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Upper Minnesota Considers Starting New Airline  
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1403 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Minnesotans mull new airline to ensure regional service
Elizabeth Souder, Dow Jones Newswires

NEW YORK -- Airport managers and other community leaders in northern Minnesota are considering starting a new airline to ensure regional air service, which is jeopardized by threats of a strike among pilots that fly on behalf of Northwest Airlines.

Air service in Minnesota is dominated by Northwest Airlines, and state officials have long considered ways to increase competition and air service. But the situation could become severe if pilots that fly for Mair Holdings Inc.'s Mesaba Airlines go on strike, possibly wiping out service entirely to some Minnesota cities.

Mesaba, a regional carrier, operates flights to 112 airports on behalf of Northwest Airlines. And for 20 towns in the Midwest - including St. Cloud, Brainerd and Hibbing in Minnesota - Mesaba is the only provider of commercial air service. A pilot strike, which could begin Jan. 10, may wipe out that service, forcing travelers to drive hours to Minneapolis to board planes.

David Danielson, the airport manager for Chisholm-Hibbing Municipal Airport in northeast Minnesota, said he and other local people have a plan, and the necessary financing, to build a new airline for the region.

(view the rest of the Star Tribune article)


I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29840 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

Northwest will never allow it to happen.

They are one of the most predatory airlines out there.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

I think one of the contigency plans by both Mesaba & NW is to send Big Sky into many of these markets.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

I back what L-188 says. They'd be flying DC-9 and A32X into every strip they can get into. (I mean that sarcastically).They will protect, you know that!
ASSFO



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSprxflySWA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

It would turn out just like in South Dakota when they had GP Express fly to Spearfish,Pierre, Sioux Falls,etc. That did not last long because demand was low. That is probably why no one flew it to begin with.
I could see MN contracting with, say Mesa, to fly BE1900s up there. It would beat starting their own state run outfit like California had discussed years ago.
So people in St. Cloud would have to drive all the way to MSP? So what, it is only 72 freeway miles. Boy, what hardship!
Serve these cities: INL BJI HIB MKT ORT TVF BRD and maybe GPZ from MSP.
With these routes:
ORT-MKT-MSP
TVF-BJI-MSP
INL-HIB-MSP
GPZ-BRD-MSP
I think three M-F,2 SaSu flights would be sufficient.
How much would each city have to pay to get service? And how would the taxpayers respond to paying for the service?
This sort of idea seems to never panout as proponents expect. Hopefully, if they do it, they will succeed. Assuming NW doesn't pullout of any location with "MinnyAirways" service.


User currently onlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12284 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2439 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

SprxflySWA, even though I totally agree with you that MKT should have air service (hey, I live there), it's also only 70 hwy miles from MSP.


“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
User currently offlineIflewrepublic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 537 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

"State officials have long considered ways to increase competition..."

Are these the same officials that encouraged Northwest to take over Republic, Minneapolis' OTHER hometown airline, in 1986? Another airline solely serving Minnesota, as well as the rest of the upper midwest, doesn't stand a chance against Northwest. Moving Big Scare, I mean Big Sky, into that area might not help much. Labor issues between Northwest, Mesaba, and Pinnacle need to be straightened out. Should anything drastic happen to cause loss of service to those outlying communities, it will definitely be a sad day for everyone.

Let's hope something good comes of all this.

Iflewrepublic.



Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 34
Reply 7, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Moving Big Scare, I mean Big Sky, into that area might not help much. Labor issues between Northwest, Mesaba, and Pinnacle need to be straightened out.

It might not be legal, either. When Comair pilots went on strike in 2001, their collective bargaining agreement said that Delta could not put ASA, etc. on any Comair route because that would be "strikebreaking" or something like that. There were a lot of threads about this back at the time.

NW's agreement with Mesaba probably has a similar clause. Any of our NW experts know?

In any event, neither management nor unions tend to give a rip about the people their actions affect--the "Summer of Hell" mentality of contempt for the passenger.

Finally, local or state attempts to start airlines tend to fail badly. Access Air, for instance.

Jim




Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineIflewrepublic From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 537 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

I do know that there are a few (several) of us who do not want to cross those lines by filling routes with mainline aircraft. I can already hear the twisting of the screws.

Iflewrepublic.



Aviation is proof that, given the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
User currently offlineBigB From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 615 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2343 times:

Are these the same officials that encouraged Northwest to take over Republic, Minneapolis' OTHER hometown airline, in 1986?

I doubt that because it is 2004. And different officials would be in office by now.



ETSN Baber, USN
User currently offlineUadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

innocousfox,
glad to see a anti labor person in here..unless you know the details on the mesaba pilot contract state it or keep your personal thoughts to your self.......



bus driver.......move that bus:)
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

"unless you know the details on the mesaba pilot contract state it or keep your personal thoughts to your self......."

Since when is THAT a rule?



Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2249 times:
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Wasn't there a little regional airline flying between Brainerd or Hibbing to MSP not too long ago...after GP Express? They could always ask Great Mistakes, I mean, Great Lakes, to fly the northern MN routes.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7771 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2163 times:

Yeah, nice stupid new plan.....some people must not have any common sense.

NW and the State of MN are both in bed with each other. I hardly doubt this plan would ever work for these oh-so-popular destinations. I swear some airport managers live in a dream world. If they were to ever start/get/buy/dream/invent a new airline, they wouldn't be flying around in 34 seat Saab's, they'd be lucky to get 19-seat Metros, more likely 9-pax Cessna's. That will sure get the passengers. Then wait til NW and XJ strike back. Where is this airline gonna go? I'm sure they'll have a large network that will get the people in droves....sure.

Anyways, with the impending strike deadline, be forewarded.....IF and only IF XJ goes on strike, you will not see NW, Pinnacle, or any other regional provider picking up Mesaba routes. Remember, labor unions, my friends. They will not be flying struck work, as in the pilot circles, there is overwhelming support for the Mesaba group and their cause. Being a scab is a serious no-no in the world of unions.....


User currently offlineAsmtrd From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2114 times:

Here in Aberdeen SD we are cover by the essential air service law. If we don't have Mesaba flights then the government will have to find someone to replace them. How is NW going to protect themselves with that?

User currently offlineBeltwaybandit From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2085 times:

If they were serious about getting competition in to the airport, they would need to give a revenue guaranty to get the newcomer past the predation by NW. Sounds crazy, but in the end, the consumer wins.

User currently offlineMaiznblu_757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5112 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

I think the entire midwest should start one new airline, not just Minnesota.

Another thought. NWA or Pinnacle may not replace the Mesaba flights, Thats probably true. Those smaller airports that are lucky enough to have Northwest Airlines service, or a Pinnacle flight or two, will see larger Northwest aircraft for those particular flights.

[Edited 2004-01-05 22:34:25]

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4030 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Actually, Maiznblu757 - increasing a/c size is also going to be a violation of the struck work clause. For example, the DC9-10 that is flown to CVG from MSP at 302pm, cannot become an airbus or a larger DC9. So, there won't be any of that going on...


AZJ


User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

What hub do they plan to connect to? Without a codeshare or at least an interlining agreement this plan simply will not work. Also, business ventures initiated by politicians with public money generally do not work. In the better cases they are allowed to fail. In worse cases (like Amtrak) they just keep sucking down money.

That being said, Ive always though Duluth was underserved becuase of the city's isolation and because of the potential tourist traffic to the boundary waters and other places...


User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

KaiGywer:

I'm not sure how long you've lived in the Mankato area. My grandparents used to live on Lake Washington, but now live downtown in Old Main Aparmtnets. I've driven by the airport many, many times in my multiple visits there every year. MKT used to be served by North Central, then Republic. I remember picking my dad up at the airport there when I was very small. Then, for many years, a small airline Bemidji? served MSP-MKT. My grandfather flew them once to connect to a Delta flight to meet my father and I for a trip to Alaska.

I've often wondered why Delta Connection or American Eagle haven't tried routing through CVG or ORD. The business community is so large in the Mankato area, with a couple of very, very large companies, that I would think they might just be able to make it work. But I've never seen any data to prove that.

I wonder if other cities might be able to attract such service in light of this threatened strike.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7771 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (10 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1851 times:

Since Eagle is no longer in the prop business at ORD and same for DL at CVG there is no way any of the destinations would be served by either one. These cities can't support RJ service, the props are the only thing economical and that can provide them with some frequency. These cities show how there is still a need for turboprop service in the nation's air transportation network.

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