officials, just a guy flying his invention out of his backyard.
Officially, the Wright Bros are recognized as the first. The Santos Dumont thing is RIDICULOUS. The Wright Bros flew NUMEROUS times, with various aircraft, at various locations, witnessed by thousands of people, before 1906.
TRY. It's all you have control over, and it's what God wants.
Beltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 21118 times:
You can define "flight," "powered flight," and "heavier-than-air" lots of ways. So there can be several different "100th Anniversaries of Flight." I have no qualms if anyone else celebrates another event. They were all milestones and all deserve to be celebrated.
I guess for some, though, it becomes a basis for advancing some anti-American agenda. I think it is safe to say that the Wrights' flight was among the few events that deserve to be celebrated -- even if it is an event that occurred in America.