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Pilot Training  
User currently offlinePat763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 869 times:

Can someone please tell me what I need to do to become a pilot? I have no license to fly even a private pilot. Any info would be great.

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 869 times:

I'm assuming your in the US. First thing is to go to your local airport flight school and ask them for the name of a medical examiner. You need to get a class one physical. This will tell you if your eligable for a position w/ an airline. No class one no job. The best training would be at a 141 approved school such as Flight Safety in Vero Beach Florida. It's more expensive than your local flight school but the training is of a higher standard. It will take you six months to get you private single and multi, commercial multi,and instrument ratings. Then your ready for absolutely nothing. You need more time. So you need to get your flight instructors ticket to gain some time. The hardest thing to get is multi time and that will be your hardest to obtain. Commuters hire w/ a minimum of 1200 Total Time, and 100 multi. When you are finished w/ all your liscences you will have 280 hours and 50 multi. To get in with a major or any descent airline you will need 4 years of college. You have a long and difficult road ahead and it will be expensive. You will feel abused, and aviation will lose alot of it's glamour. But every time I walk out to the plane and climb in the cockppit and I see a kid pointing to the plane with his face pressed up to the fence I remember why I do it. Because It's the coolest F**kin job in the world. You can E-mail me with any more questions if you like. Go for it.

User currently offlineBritish Airways From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 869 times:

I am going to be an airline pilot the reason being I love to fly. But when I am a CFI I class that as being as good as till my time rises. You seemed to put it as being a CFI is a drag and not being to much fun. But I think it will enjoy as flying is involved.
Also you could join the military with 0 hours and after 6 years you will be ready to go to a major airline.
Iain


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 868 times:

Pat763 feel free to e@mail me. I am right now about half-way, two-thirds of the way through my private. I can give you a couple of notes.

I am going to disagree with JETPILOT about one thing. The worst place to get you license is a Part 141 school. They are in the buisness of making money and most of the instructors are former students. This leads to an enviorment where the management is more concerend about you paying in advance and how many people they can squeeze into their airplanes, then about you learning. You also run a big risk of getting a flight instructor who thinks it is your obligation to pay for his/her hour building.

The best place to get you license is to go down to your local small airport and find out who the pilots down there recomend. If you can find somebody who is older and has been teaching on the side you are going to end up with a much better and experienced instructor. The chief pilot of the airline I used to work for told me this and I wish that I had taken his advice. It would have cost me less money and I would have learned a lot more and better, Practical advice. The aviation industry, they only place where those with the least experience teach those without any.

Sorry if it sound like I am dumping on flying. I'm not. It is one of the greatest jobs out there. It is just sad that we have these pilot factories that are all shine and no substanence.

The best piece of advice I can give is that if you want to fly go down to your local airport and find out if they have an Experimental Aircraft Association group that meets or AOPA or any other pilot group that meets and attend some of there meetings. This way you can find out who the really good instructor are out there from those who know. The PILOTS!!!

P.S. If you want to hang around pilots you are going to have to learn how to throw darts and be able to play 301/501.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 868 times:

I didn't mean that in anyway. It's just that when I was done with my liscences I thought the world would be an open door, and my carrer would blossom. We'll it didn't I was depleated of funds and left aviation to go to work in another profession. I returned after 4 years when I went to get a flight engineer certificate, and was hired with 300 hours to fly as a DC8 engineer only to be furloughed 3 months later . I've been waiting 9 months now to return and haven't been called back yet. I don't have enough exprience yet to go to another airline, or the airlines only employ engineers who are A and P's. So here I am again depleted of fundsagain and waiting for a job. The airline industry is ruthless. I don't mean to put you off to it but being at the right place at the right time in aviation is everything. Just because you get a job w/ US Airways doesn't mean that you won't be working at a convenience store ever again. I think last year they had 500 pilots on furlough. Being low on seniority this is part of the territory. I know of 15 Captains who left our airline to go to another due to their claim of poor working conditions. 6 months later we bought that airline and fired every one of them. These are guys who are qualified on the DC8, where are they going to go now. They won't fly in Miami any more. The airline industry is a very small community. If you burn your bridges here your done for. This is my story and may not be typical. The air can get pretty turbulent. I'm still fairly young. 28. So I hope things smoothout for me, and I hope your experiences are better.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 868 times:

Your message about working for the airlines should be required reading. Actually it is pretty typical for what I have seen.

This is exactly the reason why I can't stand they way these 141 schools sell themselves to these kids and their parents. And after working for both airlines and Army Aviation I am amazed at what people tell prospective pilots about what it is like out there.

If you want to be a pilot for pete's sake make sure you have a backup career or training to cover you.




OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJETPILOT From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3130 posts, RR: 29
Reply 6, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 870 times:

WOW Nelly!!! You just blacklisted every 141 school out there. As in everything in life there are the good and there are the bad. Generalizations suck. And that on was sucky sucky sucky. Flight Safety is in the airline training business. I think over 250 airlines train with them. When Asiana airlines started up in 1990 They sent all there ab initio students there to do there training. About 100. They were first officers on 747's w/400 hours TT. When Swissair wanted to train there ab Initio students they sent them there. All that 141 means is that there is an FAA approved training syllabus. This syllabus allows you to get yout liscence in less time than if you were in apart 61 school. There are good and bad instructors at every flight school.You are free to change. When it was time to do my training I didn't go with the second or third best I went #1. You aren't in the position to give advice because you have no other experiences by which you can judge your own. There are things that Flight safety offers that other schools don't. Such as loft training. I'm sure you haven't heard of this since it's an airline term. Line Oriented Flight Training. You are paired w another student at the begining of your training. You go throught training together and fly as a crew in the later stages learning CRM . You fly the flights according to time scheduals and expected to have on time arrivals, and departures. And at a 141 school everthing is standardized. The instructors are students who have finished the program. This is a good thing. Only the best of each class are chosen to work there. and Are put through tough standardization programs so everyone teaches the same way. How long did your flight school know your instructor before they hired him.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29786 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (15 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 868 times:

Yes I did!!!

I know I probably have really gotten on Uberili's bad side. If not with my post then with my almost certain misspelling of his name. I hope he excepts my appologies but I am trying to be practical here. I think we need to make a difference between Basic flight training and recurrent type specific training. And we also need to make a distinction between the average joe on the street and a Mult-Billion dollar airline who can take a multi-million dollar training contract and send it somewhere else if they aren't happy.. Somehow money has the fascinating ability to attract attention. My comments are not directed at any particlar school but at the way the system is set up in general and the way it works. In reality my complaint is with the FAA.

You said, "You aren't in the position to give advice because you have no other experiences by which you can judge your own". From this statement I can tell that you don't know anything about my experiences. Let me explain my experinces. for you. During my stint in the US Army I was assigned to aviation units and spent two years working around various fixed and rotor winged aircraft. From the U-12 to the AH-64. After I left the service I worked for a couple of airlines back home before deciding to take the plunge and learn how to fly. I selected out a college with a very good reputation for their aviation program. I also took the oportunity to talk with several of the pilot both with the airline I worked for and the other 135 carrier that was at the airport. One piece of advice I recieve from a very senior pilot at our airline was to take my lessons from somebody that tought pilots during the war. Unfortunatly I wrote that advice off because the war was forty years ago and most of them have retired or passed on.

Basicly it isn't you place to question my experience no more then it is to question yours.

{There are good and bad instructors at every flight school}

True. I consider the first flight instructor that I had to be the best. I felt comfertable with him and he was a very good teacher. My second one was a piece of work. Although he did know how to fly an airplane I never felt at ease flying with him. He also did some procedure different then my other instructor and was pretty damming it. At this time I took a break because of money, or the lack thereof. I saw him a couple of time come into the lab on campus where I work said high and let him know how I was doing as far as my flight kity was doing. When I did get up to the point where I had enough to finish I called him to schedual. His response, "OH, I got named as a lead and you had to be dropped from my flight schedual. (Name Withheld) was supposed to find you another instuctor." So after a week of p---ing around with flight schedualing (I should note at this school you don't pick an instructor, One is chosen for you either by schedualing or by you previous instructor, which he didn't do) I finally got a new instructor. He seemed like an alright guy. After flying a couple times with him I finally decided to bag it here. I have no problems with the way the professors teach any of the ground schools but after getting the runaround from the airport people there was no way I was going to spend any more money at a program that does not support their students. I also know that I am not the only on that has had these types of problems. Another student who was here and coincidently had also been a flight follower for a Chinook outfit in the army had his instructor call him one morning and say that she was sick and needed to cancel his flight. Came to find out that she wasn't sick. She wanted to go up with a Multi-Engine student to build here time. It just looks better on those resumes. He left last semester because he wasn't happy with the quality of training he was receiveing either. And we arn't the only two. I'm just glad I came to that conclusion before I spent 50/60 grand.

I also take issue with the standarized step by step appoach. You don't have the problem with weather down in Florida that we do in the northern plains but because of the step by step nature or a 141 program you can't shuffle simular or ground lessons around to days when you are weather held. Also if you do overshoot the schedual you are also fighting the next 200 students that are starting. At least with a 61 lesson if you can't fly you can spend some time in a sim if available or do something else. You don't have to fly extra lessons to make up for what you forgot because you where snowed in for a week straight.

{How long did your flight school know your instructor before they hired him. }

I don't know of any instructor who wheren't hired from the program here. Like I said they use the ability to build hours as selling point. It shouldn't be. You should teach because you want to teach. Not as a career step. Unfortunaly for a lot of CFI that is the only reason they are teaching. And I think that brings down the quality of pilots.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
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