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Alliance Air Question  
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1669 times:


After carefully studying the latest IC/CD schedule I find atleast 2 flights ex-IXL, one to IXC, and another bi-weekly to SXR without any corresponding flights back to base at DEL. The other flights ex-IXL fit correctly.

Actual routing:
(Flight #;From;To;Dep;Arr;Stops;Aircraft;Frequency)

CD7431-DEL-IXL-0640-0755-0-737-2,4,6,7
CD7430-IXL-SXR-0840-0940-0-737-4,7
CD7429-SXR-IXL-1015-1100-0-737-4,7
CD7432-IXL-DEL-1155-1310-0-737-2,4,6,7
CD7134-DEL-BHO-1600-1710-0-737-Daily
And so on…

But the schedule ex-IXL also lists another set of flights without any corresponding link flights.

CD7484-IXL-IXC-0840-0935-0-737-3
CD7483-IXC-IXL-1005-1100-0-737-3
CD7426-IXL-IXJ-0840-0940-0-737-1,2,5,6
CD7425-IXJ-IXL-1010-1110-0-737-1,2,5,6

Now if CD7431/2 were daily, then the above schedule would make sense. But the CRS also confirms that CD7431/2 is only operational on 2,4,6,7.

So either CD is operating some kind of military charters to IXL on 1,3,5 or is keeping an aircraft stationed at IXL. Anybody knows what’s happening here?

Also can anybody confirm if all the 737-200’s are in CD colors? Someone mentioned the other day that atleast 2 of the 737’s flying for CD are still in IC’s old colors. How may are there in total now? All 11 still operational?

Finally are the 737’s under some kind of restriction regarding hours flown per day or some such?

Saw one of these 737’s at BOM last week just as it was being prepared for departure to VAD. It must have been something like 30 years old and looked like it would fall apart any second! High time these were sent to the scrap heap!

-Roy



19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1645 times:

Regarding the 737-2A8 that Alliance Air uses...I flew on one from Mumbai to Jamnagar a few years back and walking out to the tarmac at BOM, I was appalled to find that cable between the cabin and the tail flapping around in the wind. I can't recall ever seeing these on any 737's in the US or EU. Are any of these type of 737's still hanging-around in the west? I agree...the a/c looked like it would fall apart. During take-off and landing it seemed that just about everything in the plane shook like an earthquake.

Interesting, if you do a google search for 737-2A8, there are a lot of webpages that mention "Indian Airlines, Fatalities, Accident Report." My uncle told me that IC took all of these a/c and put them in CD livery because if there were to be a crash in the future, it would be in the Alliance Air tally box, not Indian Airlines. Is this true or more urban legend?



You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offline707437 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Sorry to drift off topic. . .

I've flown on these 732 many times since the late 70s and finally in 1998 I was on an Alliance air FLT from DEL-LKO and had enough. The interior and exterior of the plane seemed to be coming apart. Even with all the fond memories of those jets I now avoid them like a bad disease. Back in 1970s it was great to have jet service to LKO but this jet had seen better days.

There are so many fine planes in good condition in the Mojave desert to be had for next to nothing it makes me wonder why these 732s have not yet been retired. The must be a great buyer's market for 732 spares. . .

These aircraft had been abused from day one and it is a credit to Boeing that even Alliance can keep them flying (most of the time).


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

That part is certainly urban legend! The transfer of the 737's to IC was done to ensure that pilots coming back to IC from could be employed on contrat at much lowert rates than in mainline IC.

Also there was lot of scoppe for creative accounting to take off a lot of losses by transferring the 737s to CD.

-Roy


User currently offlineMog From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1616 times:

As on date there are atleast 3 colour schemes going for the 11 B-737-200 that vest with Alliance Air (CD).

a) Indian Airline colours.
b) Alliance Air colours.
c) Alliance Air colours with wierd rear diagonal slash.

It is my theory that the complete Alliance Air fleet hangs around DEL as a sort of hot spare facility for the 2 VVIP Boeing 737-200 with the IAF for VVIP flights. I may be mistaken since I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief, but I think I did see an Alliance Air tail getting repainted on to one of the IAF Boeings once.

I used to be a weekly passenger on their DEL-PNQ-DEL sector till about 2 years ago, even had my own seat (11-F outbound and 11-A return), but gave up on it when I started seeing the wrinkles on the skin.

The last one that crashed was VT-EGD, and details on VT-EGE onwards can be found on the Indian Airlines website.

As for researching the IC schedules, forget it. These are secrets!!



User currently offline707437 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 152 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

The cable between the fuselage and the tail flapping the breeze is no big concern its just an antennae not a structural part. I believe it is for an older type of backup VHF type radio. This type of antennae is normally not used on jets. It is more likely to be seen on a B-17 bomber or something that vintage.

737-200 series aircraft are in still in use in North America Delta, USAir and a few others still have them but they are being retired. At this time Delta operates 732s, 733s and 738s. USAir has 732s and 733s or 734s.

The age of a plane does not matter. . . The maintenance does look at NWs DC-9s the 38 yr old antiques are still going strong. . .


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

I may be mistaken since I was rubbing my eyes in disbelief, but I think I did see an Alliance Air tail getting repainted on to one of the IAF Boeings once.

I think you may be correct about this as I have heard this from another source too. I believe this was done as a security measure so as to not make the IAF VIP 737s easily distinguishable.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Actually I quite enjoyed my own flight from COK-BLR way back in 1998. I was quite scared actually especially after I saw something that looked like duct tape was all around the rear horizontal stabilizers!

You flew DEL-PNQ on Alliance? AFAIK, the evening IC849/850 is an A320 and always has been, and so is the morning IC687/688. When was this exactly?

-Roy


User currently offlineMog From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1589 times:

Indian Airlines went and replaced the evening A320 service with the B737, & numbered it as IC-CD 7849/7850 towards mid-2001, and reverted back to A-320 as IC849/850 mid-2003. Ad interim, Air Sahara and Jet Airways grabbed the market with newer B-737-700/800 aircraft on the same route.

Now Air Sahara runs the CRJ twice a day, and Indian Airlines is likely to get my business back for the evening flights.

The morning IC flight is via BOM and is usually late every sector, since it waits at BOM for pax bound for PNQ from half-a-dozen other sectors.


User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

The last one that crashed was VT-EGD

It may be interesting to note that of the 8 B737 hull losses that IC/CD have suffered in over 30 years, none were directly attributable to the airplane or to maintenance (except one which is doubtful - VT-EAL 17DEC78). So these planes have indeed rendered yeoman service. My last flight on one of these was in 2002 when travelling DEL/MAA. The IC 320 had a technical and the creeping delay to the 1900hrs departure finally resulted in the passengers being put on board a CD 732 at 2330hrs and being flown to MAA. Cabin was incredibly noisy, but it brought back nostalgic memories of my childhood flights. The 732s are not allowed to fly higher than FL240/250 to prevent any excess stress on the structure.

I love them and will surely miss them when they take their last bow.

Coming back to the Alliance color schemes, I wonder if any of you recall some B732s which IC had leased in 1987 or 1988. Three of these VT-EQH/EQI/EQJ were ex Frontier airplanes and had a color scheme shown below with the orange tail and IAC logo.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



A fourth B732 - VT-EQG had a golden sash going over the aft fuselage. They all looked great and flew with IC for about a year +/- a few months.

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineMog From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1523 times:

Thats interesting, the Frontier charter ins, was this around the time when the A320 were expected or when they were grounded?

Must be cold in Pindi . . .



User currently offlineVimanav From India, joined Jul 2003, 1516 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1494 times:

This was just during that time when the A320s were coming in.. I think they may have overlapped. It was however not during the 320 grounding.

I'm in Pindi Monday morning.. I've been warned to pack tons of woollens. More details in the post tour trip reports. Smile

rgds//Vimanav



Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Apparently Old aircraft are not the only thing that make CD unsafe.

Todays ToI reports that an Alliance pilot reported for duty totally drunk on New Years Day! The flight in questio was the morning flight from MAA to CCU via HYD,BBI and VTZ.

He got through CD's own pre-flight medical and was only caught by a DGCA team conducting surprise pre-flight checks on all carriers!

-Roy


User currently offlineB777337 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

I flew by CD B737 on BOM-JDH-BOM sector in Nov-Dec. They were in a better condition than what they were three years back. They even had new seats. The aircrafts were VT-EHF on BOM-JDH sector and VT-EGG on JDH-BOM,

User currently offlineSM777 From India, joined Nov 2003, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1412 times:


CD's 732s use three c/s currently -

1. The 'old' Alliance Air scheme
2. The 'new' Alliance Air scheme with the blue bottom (!)
3. IC colors with a "operated by Alliance Air" sticker

I know of 3 acft still in the IC colors, one of them is VT-EHG which is (probably) based out of CCU. I spotted 2 CD 732s in IC colors in BOM last week but I don't recall the regns. now....

Flying in these is quite scary. I've given up on CD, now that either 9W or S2 fly to most of the far flung places which was the sole prerogative of IC/CD till recently. And if Jet/Sahara don't cover the town, there's always a train !!

.


User currently offlineMog From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

I would like to send a long distance salute to DGCA for catching a drunk Alliance Air co-pilot. One more reason I gave up flying Alliance Air on Indian Airlines routes was because the pilots, typically, had very cowboy kind of attitudes. Not just towards flying, of which I am not the best judge, but towards passengers, announcements, and even the way they wore their uniforms.

Arrogant bunch, I hope they take this co-pilot's licence away, and teach the rest a thing or two.


User currently offlineB777337 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

I happened to see one CD B737 in IC colors on the morning of Nov 30th. 2003. I am not able to recall the regn.

User currently offlineSM777 From India, joined Nov 2003, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 1384 times:


I have a picture of a CD 737 (in IC colors) VT-EHG, taken at CCU in November 2003.

Anyone interested can Email me (sm_777@yahoo.com) for a copy, as also for some other pix of 9W's 739 (VT-JGD), 737 (VT-JNT), 738 (VT-JNZ) and ATR72 (VT-JCA). Also available some pix of IC's A320 (two wheel main undercarriage VT-EYC) and some of Sahara / Air India too....



User currently offlineB777337 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1345 times:

I would like to send a long distance salute to DGCA for catching a drunk Alliance Air co-pilot. One more reason I gave up flying Alliance Air on Indian Airlines routes was because the pilots, typically, had very cowboy kind of attitudes. Not just towards flying, of which I am not the best judge, but towards passengers, announcements, and even the way they wore their uniforms.

I have seen this kind cowboy attitude amongst their pilot. I was in the cockpit on DEL-JAI-JDH flight. While landing at JDH, the F/O landed after nearly half the runway and had to apply full brakes at the end of the runway. I wonder what would have happened if this had happened at an airport with a shorter rwy.


User currently offlineIndianguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1304 times:

All carriers have their fair share of cowboy pilots as you put it. Some time in Dec wasnt action initiated against a 9W pilot too. He was just 22 years old! A total bachcha!


But coming on the job drunk is abs. unforgivable.


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