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Sydney Kingsford Smith Traffic!  
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

Just visited the Sydney Airport Site & couldn't help notice that over the next 20 years & beyond the traffic is expected at the same flow as of London Heathrow.

What I would like to know is ;

A) How do they expect Sydney Airport to handle the traffic flow the same as LHR without major refurbishing of the terminals & aprons?

B) Have the same runway operations without having a runway allocated to landings & the other for take-offs.

C) The airport handles 24 million passengers per annum & people complain as it is, so can anyone imagine when it is handling 66 million???

D) Why are they continuing to delay the approval of Sydney's 2nd International Airport???

Any comments would be great.



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

D) Why are they continuing to delay the approval of Sydney's 2nd International Airport???

I think the answer to that is the stupid public. There were plans to build the second airport at Badgery's creek but the local citizens put up a hell of a fight to stop it. Eventually it's gonna have to be built somewhere wether these fools like it or not.



User currently offlineCayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Is that future estimate not a little far fetched, pie in the sky?

No disrespect to Sydney, but it is not well positioned to be a major hub, as to O&D traffic it will always do well but with 19M people in all of Australia it's a little hard to grasp how they expect to run 66M pax a year through there. It's not that big a city in the grand scheme of things, why 66M pax would need to transit through that airport is hard to envisage.

On the other hand, those future estimates often pre-suppose that airiline traffic will skyrocket globally, so therefore if SYD is going to do 66M pax then LHR should be mathematically going to do about 180M pax and we all know there are limits.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Positive rate
Thanks for your comment.
The public is a big problem around Sydney Airports operations & not to mention the second airport at Badgery's Creek. I can understand that back in the early 50's,60's & 70's you didn't have as many aircraft operating in and out of Sydney BUT should of been expected to build up over time.
I really hope they come to an agreement on Sydney's Second airport issue or face the same problems that LHR is experiencing today & not to mention that there are two major international airports, LHR & LGW to control the traffic flow & still struggling!

Before I receive any comments like 'How would you like to live under the flight path', 'How would you like to put up with the noise' etc etc.
I live right next door to the airport & I receive aircraft noise from every direction, be it Rwy 34,16,07 & 25 I receive noise & I live with it!



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Is that future estimate not a little far fetched, pie in the sky?

No disrespect to Sydney, but it is not well positioned to be a major hub, as to O&D traffic it will always do well but with 19M people in all of Australia it's a little hard to grasp how they expect to run 66M pax a year through there. It's not that big a city in the grand scheme of things, why 66M pax would need to transit through that airport is hard to envisage.

On the other hand, those future estimates often pre-suppose that airline traffic will skyrocket globally, so therefore if SYD is going to do 66M pax then LHR should be mathematically going to do about 180M pax and we all know there are limits.

Cayman you made a very good point. Lets say Sydney does get to 66m pax per year as LHR?
Would Sydney Kingsford Smith manage with that load?
I know Sydney isnt seen as a major hub BUT its the gateway to OZ & that's why I see Sydney receiving more traffic in the future.



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineCayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

EK413, please don't misunderstand me, I do not presume to know the market down there well enough to make specific predictions, and I have no doubt SYD will see considerably more traffic, bustling economy and definitely a gateway to Autsralia.

My only point was that I think the 66M figure that was thrown out there maybe a little unrealistic. That would be almost trebling the current pax loads, so you have to think where would those numbers come from? Are O&D pax going to travel 3x more often, or are 3x as many people going to visit Australia? Well, maybe in combination you'll see more traffic, probably much more, but a jump from 24M too 66M in that time period would be an anomaly.

I have no doubt SYD will see very signficant and steady growth, but 5% per year would be high and if you sustain 5% per year it's a LONG time before you hit 66M.

I think if you go to most airport websites you will see that they have unrealistic absolute best case scenario predicitions for "future traffic" etc...it's a great way for them to jutsify capital budgets. 10 years ago or so I remember at MCO they were claiming Orlando would "turn 50M pax annually by the 'turn of the century'. Accordingly they got a big expanison, and deservedly so...they do tons of traffic, just nowhere near the 50M suggested.


User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

No disrespect to Sydney, but it is not well positioned to be a major hub, as to O&D traffic it will always do well but with 19M people in all of Australia it's a little hard to grasp how they expect to run 66M pax a year through there.

Actually we've just hit 20million thank you very much. Population size is never an accurate means of determining the traffic that passes through a place. Major hubs such as Singapore and Dubai have less than 5 million people respectively. Australia may not be in a central geographic position as you perceive it (although distances are relative), however Sydney airport has in the past been the busiest airport in the world outside of the United States. It is an international gateway not only to Australia, but New Zealand, the Pacific and from Australia - Asia, Europe, North and South America. A great deal of people going to a great many places pass through Sydney, believe me - it ain't the "end of the line" you make it to be.

It's not that big a city in the grand scheme of things, why 66M pax would need to transit through that airport is hard to envisage.

You think Sydney is small? The city has a population larger than the national population of New Zealand. It is a booming metropolis with endless opportunities.

I recommend you actually visit Sydney before you pigeon-hole it into nothingness.

QFF


User currently offlineCayman From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 905 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2885 times:

Very unnecessary for your response to be that defensive.

However, let me assure you that SYD has NEVER been "the busiest airport in the world outside the USA". i don't know what you intended to say, but Try

LHR
HND
FRA
CDG
AMS
MAD
HKG
LGW
BKK
SIN
YYZ
FCO
NRT

to name but some which surpass SYD. But lest we forget, bigger is not better and you should not read into that an insult, because it is not.

You are also awfully defensive on the size of the city itself. Great, so what? greater Sydney is bigger than New Zealand? So are most of the major metropolitan areas in US and canada. Start including Asia and latin America and many of their megacities are bigger than AUSTRALIA itself!

No one is pigeon holing anybody. I made an objective observation when I saw a reference to SYD expecting 66M pax a year in the near future. I think it is ludicrously high. That does not mean I am slamming Australia or Sydney or the airport or the southern hemisphere or anything tied into it.

With all due respect, there is no need to get so personally defensive on these forums. Yes, some of us can actually question traffic predictions and not intend some hidden meaning to degrade, belittle or otherwise insult you, your fine city or your fine country. It is actually possible for me to question the accuracy of the 66M a year pax prediction and not by extension be dis-respecting everything south of the equator.


User currently offlineBik From New Zealand, joined Mar 2003, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Don't get upset Qantasforever!

Cayman is right when he says that SYD is not that big in a grand scheme of things.
Look at London, New York, Tokyo, hell look at any big indian city and the numbers are mind bogling. So in my opinion SYD is big but not too big and thats the way it should be.

And please do not always take NZ as an example of a country with small population. There are plenty of countries around this world that have less people living in it.

Cheers


User currently offlineAN727 From Australia, joined Apr 2000, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2871 times:

The pop of Sydney is 4 million and state of NSW pop is 5.5 million.
Over 1000 people a week is moving to Sydney. The pop of NSW in 20 years may match that of London.


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3236 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

I love Sydney, it's an awesome city with a cool airport. But I don't understand why they need a second airport. SYD has independent parallel runways, allowing for simultaneous takeoffs and landings. Add in the 3rd cross-field runway, with procedures to "shoot the gap", like they do with intersecting runways at LGA, and SYD essentially has 3 runways which can be used at the same time. Either 2 for landing and one for takeoff, or 2 for takeoff and one for landing.

Is this not the case? Are there severe noise abatement procedures preventing the 3 runways from being used at the same time? Are the controllers a lot more conservative when it comes to spacing? Someone down there please fill me in, because with the exising runway layout it would appear that SYD has more runway capacity than LHR, HKG, and many others.



FLYi
User currently offlineQantasclub From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 757 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Sydney is the most beautiful city in the world regardless of size, cultural importance, etc and I challenge anyone who has ever been in the middle of Sydney harbor at sunset to suggest otherwise. There, now that we have layed down that fact;
Kingsford Smith IS congested. If you've ever travelled through it, theres no more room to expand, delays are common and being so close to the city, noise pollution is always going to be a problem. Infrastructure around the airport and train coonections, freeways, etc are pretty much as good as they will get and the government needs to be looking beyond 20-30 years down the track for a second airport. Sydney's traffic is pretty awful and road links to the periphery are going to be a problem. Also, the federal funding required for such a project will ensure that it remains a backburner issue as long as state and federal governments continue to argue over just about anything and everything.
In terms of traffic growth, I agree that Syd will never rival LHR or LAX in terms of volume of traffic but it will definedtly increase steadily, given the city's huge prominence amongst travellers and tourists.
By the way, I LOVE qantas's domestic terminal at SYD. Huge Qantasclub lounge and pretty cool architecture.



Long Haul is the only way to go
User currently offlineHigh_flyr69 From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 510 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

AN727 Wrote:
The pop of Sydney is 4 million and state of NSW pop is 5.5 million.
Over 1000 people a week is moving to Sydney. The pop of NSW in 20 years may match that of London.


Very true. But on the other side of things a greater number of people are leaving Sydney due to the overly expensive Real Estate. People just cant afford to live there.

Put that aside, SYD managment really need to start getting their act together. The traffic WILL increase. The PAX loads will climb. The current infrastructure and runway/taxiway layout does work and work well but in the not too distant future things will surely do a turn for the worst. Maybe a mass project to build land out near rwy34 L and R and have a new international terminal built there might be on the cards, however i imagine the costs of such a project would probably far exceed the amount affordable for whatever action is taken.
cheers and merry christmas to all
high_flyr69.
Sydney is a great city but i really wouldnt want to stay there to long.



Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice Doggy' until you find the shot gun
User currently offlineQANTASFOREVER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

Very unnecessary for your response to be that defensive.

I'm stating my point of view and various facts in a clear and direct manner. I'm defending nothing and no one.

However, let me assure you that SYD has NEVER been "the busiest airport in the world outside the USA". i don't know what you intended to say

So let me assure you that SYD HAS been the "businest airport in the world outside the USA." There were times in the 40's and 50's where Sydney outranked every airport on your list.

You are also awfully defensive on the size of the city itself. Great, so what? greater Sydney is bigger than New Zealand? So are most of the major metropolitan areas in US and canada. Start including Asia and latin America and many of their megacities are bigger than AUSTRALIA itself!

I applaud your geographical knowledge however I do not feel compelled to jump to the defence of my city. It is exactly what I said it was in my original post and nothing can change that. I was simply correcting an earlier statement. I am aware that there are cities with populations larger than Australia. However I also recognise that population size does not relate directly to aircraft movements and passengers carried at a particular airport.

No one is pigeon holing anybody. I made an objective observation when I saw a reference to SYD expecting 66M pax a year in the near future. I think it is ludicrously high. That does not mean I am slamming Australia or Sydney or the airport or the southern hemisphere or anything tied into it.

I'm leaping to the defence of the southern hemisphere now am I? Should I be wearing a cape?

The whole thesis of my post was essentially: why you found it so hard to believe that Sydney airport traffic could reach 66mil? I am not paranoid about international perceptions of my city - I assure you that Sydneysiders couldn't give a rats ass. Just ask Australians who don't live in Sydney  Big grin .

With all due respect, there is no need to get so personally defensive on these forums. Yes, some of us can actually question traffic predictions and not intend some hidden meaning to degrade, belittle or otherwise insult you, your fine city or your fine country.

And with all due respect to you, I have been in these forums for a number of years now and am fully aware of what I need and need not do. Question traffic predictions by all means, but balance your questions with an informed judgement of the technicalities.

It is actually possible for me to question the accuracy of the 66M a year pax prediction and not by extension be dis-respecting everything south of the equator.

But you were not questioning the accuracy of predictions, you were questioning the airport and city itself without closely determining the facts behind them. Sydney is big in the scheme of things, just as Singapore, Dubai and other hubs with comparatively small populations are.

Bik:So in my opinion SYD is big but not too big and thats the way it should be.

The way it should be? Is there currently a rugby match in progress between our two countries? Why should Sydney be "...big but not too big..."?

And please do not always take NZ as an example of a country with small population. There are plenty of countries around this world that have less people living in it.

You are right. I should find another country to use as an example. I certainly didn't mean to offend you. Singapore will do in future. Although I imagine a number of Singaporeans may object. :P
QFF


User currently offlineKingsford From Belgium, joined Nov 2003, 427 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Kingsford Smith is indeed full and a second airport should be considered. However, as we all agree, the city is crawling, crawling further west and new locations pleasing everyone will be harder to find.

How about building another one on the Ocean ? After all SYD is already half on water...

How about further developing Tullamarine (MEL) or BNE as a regional 'HUB'?

The Germans have further developed MUC after FRA ...


I agree with QantasClub & High Fly69 :

I had the chance to visit many times and even live in Sydney (Bondi Junction) when I was a teenager : It is a great city, probably indeed the most beautiful in the world. But also one of the most expensive in the world and one has to have a lot of money to afford to live in the places that make this city so beautiful. Also morning traffic is a nightmare. So unless one is a tourist, expat or millionnaire, I would put a bit more perspective as to how great it is to live in Sydney.





User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

Thanks for all the replies in regards to Sydney Kingsford Smith. I never intended to get so many responses on the issue.


Pitrules

I love Sydney, it's an awesome city with a cool airport. But I don't understand why they need a second airport. SYD has independent parallel runways, allowing for simultaneous takeoffs and landings. Add in the 3rd cross-field runway, with procedures to "shoot the gap", like they do with intersecting runways at LGA, and SYD essentially has 3 runways which can be used at the same time. Either 2 for landing and one for takeoff, or 2 for takeoff and one for landing.

Is this not the case? Are there severe noise abatement procedures preventing the 3 runways from being used at the same time? Are the controllers a lot more conservative when it comes to spacing? Someone down there please fill me in, because with the exising runway layout it would appear that SYD has more runway capacity than LHR, HKG, and many others.


A simple answer is the residents. When runway 16L/34R opened up for operations back in the mid 90's there was a protest against the way Sydney Airport wanted to operate. The plan was to close runway 07/25 completely & ONLY be used as a taxiway & when the crosswinds are really strong. One runway was to be allocated for Take-offs & the other for Landings.

This is just the beginning!

Due to the protests the NEW runway was to be used during the peak period or when the caps passed 50 movements a hour. Protests continued & the next phase was for any aircraft using either runway 34L or 34R had TOO & still is required to backtrack to the final holding point of each runway (example; B737's in normal operations required to taxi half way down runway 34L). Aircraft that depart runway 34R are required to make a sharp right turn on a heading of 070.

These are just SOME of the many strict rules that have to be followed Sydney Kingsford Smith Airport & is one of the reasons Sydney requires a 2nd airport.

CONJESTION! Congestion is a big problem at Sydney cause it simply has nowhere else to expand. It has land available towards the south of Terminal 2 (Old Ansett Terminal), but its simply not enough!

The CURFEW was lifted at SYD. With no aircraft movements before 6am, except for early morning arrivals on runway 34L. No aircraft movements after 11pm unless with special clearance & depart ONLY towards the South (runway 16R or 16L).

Kingsford made a good point! Build it out in the sea! I would love to see that too!







Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinePositive rate From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 2143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2541 times:

Sydney is a nice city yes but i don't know if i'd call it the best in the world(and yeah i've been there). It's very expensive and it's Australia's largest city- both in terms of size and population but in the grand scheme of things the USA has many many cities the size of of larger than Sydney. One thing i really love about the USA is the amount of large cities they have in each state. Take Texas for example- they have 5 or 6 cities the size of MEL and Syd in 1 state, something i'm in awe of.

User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

Well, SYD is the national hub for overseas flights (particularly those to North & South America) & is the nation's busiest airport, and while traffic should continue to grow at a healthy rate, SYD is just too far South for the airport to compete as a major international hub rivaling that of HKG, SIN, BKK, etc.

Hkg82.


User currently offlineBik From New Zealand, joined Mar 2003, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2450 times:

"The way it should be? Is there currently a rugby match in progress between our two countries? Why should Sydney be "...big but not too big..."?"

Sorry for the confusion, what i meant to say was that Sydney is (in my opinion) just the right size to be perefect. Not too big so you feel like you are overwhelmed with people and size but at the same time not too small as so you feel as you know every secodn person that walks by you.
I love Sydney, its a great city!

Cheers


User currently offlineUA744KSFO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

I'm actually going to be one of the 1000 per week who are moving to Sydney in less than a year (God Willing).  Smile Sydney is my favorite city in the world, and rivals (if not surpasses) cities like NY and London in terms of culture.

While it is true that the location of Australia doesn't place it in the most convenient hub location (according to some), the recent trade agreements between Australia and other countries, as well as the dramatic increase in leisure travel to Australia will increase passenger loads at an already crowded airport.

What I am wondering is whether the proposal to build another airport would be to replace Kingsford-Smith or supplement it. The problem with supplementing it would be that Sydney might not be as attractive as a connecting city (as opposed to MEL, BNE, or AKL) because it would be hard to serve all cities from both airports.

This happened in Milan (where most traffic now goes to MXP) and Paris (where most traffic now goes to CDG). The cities found that two airports made the cities less attractive as connecting destinations, so they moved most traffic to the newer airports. For larger mega-metropoli such as NY, London, or Tokyo, a second international airport can make it, but I don't see this for Sydney (as much as I love it).


User currently offlineSchiller64 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

Having had quite a few projects in MEL / SYD, I'll side w/ Kingsford regarding boosting MEL, especially for international connections. It appears to be working in Germany, w/ MUC taking more and more international flights - in addition to FRA, though, not in lieu of FRA. Not sure about the relative size of passenger volume at MEL compared to SYD, but arent's all the larger carriers (TG, SQ, BA, Quantas, EK, CX) serving MEL direct?

Can somebody shed some light on whether a volume expansion of MEL is possible?


User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3134 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

How do they expect Sydney to handle the traffic flow?? It's called planning. You'll notice that QF has done extensive work on its domestic terminal in recent years. The old Ansett also did as well. There is room at Sydney where the domestic terminals are to build more space if required by moving the business and other aviation facilities. The International terminal has also undergone expansions and refurbishments, the most noteable one for the Olympics, and further additions are possible with additions of gates to the North and West sides of the international terminal if required. Have a look at the Master Plan on Sydney Airports website, its interesting reading.

The allocations of runway use, as I understand it, means that the 3rd runway is used primarily for domestic and regional aircraft, ie 737's etc and the main runway is used for the 747's and most widebodies. Certainly you dont see many widebodies taxiing down to the 3rd runway. Besides which the airport has to have a certain number of planes passing over whichever suburb in the day so they spread them all out. I fell sorry for the Air Traffic Controllers that have to manage it.

In terms of it handling 66 million passengers, the current slot requirements limit Sydney to 80 movements per hour whereas airport capacity is 120 movements per hour. So if there is political will you can expand the capacity by 1/3 using the existing taxiways and runways.

As for Sydneys 2nd airport, any talk of that is now really a mute point. The current airport owners have the right to build the 2nd airport, not the government, and after paying about 5 billion dollars for the existing one I dont think they are eager to invest any more for a while. Besides which the train services are inadequate, the roads need upgrading and the federal government and NSW governments have allowed developments all around the Badgerys airport site. So you are instantly going to have whinging residents. The prospect of the government losing seats in Western Sydney far outweigh the political benefits of building a new airport there.

Really and truly it all comes down to the fact the if the current Sydney Airport was left alone to operate by the politicians then it would be far more efficient and the city wouldn't need a new airport. As it stands it really is a joke with vast noise abatement regulations as the politicians use it as a political football. They dont want to spend the billions necessary to build a new one because of politics and they dont want to allow any more expansion of the existing one due to politics. Were stuffed either way.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2303 times:

Sydscott, I don't think that you could make a point any better than that!

Politics are to blame to Sydney's situation in regards to the operations of Sydney & why Sydney hasn't got a 2nd airport. Had the government selected a better site when they built Sydney Kingsford Smith we wouldn't have the problem we are facing today.

Schiller64, Can somebody shed some light on whether a volume expansion of MEL is possible? Melbourne has a great advantage over Sydney & Brisbane Airport. Reason being that the airport is located out of the city, built in a industrial area & can operate without a curfew. As for expansion, the airport has plenty of room to expand if necessary to do so.



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBeno From Australia, joined Aug 2002, 428 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2266 times:

SYD has no were reached its full operating capacity. In the master plan the Intl terminal is able to be extended well past the cargo aprons. QF will move there maintanace facility to BNE/MEL and Avalon (something thats already happening.) The domestic terminals can be expanded to include the land the QF maintance facility currently is.

SYD will also have to use its 3 runways alot "smarter" than they do today.

Kingsford Smith will continue to be Australias gateway for at least another 20-30 years.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4987 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (10 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

Beno

"Kingsford Smith will continue to be Australian gateway for at least another 20-30 years".

I hope so too! Sydney has got areas where they can expand,but would the public allow Sydney to expand any further? That's the big problem.

I hope Sydney remains as Australia's major gateway.



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
25 High_flyr69 : When MEL was built it was built out in shit creek to allow for increasing traffic and to have open options for 2 new runways (ie 34L/16R and 27L/09R)
26 EK413 : High_flyr69 "When MEL was built it was built out in shit creek to allow for increasing traffic and to have open options for 2 new runways (ie 34L/16R
27 Post contains links High_flyr69 : EK 413 http://www.rwy34.com/rwys/ http://www.street-directory.com.au/aus_new/index.cgi in the second link you can clearely see the space surrounding t
28 EK413 : Thanks high_flyr69 Greatly appreciated.
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