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Rumors from Airbus to launch a new program: A305  
User currently offlineAZMD80 From Italy, joined Nov 2003, 290 posts, RR: 0
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16007 times:

Today I've red on JP4, an Italian aviation Magazine, That There are rumors from Airbus to launch a new program called A305, to replace A310 and A300.

What's about?

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyingColours From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2315 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15704 times:

My Guess is it would be an A330 shortened to the half-way length of the A300 - A310. But at the minute I doubt they would bother building one. Take the rumors with a pinch of salt.

Phil
FlyingColours

- Strictly Airbus



Lifes a train racing towards you, now you can either run away or grab a chair & a beer and watch it come - Phil
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15642 times:

So it will be another rehashing of a 1970's A300 airframe.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15623 times:

So it will be another rehashing of a 1970's A300 airframe

Yeah, just like Boring (sorry, Boeing) have been rehashing 1960s 737 and 747 airframes for the last fifteen years or more!

Andy


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15593 times:

Ahhh Skymonster....You get my point  Big thumbs up


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15515 times:

They are going to be occupied with the A380. Airbus does claim to be able to do two clean-sheet simulatneously. Also, The Pentagon here in the US claims to be able to fight two major regional war's simultaneously. In both cases, it may be MARGINALLY possible by using every resource, working people to death, and spending far more than can be really afforded. For all intents and purposes, the claim is just bluster. It can be done on paper, by the skin of one's teath. But it can't really be done in the real world - at least it can't be done in a way that does not invite disaster.

User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15469 times:

Also, The Pentagon here in the US claims to be able to fight two major regional war's simultaneously. In both cases, it may be MARGINALLY possible by using every resource, working people to death, and spending far more than can be really afforded

The US used to be able to do that, then Clinton cut the military circa 1992.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5998 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15458 times:

If they were going to do one, it would be a direct replacement for the A300, who isn't the youngest bird around, ie. a type to do short high-density flights. And of course with a cockpit ala the A320 for even more commonality.

I guess we'll see once the A380 is flying.


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15380 times:

Not sure how occupied the design/development teams at Airbus are still busy with the A380 - after all, it's already being built!

So while they might not be able to pour a lot of money into the project, they most likely will be working on this project - after all, this is definitely the area that Airbus needs to work on next.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineN6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15183 times:

What market would the A305 compete in? Against what offering from Boeing would it be targeted?



User currently offlineTom_eddf From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15130 times:

I guess it will be targeted against the 7E7...

User currently offlineUnited4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 291 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15109 times:

I know Airbus have a lot on their hands at the moment with the A380, but just how much development would the 'A305' take?

Surely most of the 'A305' would already be there from the A330 and the A300/10 - a bit like creating the A340NG?

Mike


User currently offlineTom_eddf From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15061 times:

First rumors about an upcoming A305 project have been around since at least a year, but apparently Airbus sees no real gap between the A321 and the A330-200 and perceives the 7E7 not as a product in the A300-600, but in the 757/767-300ER market segment.

http://www.ainonline.com/Publications/paris/paris_03/pd1airbuspg42.html


User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1619 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15027 times:

The A380 is moving from paper (or should I say binary!) into metal in Toulouse right now.

With the lead times on design to construction, now would be about the right time to launch a new programme.

I'm taking it with a pinch of salt however  Smile

What kind of capacity would a A305 have, and would this not compete with the A321 - or would it be designed with more range?


User currently offlineSteman From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 1385 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14938 times:

Boeing has just revealed that there will be a new variant of the 7E7 aimed at short/medium haul sectors, with shortened wingspan, lightened undercarriage and structure, range of about 6500Km.
It looks like a good replacement for hundreds of B767-200/300 and A310/300.
Airbus should better be ready to counter this threat from Boeing

Ciao

Stefano


User currently offlineLeskova From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 6075 posts, RR: 70
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 14895 times:

I wouldn't see an A305 as competing with the A321 - the B757 and B767(-200) ran alongside each other for quite a while, and there's not really that much difference in capacity on these two.

It would simply be the adding of another choice - and I'd guess that the A305 would only in it's smallest version (replacement for A310) really be a possible competition for the A321.

But, then again, it'll be up to the airlines: the A321 will remain more interesting for those already operating the A320 family, whereas the A305 - should it become a reality - would probably be more interesting for those needing A300/A310/B767 replacements for shorter or medium routes.



Smile - it confuses people!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 14516 times:

For a long time I´ve thought this is the most attractive market for Boeing.
Even when they were still dreaming Sonic cruiser. http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/773211

The market potential for an efficient short/medium range people mover are so much better then for another A332 ...

Via the very long haul SC and the long haul dreamliner to a reduced range version Boeing has finaly arrived where the airlines want it.

Took them a few years to adopt ..


User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2260 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14377 times:

Not even mighty EADS can afford another project right now. They already have two separate $8-12B projects underway, the 380 and the A400M. The lion's share of the 380 bills come due in 2004 and 2005, just when we'll see the dollar go streaking past the 1.35-1.40 mark, the very mark Camus says will pose very significant fiscal challenges for the company. Even though European sharehiolders don't expect financial returns for 10-20 years, I'm pretty sure even they would be a little hesitant to allw EADS to push a thrid major project through. My guess is that Airbus will see moderate to substantial losses over the next few years as bills come in and the value of the dollar plummets. At that point we'll some real battles erupt between France SA and private institutional shareholders such as Deustche Bank over financial obligations to the shareholders.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14273 times:

I think people are forgetting that different teams usher a plane through.

The A380 is being built. Not being designed. The design teams can now start working a new design, even a clean sheet one if they decide that's best for the A305.

Richard28 is right. Just about now is the right time to start working on it.

N


User currently offlineDelta-flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2676 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 14081 times:

You guys underestimate the design effort required to complete an aircraft. I suspect that right now the design team is working with suppliers qualifying the various hardware that comprise the aircraft systems, then they will be busy making modifications as the certification phase gets under way.

Pete


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13886 times:

What if Airbus just shortened the A330, to a "-100" series? The production line is already in place, thus cutting costs.


"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13779 times:

Think of the A305 as essentially an A300B4-600R with an A330 tail, A330 cockpit, an all-new wing that is lighter and more aerodynamic, and more efficient jet engines.

Unfortunately, it probably won't fly until at least 2010, two years after the Boeing 7E7 enters service.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13722 times:

I'd bet that an A305 would really be an A300-600 with a possibly slightly improved wing, systems, but most importantly, a common sidestick cockpit.

Not a massive development project. And it'll be an aircraft that doesn't require "jumbo" gates, which the 330's wing precludes.

Steve


User currently offlineMIAMIx707 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13656 times:

Yeah, just like Boring (sorry, Boeing)...

aren't crew people supposed to say slightly more meaninful things? I'm not sure if I should laugh or what lol If anything I always understood and agree that Airbus would take the trophy anyday for the most boring models. They can stretch/shrink add big engines and all the winglets they want everytime I look at an airbus I still see basically a remodeled A320,A300.

Even the 380 resembles an A320 with 4 engine & 2 decks. Watch this A305 will look like another A320 or A330..


User currently offlineQantasA332 From Australia, joined Dec 2003, 1500 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 13632 times:

I'm not sure if I should laugh or what lol...

Seems like you just solved that dilemma yourself...  Smile

qantasA332


25 Post contains images Rjpieces : MiamiX, no...This new Airbus plane would probably be the model for which ALL future Airbus planes will look like
26 AZMD80 : Who can say that "Even the 380 resembles an A320 with 4 engine & 2 decks. Watch this A305 will look like another A320 or A330.." O course the new A305
27 Post contains images Shenzhen : Maybe the A380 design Engineers are now working on the A340-600 modifications This should keep them busy until the A380 modifications are required. Ju
28 ConcordeBoy : What if Airbus just shortened the A330, to a "-100" series? The production line is already in place, thus cutting costs. Airbus has already been there
29 Gigneil : An A300NG might be the perfect ticket. New wings and some fundamental changes could make it quite successful. Dunno if all the compositing that Boeing
30 AZMD80 : I think there could be a large market for 305 or 300NG. In a previous topic, obout widebodies on shoth flight, it seems to me that many airlines use i
31 Post contains images AApilot2b : Sorry AZMD80, but I think you were reading about a car built by Peugeot.
32 Qb001 : Very interesting; I guess Airbus is feeling some heat from the 7E7. My very uninformed guess about this 305: the 310 body to tap into the 200 pax mark
33 Gigneil : I agree that it can't fail. Even if it falls short of the 7E7 by several percentage points in terms of relative efficiency, it should still sell well.
34 Wingman : As I said above, it will be very difficult for Airbus to spend much money in the near term to compete against the 7E7. Rough times ahead, especially i
35 AvObserver : The last two posts ignore one fundamental truth, assuming Airbus merely updates an existing fuselage. The high relative weight of the old design vs. t
36 KGAI : I wonder how Airbus would size the plane. Only A310 size? The market for that 1 size seems very limited. Long range or just medium range like the A310
37 Post contains links and images Bobrayner : I hate to spoil the discussion, but... what is the basis of this rumour? http://news.google.com/news?q=A305 Your search - A305 - did not match any doc
38 Qb001 : The high relative weight of the old design vs. the clean sheet, 50% composite airframe of the 7E7 might well result in the A305 falling short of the 7
39 AZMD80 : KGAI I think that A305 should be a family like A310 A300. Two PAX version will fill well the Gap between 321 and 332: there is enought space for this.
40 Ikarus : Why is this a "rumour" and why now? Some senior Airbus designers on a recruitment presentation have mentioned the A305 about a year ago in my universi
41 AZMD80 : Ikarus, I think that Airbus will start working hard on 305 project only after 380 first fligh, even if it could be to late agaist 7e7.
42 Mark_D. : AZMD80-- Ikarus, I think that Airbus will start working hard on 305 project only after 380 first fligh, even if it could be to late agaist 7e7. Yeah t
43 AZMD80 : The main straetegic pourpouse is in my opinion not leave Boeing alone in a market sector. Haw many words were spent when Boeing announce not to compet
44 SAS-A321 : I don't think that you can say that they are too busy with the A380 to work with a A305. If they want to create it they will. If they don't have enoug
45 Steph001 : Really difficult to asses whether this rumor is true or not, maybe they are just checking the market and public opinion on that. I would just like to
46 AZMD80 : Steph001 No, I think that the effort of Airbus marketing are based on finding a new (militar) life for old 310 that have been grounded by the main air
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