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AF And KLM Merging! BRU's Future?  
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

I am curious about the future role of Brussels airport.
As a secundary european airport right in between Paris and Amsterdam I
sincerely hope it will not be swallowed by the two major hubs that CDG and AMS are. Is there any growing potential for BRU keeping in mind that there's also a high-speed train infrastructure in construction(partly finished) between between AMS-BRU-CDG.


16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3470 times:

My mistake,
I'm new on the forum.
I should be a bit more specific.
What I mean is with the future merging of AF and KL.
Will there be any business left for BRU and SNBA


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

That would be extremely bad for your health, huh, JW, after the shock of KL/AF the shock of CDG-AMS!  Nuts

It's indeed a problem that BRU is currently encountering: due to the Thalys fast speed link with CDG, a lot of people are currently transferring in CDG. Within a few years, there will be a simillar high speed link with AMS, so the same will normally happen over there.

SN Brussels has recently launched the same, but in the other direction: they let passengers board in Paris Nord, and the Thalys stops in BRU Airport.

Anyway, I'm sure that BRU will keep on attracting passengers (the volume CDG and AMS have is of course impossible), but BRU sure will play a role in the future.

We don't have much non-Belgian long haul flights, but the ones serving BRU (AA/CO/UA/DL/...) seem to be happy. AA will add a new frequency between BRU and JFK, and who knows what BIAC has in the pipeline?

Future will tell...

Only 50% of the capacity BRU airport offers is currently used, an expansion would be great of course.

We have quite a lot of action groups who want a reduction of flights from BRU (especially nightflights), some politicians even ask the closure of the airport (duh). Several cargo airlines are currently threatening to leave BRU, I hope that for once those noice protestors will use their head.

DHL wants to expand (up to 20000 additional jobs), the noise protestors are against this expansion. Maybe they will ever get some economic sense?

Frederic


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

You don't have to be afraid about the future of Zaventem. Brussels is the EU capital. European Committee need the airport for politicians, diplomats and commissioners across Europe. NATO headquarters is also there. Zaventem is an essential airport.

Question: Do people transfering between AMS and CHG by train? That doesn't make sense to me. Even if the high speed connection is finished it still takes 3 hours travel time and from Brussels 1,5 hour. Besides (I`m not sure) this train doesn't stop at BRU. BTW it is an expensive way to transfer.
Can someone explain this to me?





I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3189 times:

x There are currently no transfers between AMS and CDG by Thalys (simply because the Thalys isn't able yet to drive at full speed between Brussels and AMS). Take note that around 2007?, the Thalys will be able to go at maximum speed between both cities, so I wouldn't be surprised to see KL stop flying between BRU and AMS

x The fact that a high-speed link will be available between Brussels and AMS, and due to the fact that this high-speed link already exists between CDG and BRU, passengers will be able to go quite fast with the train from CDG to AMS (in about 3h, slightly more I think)

x All trains currently stop in Brussels-North where all Thalys trains stop. There is only one exception: one of the morning-trains from Paris to Brussels stops in BRU Airport, because SN Brussels pax are on board of this train.

Regards
Frederic


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Where I write Brussels-North, I mean of course Brussels-South... Sorry for that!

Frederic


User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

I still don't get it. This way of transferring is awful. Even if the travel time between the 2 airports is 3 hours it's an expensive and impractical way of transferring. I just can't imagine that travelers will make use of this option.
With BRU I meant the airport. Of course it will stop somewhere in Brussels.  Big grin



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4420 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

Don't forget that KLM is a member of the consortium which will operate the Thalys in The Netherlands. Given the fact that KLM axed Antwerp in favor of the train I wouldn't be suprised if KLM indeed stops flying to Brussels.

We have quite a lot of action groups who want a reduction of flights from BRU (especially nightflights), some politicians even ask the closure of the airport (duh). Several cargo airlines are currently threatening to leave BRU, I hope that for once those noice protestors will use their head.

Welcome to the club of airports with action groups (at AMS they're very used to them). However I agree the BRU story is somewhat different (a little bit more "not in my backyard" politics involved than in AMS).

BTW aren't there enough slots available to accomodate the DHL increase (if ever)? I can recall that BRU has an ocean of night slots unutilised (which is the reason why BRU is so popular with airlines like Eva and SQ)

Where I write Brussels-North, I mean of course Brussels-South... Sorry for that!

Or better Brussels Midi as some may think that the Thalys goes to Charleroi airport to provide connections on Ryanair



User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

So, if CDG and AMS merge, will one of them close up shop and move its terminals to the other's location? Or will they just pave some really long taxiways over everything in between? Or perhaps it would be easier to just consolidate the two whole cities somewhere around the present location of Brussels. Just imagine the Manneken Pis standing under the Eiffel Tower, doing his business into a canal. Lovely.  Big grin

But seriously, I don't think BRU is going anywhere. Even if it is overshadowed by the major hubs at CDG and AMS, there will always be plenty of demand for air service to and from Brussels itself, without the hassle of a train transfer.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3026 times:

yes, were that to happen AMS would most likely close. CDG would never agree to closing in favour of AMS and we all know who's boss in Europe.
With the Thalys link between Amsterdam and Paris via Brussels complete in 2007, there will be no more reason to keep flying even to feed CDG from AMS.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineKLMCedric From Belgium, joined Dec 2003, 812 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

It looks like SNBA eventually will end up in the Oneworld alliance. Personally I
think it would be better for them to join Skyteam.
Any expert comments on this one?


User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 547 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

As of right now the time between Amsterdam and Paris via the Thalys stands at about 3h45 to 4h. Following the conclusion of construction between Amsterdam and Brussels, I would anticipate times of 2h30 between Amsterdam and Paris. Currently the train makes several stops in the Netherlands including Amsterdam Centraal, Amsterdam Schipol, Rotterdam Centraal.

jbmitt


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2857 times:

yes, were that to happen AMS would most likely close. CDG would never agree to closing in favour of AMS and we all know who's boss in Europe.

Yes, and all the other European countries are the slaves of France  Nuts Once again, it must hurt for you... you hated the French already for such a long time, and now you see your nationalistic pride being taken over by... AF! Although I find it sad that the oldest airline worldwide is in the process of being taken over, I can show no respect at all for your arrogance towards other nations, in this case the French.

With the Thalys link between Amsterdam and Paris via Brussels complete in 2007, there will be no more reason to keep flying even to feed CDG from AMS.

Exactly, and all those passengers who were offered a direct flight from AMS on KL will now have to fly via CDG to feed AF flights  Nuts Get real: the profitable destinations will be kept, the loss-making services will maybe go via CDG?? Loss-making routes wouldn't be kept by KL anyway, and the fact that they will merge with AF, only indicates that they could not survive on their own (maybe you will thank the French one day that you can keep a big and PROFITABLE airline at AMS).

The flighttime of the current AMS-CDG flights will be about the same as the time you need for a CDG-AMS flight (inclusive check-in). It would really surprise me if all services between both hubs would be suspended. They will probably go to the system that LH has on their domestic flights: flights will be kept at peak-hours (morning - evening + some in the middle), and additionally they will hire capacity at the Thalys trains.

Frederic


User currently offlineAirtrainer From Belgium, joined Aug 2003, 1557 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2816 times:

Call me stupid but I think the construction of the new ATC tower is a good sign for BRU's future  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
Be well

jef



Life is short : eat dessert first !
User currently offlineAirGabon From Switzerland, joined Dec 2003, 881 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 2779 times:

Sabena690:
"all the other European countries are the slaves of France"
" I can show no respect at all for your arrogance towards other nations, in this case the French."

Are you serious?
Do you think Mr Spinetta (chairman of AF) is an arrogant person?? He is a very discreet and modest person.
In this case (merger AF/KL) AF has always respected KL, and as you know, KL will always exist and keep its characteristic and identity.

French are not more arrogant than British or other European countries.


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 2648 times:

AirGabon, NO!!!!! Totally not, I know JWenting from other posts, and know how this guy thinks about this world.

I was defending the French... My first sentence was sarcastic, from there the  Nuts after it.

Frederic


User currently offlineFlying lsd From Belgium, joined Feb 2001, 291 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 2536 times:

IF AF wants really transport a lot of people from BRu thru the Thalys AF must open a full check-in desk at the Brussels Station for TICKET and LUGGAGE.
Actually, you receive your boarding pass in Brussels but you keep your luggage.Not very easy and what about a big "rupture de charge"

BRU is just between CDG and AMS , a very good^place for a oneworld HUB!


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