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Winglets - WN -vs- ATA  
User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 35
Posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2901 times:


A co-worker and I have a debate going. WN's winglets are 8 ft in height and my co-worker was told by a ATA 757 pilot that the ATA 737-800's winglets are not nearly as tall as ours! Now, looking at pics of ATA's 737's I say they are the same height, he says they are not even after looking at the pics. Because the ATA pilot told him they are shorter he refuses to believe me. Who is right here?
Can somebody settle this friendly little debate?  Smile

Luv,

SWA TPA


I believe I can fly.....
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3175 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2824 times:
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Actually, I believe the ATA pilot is right. WN's winglets are 8' wh ile ATA's are 6'

JBLU


User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2053 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

First time I have heard of 2 sizes. Anyone else confirm either way?


` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2682 times:

And, as we all know, size does matter.......

User currently offlineWmupilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 1473 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2631 times:

From what i've heard aswell WN's winglets are higher by 2'. I'll ask one of the 738 pilots when I see him next


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User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6709 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2613 times:


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Photo © Jay Piboontum



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Photo © Sam Chui
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Photo © Jay Piboontum



No obvious diff, unless Southwest's wings are less bent?


User currently offlineEI A330-200 From Sweden, joined Apr 2001, 409 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Maybe its just me, but I like the looks of the winglets on the 747, A330, A340 much better than those on the 737. They just look dopey(SP?). They others seem more in proportion. Also, I thought that winglets only made plane more efficient over long distances. Is this true? If so, why equip a 737 with them?

Brian
Aer Lingus Rocks



Long live Aer Lingus, the Flying Shamrock!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

...especially when aerodynamics are concerned.

My understanding is that the aviation partners blended winglets are six feet, while Boeing's in house winglets are eight. ATA did Aviation Partners, while WN ordered theirs from Boeing.


User currently offlineKGAI From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

My understanding is that the aviation partners blended winglets are six feet, while Boeing's in house winglets are eight. ATA did Aviation Partners, while WN ordered theirs from Boeing.

But I thought Boeing's in house winglets *are* Aviation Partners'?

Also, I thought that winglets only made plane more efficient over long distances. Is this true? If so, why equip a 737 with them?

That's true, the winglets make the plane about 5% more efficient. But at shorter routes the added weight offsets the aerodynamic efficiency.

IIRC Southwest did indeed order the winglets for longer routes? In any case the winglets also improve takeoff performance.


User currently offlineBlatantEcho From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1896 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

what? difference size winglets?
Never heard of that at all. Considering the testing that had to be done for the AP winglets on the -800, then -700, and then -300, I think we would have heard if they were different sizes.

Now, Aviation Partners was testing a winglet for the 742, and that winglet looked the same, but was 8' or so iirc, but I've never heard anything about the 737 winglets being different sizes.

George



They're not handing trophies out today
User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

FYI.. Aviation Partners is also producing WNs winglets.


Southwest Airlines Boeing 737-700 Fleet Takes Wing With Sleek New Look


- Aviation Partners Boeing to Provide 169 Blended Winglets Shipsets - Boeing Offers Blended Winglets on In-Production 737-700s

LEBOURGET, France, June 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV), one of the world's most successful airlines, will add performance-enhancing Blended Winglets to its current and future fleet of Boeing (NYSE: BA) 737-700s.

The visually distinctive winglets improve performance by extending the airplane's range, saving fuel, lowering engine maintenance costs and reducing takeoff noise.

"Southwest, the industry's low-cost provider, is keen on finding innovative ways to keep our operating costs in check so we can continue to provide low fares to millions more Americans," said Laura Wright, Southwest's vice president of Finance. "This technology is one way we can gain efficiencies in our operation and save money while we grow."

Aviation Partners Boeing, a joint venture between Aviation Partners Inc. and Boeing, will provide 169 Blended Winglet shipsets to Southwest. It is the single largest sale for the venture since its creation. The first Blended Winglet installation for Southwest is expected to begin October 2003 with all 169 installations to be completed within two years. Southwest has options to acquire 373 additional Blended Winglets through 2012. For an image of the winglets on the Southwest livery, go to http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/0306_blended_winglets.html




User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2496 times:


Unlike traditional winglets that attach at abrupt angles to the wing, Blended Winglets gently curve out and up from the wingtip, reducing aerodynamic drag and increasing performance. The 8-foot high winglets add about 5 feet (1.5 meters) to the airplane's total wingspan and allow the 737-700 to fly up to 115 nautical miles (213 kilometers) farther and reduce fuel burn. As a result, Southwest is expected to save an average of up to 92,000 gallons (348,258 liters) of jet fuel per airplane per year. Improved performance will permit payload increases out of high, hot and obstacle- limited airports, as well as shorten the time its takes to climb to cruising altitude.

Besides improving range and fuel savings, winglets offer excellent environmental benefits including reduced noise and emissions.

More than 28 carriers currently fly nearly 300 737s equipped with winglets.

Southwest Airlines, the fourth largest domestic carrier in terms of customers boarded, serves 59 airports in 58 cities and 30 states. Based in Dallas, Southwest operates nearly 2,800 flights a day with an all-Boeing fleet of 378 737s that, with an average age of nine years, is one of the youngest pure jet fleets in the domestic airline industry.

To learn more about Aviation Partners Boeing's Blended Winglet Technology see www.aviationpartnersboeing.com . Visit the 737 web site at http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/flash.html to learn more about the popular single-aisle jetliner.



User currently offlineSyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2015 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2495 times:
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Could it have to do with the fact that ATA's are on -800's and SWA's are on -700's?

Deltaffindfw: I *think* all the 737 winglets are made by Aviation Partners Boeing.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 11853 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2495 times:
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Maybe WN's Winglets are bigger because they are fitted onto a -700 series and ATA's are smaller because they are fitted to the bigger -800 series?

User currently offlineSWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 35
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2428 times:


Ha Ha! Found it!
All the info you ever wanted to know about winglets! They are all 8 ft high on all 737 models. BTW did you know all next generation 737's share the same wingspan? I did'nt know that. Interesting. Learned it from the following link.
Enjoy!  Smile

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/pf/pf_winglets.html

Luv,
SWA TPA




I believe I can fly.....
User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2341 times:

That's true, the winglets make the plane about 5% more efficient. But at shorter routes the added weight offsets the aerodynamic efficiency.

This is technicaly true, but keep in mind that the AP winglet kit only increases the weight of the 737NG by 000.26%.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineKGAI From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

"This is technicaly true, but keep in mind that the AP winglet kit only increases the weight of the 737NG by 000.26%."

Yah, I always thought it was weird why ALL the airlines don't upgrade with winglets. I don't see other downside except maybe the slightly bigger wingspan. Maybe some airlines are just cheap


User currently offlineSWAbubba From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 154 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

KGAI- the downside is the cost. While WN has the money to invest on something that may not pay for itself for several years, most airlines do not. I heard that the deciding factor for WN was the price, supposedly we got quite a good deal on them due to the large quantity.

User currently offlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3175 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2147 times:
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Im not arguing, but Im still not sure as I remember reading that ATA's were 6'. But the winglets definately come in atleast two sizes, as Hapag Lloyd's 737-800s are 8' winglets where as BBJ -700s are 8.5'

JBLU


User currently offlineATAManIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

ATA's winglets are 8' as well. Checked and verified by the experts who would know here at ATA.

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