Usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3236 posts, RR: 7 Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4290 times:
My sister is booking a trip to orlando in late April and was looking for the cheapest fares. First i recommended Jetblue but it would be too much trouble to get to JFK so then i suggested Continental or Song out of EWR. I expected Song to be much cheaper than Continental and man i was wrong.
She is leaving on a Thursday night and comming back Sunday afternoon. Song's 1 person round-trip fare was $605 compaired to Continental's 1 person round-trip fare of a much more economical $310.
So my question, how does Delta call this a LCC component of their airline? For people looking for a flight to MCO from EWR i dont think Song's IFE would entice me to pay an extra $300 for a ticket.
Also why on these specific days are the Song prices much higher than they normally are? Even at JFK the average Song ticket for these days was $260 one-way. After doing some research, i can buy a round-trip ticket for a 4-day trip next week for only $280, yet a round-trip ticket in 4 months is $605.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2841 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4212 times:
Song marks their fares to the highest possible fares on quite a few days during extremely busy travel weeks. April has many extremely busy travel days itself. If you click on the "seat map" feature that Song has, you'll see that only around 5 people have booked seats on the plane. So Song doesn't use a first-come first-serve basis. They use more of a "this is an extremely busy day for us so let's make it more expensive" basis. However, if you look at JetBlue from JFK, their fares are around $114 one-way to anywhere in Florida.
I really don't like the fact that Song would do that. Who'd pay over $600 for a rt to Florida if you can get a $230 fare on B6 or $300 on CO? I really feel bad for anyone who booked a flight on Song for $600 - there are MUCH better deals out there.
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3170 posts, RR: 20 Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4147 times:
Like jetBlueFan1 said, there is a chance that song is using a "who will pay the highest fare" tactic, while Continental doesnt really have to play that game as much.
Honestly, I was not thrilled with song, have no intention to fly them again after what they did to us (they cancelled our FLL-EWR flight for weather and later we found out they were too lazy to fly the plane in from MCO because there were not over 100 pax on the plane), and certainly dont think they much beat Continental.
Fare aside, Continental offers a much better product.
WindowSeat From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1309 posts, RR: 58 Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4084 times:
>>Like jetBlueFan1 said, there is a chance that song is using a "who will pay the highest fare" tactic, while Continental doesnt really have to play that game as much.<<
I don't think so...Every airline plays the "who will pay the highest fare". That, in essence, is the basis of revenue management which was pioneered by the airlines. The bottom line is you want more revenue, perhaps Song does have more high-yield passengers for those flights. The idea is that 100 pasengers paying $600 is better than 150 passengers paying $300. What's more Song may sell the rest 50 seats (otherwise empty) at $150 and make even more money. All airlines specifically target market segments that place a different "value" on each flight. They merely put a number to that value. This 'value' is different for every person. It is a very complex process using historical data, trend analysis and sometimes sheer gut. All they want is a butt in every seat for the price that each and every one is willing to pay!
[Edited 2004-01-02 22:08:02]
I'm all in favour of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with keyboards.
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3170 posts, RR: 20 Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4023 times:
I definately do think that CO plays the game as well, I didnt say they dont.. What I said is that Continental probably doesnt have to play it as much as song, because Continental is a little bit more established.
Jcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3950 times:
Song is really nothing more than Delta in a different livery trying to be JetBlue. I mean, a LCC isn't going to charge $600 RT for a flight from NYC to Florida (a huge travel route). Doesn't JetBlue have a cap on walk up fares, meaning that online bookings are usually always going to be cheaper than walkup?
If Song really wants to market itself as a different airline, IMHO, they need to separate themselves from Delta completely (i.e. no FF miles (even though I love them), no connections etc...) only then could Song truly be classified as a LCC.. Song just really reminds me of Delta Express in a different livery, which is in fact what it is (except for IFE).
In any case, I haven't tried them yet, so maybe the In class service brings them up, but from what I've heard I'm not expecting anything too grandiose. I want to fly them in the future, but I really haven't had an opportunity yet, and when I did (about 2 times from NYC to FLorida), B6 or other airlines were cheaper and more convenient.
Lhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3932 times:
By the way the Song product is of a much higher quality than JetBlue from personnel to uniforms to service to inflight meal options. The Delta Sky Miles program brings Song miles above Jet Blue! In addition Song customers can easily connect unchalleneged to Continental Airlines International connections at EWR!
Atlanta, is a destination that Jet Blue was unable to maintain!
Boston to Denver, sales seem to be flat and unproductive..another pull out!
In addition Song services mainline airports such as Los Angeles. They do ot serve the alternate and rather distant Long Beach.
Song will be growing more and more in the year 2004. Look for additional frequencies, routes, and destination additions. Rumored destinations for 2004 include San Francisco, Phoenix, Chicago, and Miami!
Dont forget that Song Offers these routes as well-
Have you seen the articles in the following magazines that herald Song, its image, its growth, and its service?
Conde Nast Traveller
Town and Country
You see something that most fail to recognize is the fact that the Song crowd is very different from the Jet Blue crowd. Song is marketing the wealthy residents of Soho, people that buy designer fashions, and the Hamptons crowd! In addition at the Song store opening in New York City, people flocked to buy merchandise that has been specially designed for the brand. The fashion-istas in New York, and Los Angeles are all over Song! They love it.. Finally a airline that caters to their needs. Song offers the spacious 757 with leather seats, new digital programming, Kate Spade designed crewmember uniforms, Spa Cuisine... and most of all an up-scale approach to low-cost coast to coast flying!
In reference to Meals-
Honey Wheat Deli Bagel $3: Available with jam and, of course, cream cheese
Stonyfield Farms Yogurt and Natursource Granola $3: Mountain Crunch Granola and yogurt
Breakfast Sandwich $6: Turkey on whole wheat croissant with cream cheese and mango jam
Lunch and Dinner-
Niman Ranch Roast Beef Fajita Wrap $8: Roast beef with grilled red pepper, organic romaine, sautéed onions, cilantro and organic cheddar cheese. Served in a jalapeno flat bread with a hint of salsa and cumin scented sour cream.
Asian Chicken Salad $7: Ginger marinated sliced chicken breast, romaine, Napa cabbage, shredded carrots, water chestnuts and mandarin oranges. Served with a sesame ginger vinaigrette.
Fruit and Cheese Snack $4: Triangle cut domestic cheddar and Swiss cheese wedges, with red seedless grapes and hearty crackers
Odwalla Super Protein™ Bar $3
Lunchables $3: Meat, cheese, and crackers
Pringles $2: Originals
Mrs. Field's $2: Chocolate chip cookies
Snickers $2: by M&M/Mars
Skittles $2: by M&M/Mars
Natursource $2: Unwind Trail Mix
JBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3170 posts, RR: 20 Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3855 times:
oOoOoOoOo... I live 30 minutes from Newark, I live 90 from JFK. Big whoop. I take what works..
Quite frankly, the negligable difference in driving time from one place to the other hardly seems enough to jusitfy your immature ranting on how awful jetBlue is and how wonderful song is.
You say, "Long live song because they fly an hour closer to me!"
I say, "Long live jetBlue because they make that extra hour worthwhile."
Please... enough of your posting the entire song website everytime someone shakes the bad stick at song... We obviously all own computers, we can go there if we want. If you have nothing worthwhile to add, save the bandwidth for the people who do.
Fjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 592 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3820 times:
Long live SONG; SONG is great; LHR001 rules!!!!
Pfft, just kidding....man LHR001 if typing had a personality you'd be the most stuck-up arrogant guy at the keyboard!
Here is a bottom line: This coming from someone (myself) who hasn't flown JetBlue (though i'd like to sometime) or Song (although Delta is one of my preferred airlines for domestic US travel)....
If there was never a JetBlue there WOULD NOT be a SONG!!!! Remember, it was JetBlue, not your beloved SONG that first "glamorized" and gave glitz and spark to the LCC industry which is littered with what amounts to flying busses (don't get me wrong; I like Southwest as well; their success speaks for itself). JetBlue was the one that pioneered the live TV; JetBlue was the one with the nice leather one-class seats with the nice pitch, JetBlue was the one with the $299 walkup fares or whatever the price is...it was JetBlue it wasn't SONG...
Imitation is the HIGHEST form of flattery around. And Delta loves JetBlue. So much that they had to create their own. They put their money where their mouth is and they are hoping it works (personally I think there is more than enough of a market for both JetBlue and SONG, but time will tell....)
Ease up on the LCC's LHR001!! Got news for you: even high-up businessmen in Las Vegas real estate have time "for the little LCCs"
Jcxp15 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 997 posts, RR: 5 Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3804 times:
Hi, I'm LHR.. I'm probably some 14 year old kid in the middle of nowhere who pretends that's I'm much older but then posts messages which reveal my true identity. Even better, I know no facts.. HAHAHAHAHA.. I fooled you all!!!!
LOL... What a weirdo, who I guess thinks he's a NYer, but knows nothing of them.
Let me refer you to LHR post #1, but even better, this time with pictures...
Notice how he doesn't respond when people confront him... Sounds like a guy or maybe a kid who's lived in his closet his whole life... :0
Fjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 592 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3786 times:
JBLUA320....good to see someone agrees with me on this guy; he knows his stuff but man is he arrogant about it. Anyhow, welcome as the second entry into my respected users list...they need to start a "disrespected users" list...
TransCon1976 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 30 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3774 times:
Very eloquent flnovak1. Personally, I hope that more people fly in the coming years and all of the airlines are profitable.
LHR001 what IS your deal? Have you ever even flown JetBlue? Even if you buy in to the "One World" concept of the legacy carriers or Delta's painted and slip-covered old 757's and prefer Song, why such a hatred for JetBlue?
Delta Air Lines is a legacy carrier and they have just repainted the same 757's that have been in use for years flying to the same destinations as their mainline product has always serviced.
If you are going to make such rabid statements about JetBlue, you might at least provide us with a personal "horror" story to justify your harsh and immature statement.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2841 posts, RR: 14 Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3761 times:
You are completely right. Without JetBlue, there would be no Song. There would probably be no Ted. B6 recognizes that immitation is the highest form of flattery, and therefore are not offended by Song, and even have a very laid back atmosphere. Did you see how cool they were when ATA made a jab at Oakland because JetBlue flies there?
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
Fjnovak1 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 592 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3612 times:
ATA flies to Oakland??? I knew they found their way to San Jose a while back but I didn't recognize they served Oakland....
I'm assuming from MDW, right?? B738 service?? with 2 or 3 daily n/s flights??
They go against Southwest on that route huh? One has to wonder how they do there... ATA certainly has their business- when i was at MDW this summer they had lots of flights going out of there from all 10 or 12 of their gates...(plus the Connection flights)
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6 Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3576 times:
You guys read way to much into stuff.
If Song is marketing $600RT fares on those days, it means they've already sold out the cheaper fares. jetBlue still has cheaper seats available on those days. But that's not always the case. Believe me, when I was flying last-minute transcons, I'd check to see if jetBlue had any cheap seats, and typically, they wouldn't -- having sold them all out. So their transcon prices would be as high ($700+) as everyone else's, if not higher...
That doesn't mean that jetBlue doesn't offer an inexpensive product. But you CANNOT look at a single day or a single flight for any airline.
JetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2841 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3534 times:
"If Song is marketing $600RT fares on those days, it means they've already sold out the cheaper fares."
No, it does not. Click on the seat map for some of those flights. You'll see only 5 seats booked. I seriously doubt that 5 seats already booked is going to increase the fare to $300 one-way.
"So their transcon prices would be as high ($700+) as everyone else's, if not higher..."
Sorry, but JetBlue's cap one-way fare is $299, around $320 w/taxes. Their cap fare is NOT $700 or anything near that.
"ATA flies to Oakland??? I knew they found their way to San Jose a while back but I didn't recognize they served Oakland...."
No, I didn't mean that. I meant that ATA has a radio commerical in NYC to advertise for their EWR-SFO flights. It says that ATA takes you directly into San Francisco, not Oakland. That extra part, "not Oakland", was to take a jab at JetBlue which only flies to OAK and not SFO. See what I mean?
Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
25 Sllevin: Sorry, but JetBlue's cap one-way fare is $299, around $320 w/taxes. Sorry, but it's $399 each way. So yes, $700+ with taxes is an entirely reasonable
26 Fjnovak1: Oh okay, I had misunderstood.... yeah, everybody loves to jab at JetBlue- they are good at what they do and everyone wants a piece of that pie...
27 Obithomas: they [Song] cancelled our FLL-EWR flight for weather and later we found out they were too lazy to fly the plane in from MCO because there were not ove
28 Capt078: Usairways85: song is a "low-COST carrier" (lcc), which usually has low-fares. song is not a "low-FARE carrier". this category of airline does not exis
29 ATA767: JetBlue is a wonderful ariline and a superior product. But you have to realize that B6 has created the base level for airlines like Sond and ATA and e
30 JpetekYXMD80: Lhr001- 'JFK-ATL Atlanta, is a destination that Jet Blue was unable to maintain!' I dont believe JetBlue ever flew JFK-ATL, they from ATL-LGB/OAK, so
31 Usairways85: Thanks for all the replys...and this was not supposed to be Song Vs. Jetblue, which airline is better. Capt078: I understand what you are saying but i
32 Capt078: USairways85: i cannot say why the fares are so high without the seats being filled. i will tell you that it is possible these seats are "sold" but not
33 Capt078: sorry for the above grammar mistakes, i meant to edit my message not post it.
34 Sllevin: The earliest is indeed probably 80% full, the midday flight is only 20% full and the late flight is around 40% full. Where are you getting these numbe
35 Usairways85: Capt078: Really, my family has always left for florida in the morning. I understand the situation where people leave right after work but then you get
36 JetBluefan1: "Sorry, but it's $399 each way" No, it's not on non-stop flights. It is $299...$294 when booking online. It's $349 if you take a connection. The highe
37 Atrude777: While some say....if it wasn't for B6 there would be no song or TED, well guess again,..if it wasn't for SOUTHWEST there would be NO B6!!!! Thats righ
38 JetBluefan1: Atrude777, You are somewhat right. Since Southwest bought Morris Air, JetBlue was formed. Morris Air was run by David Neelman, the present CEO of JetB
39 Mjszanto: I don't think these "wealthy residents of Soho" are going to make Song profitable or competitive for heavily debt laden Delta.
40 Atrude777: jetbluefan1- Thanks for adding onto my words, your on my respected user list. moving on--i agree with what he said if WN hadn't bought Morris Air who
41 Sllevin: No, it's not on non-stop flights. It is $299. hence, on transcons, as I pointed out, it's quite possible for it to be $399/$394 each way...again, demo
42 OttoPylit: I just got a quote from Song for a FULL walk up fare leaving on 8Apr(thur) and returning on 11Apr(sun). Both flights full. The full Y fare adds up to
43 OttoPylit: "This is a fact: JetBlue stole market share from Delta Express. Once JetBlue came along, nobody wanted to fly Delta Express anymore. For that reason,