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Anti-Semitism On Emirates  
User currently offlineIronminds From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 556 posts, RR: 3
Posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18561 times:

I used to think of Emirates as a fairly enlightened Arab airline (booze, femme FAs, etc)...then I read this: http://silentrunning.tv/archives/003527.php

Apparently even these cosmopolitan adherents of the religion of peace get a bit tetchy if you order a kosher meal....oy!

I'm not Jewish, but if this is true, they certainly wouldn't get my business.

218 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEmiratesA345 From Canada, joined Jun 2003, 2123 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18323 times:

http://silentrunning.tv/archives/003527.php

First of all, it is Emirates, not Air Emirates.

Secondly, they're right. What was it that I heard about people who hae visited Israel to not be able to go to the UAE? If this is true, why would Jewish people want to fly Emirates? I realize that they have flights which do not originate or land in Dubai, however I would say that it would be safe to assume that many Jews would not fly on Emirates.

EmiratesA345 Smile/happy/getting dizzy



You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18230 times:

EmiratesA345, what exactly were they right about?

"What was it that I heard about people who hae visited Israel to not be able to go to the UAE?"

I believe you mean that if a person has their passport stamped from Israel, they will receive harsh treatment from customs in Dubai.

If that story in the link is true, it is simple anti-semitism. Emirates should be forced to apologize and make sure nothing similar happens in the future. For an airline that hopes to start flying to my hometown JFK soon, it digusts me.


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8114 posts, RR: 53
Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18185 times:

Anti-Israeli attitudes are not anti-Semitism. Does anyone really think that people who object to Israel and it's behaviour would be in favour of same if Israel was, say, a Buddhist nation? Come on.

Emirates are a good airline and are not "anti-Semitic". Good try though.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18156 times:

Except this wasn't an Anti-Isreali position, it was an anti-semetic one.

The comment was they don't have Jewish meals, not Israeli meals.

And the guy ordering the meal and buying the ticket was a kiwi not an Israeli

But I am curious if somebody in the know could chime in on the compatablity of Jewish and Muslim dietary laws?



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18096 times:

From what I understand, L-188, what is kosher usually tends to be halal, but what is halal is almost never kosher, as a rabbi needs to okay the preparation methods and what not.

Personally I find this abhorren and abominable. If an airline in the US tried this, the DOJ would have ALL sorts of fun putting them out of business. It's discrimination, plain and simple. Obviously, whoever does Emirates's catering in MEL is bound to be able to prepare kosher meals. The excuse "we're an Arab airline" just doesn't cut it.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineB777337 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18097 times:

This kind of behaviour on the part of Emirates or for that matter any airline is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18064 times:

Emirates345,

You remarks grow more incoherent by the day. What was Emirates 'correct' about?

Cedarjet,

Don't obfuscate the issue by casting this as an anti-Israel issue. It clearly and very obviously was not. Poor try.


**************
If Emirates expects to be regarded in the ranks of world-class businesses, it cannot discriminate on the basis of religion.


[Edited 2004-01-04 08:23:24]

User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18038 times:

Question, Does El Al serve Arab food?


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18037 times:

Korg, again, what is kosher usually fits into Muslim dietary requirements.


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18024 times:

L-188:

A Kosher meal can be substituted for a Moslem meal, but not the other way around. In flight kitchens almost always have more Kosher meals than Moslem (Halal) meals on hand. If a Moslem meal has been ordered and none is available, a Kosher meal is substituted.

I have never, ever had a Moslem turn down a Kosher meal.

Also, it would have been little problem to provide him with a Kosher meal. There are numerous Kosher meal packers in the world. All of the separate parts and pieces are certified Kosher by a recognized Rabbinical Authority. An example would be the Union of Orthodox Jewish Rabbis. If you look on numerous food products that can be purchased in any grocery store, you can find the Kosher markings. Kellogg's Cereals are Kosher. So is Coca-Cola. The Cokes that are Kosher for Passover (when they are bottled) are sweetened with cane or beet sugar not the usual corn syrup.

A Kosher meal is delivered to the airplane with the Rabbinical seals intact and they stay that way. The salad, bread, margarine, dessert, and flatware are packaged on a sealed plastic tray. The entrée is in a separate Rabbinically sealed package. It is put into the oven and heated until it is hot. The cold part of the tray and the hot entrée are delivered with the seals intact to the passenger who is the one who breaks the seals.

They're not a big deal to cater and they're not a big deal to serve. Emirates should be ashamed of itself just for being so petty and crappy about this.

Kosher meals are pre-packaged frozen meals, for Pete's sake. All they had to do was order one of the things. The kitchen would have put the entree in the fridge to thaw and it would have been delivered to the airplane cold and ready for heating.



User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18020 times:

that's fine Garn but let's say an Arab person requested special arabic meal on El Al flight...would they make it?


Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17986 times:

Define "special arabic meal." if you're talking about based on dietary requirements, then again, a kosher meal fits all those dietary requirements and there's nothing further to differentiate it (doesn't have to be blessed by an imam or what have you). If you mean "will El Al order a certain regional dish" then I wouldn't know, but my guess would be no if it were of some difficulty to procure.

Also, keep in mind, not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs.

[Edited 2004-01-04 08:36:44]


South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineMjszanto From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17967 times:

I skimmed through this, and I find it a little bit concerning. I am Jewish and I've considered flying Arab airlines. In fact I've considered visiting Dubai, United Arab Emirates. Personally, generally, I'd had heard good things about Air Emirates. Generally, there is no reason to believe that the issue that people having gone to Israel should have any problems visiting United Arab Emirates. However, discriminating against somebody for that would basically be anti-Semitic. Most Jews have visited Israel and Israel is unique mostly in being a largely Jewish state.

It is a very foolish way for a airline to operate. It would only hurt their profits and their operations. This is the type of thing that hurts the economies of the region. I know that many people who visit Arab countries are Jewish. Historically, many Jewish people have visited Egypt, Morroco, and Jordan. In fact, many Israelis have visited these countries. While in the last few years, less Israelis have visited Egypt and Jordan, a number of Israeli trips to Morocco have been organized recently. There certainly are flights between Israel and Jordan and Egypt right now.

When there was that big global trade conference in Dubai, one of Dubai's leaders was quoted as saying to the Israelis that he wanted many Israelis to visit Dubai.

On the negative side you can watch memri.org/video.


User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17930 times:

Korg747:

that's fine Garn but let's say an Arab person requested special arabic meal on El Al flight...would they make it?

A Kosher meal meets the religious requirement of Moslems. That is, what is necessary is to meet the religious requirements. There is no promise that it is going to taste like Aunt Soandso's special whatever.

No airline that I know of goes about trying to produce special regional dishes for people.


User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17924 times:

Does the UAE even recognize Israel?

User currently offlineKorg747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 549 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17909 times:

Garnet, I guess we will have to have that question answerd by a Working person from El Al.

"Also, keep in mind, not all Arabs are Muslim and not all Muslims are Arabs."

True that, I my self was born from day one as an Christian(Qoptic) Egyption and proud of it too.



Please excuse my English!
User currently offlineCapt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17899 times:

Korg747: despite impressions created by the media, the majority of israel consists of a peaceful coexistance among jews, christians, and arabs (in this case both christian and moslem). in fact, arabs comprise the second largest population of the jewish state. when i flew to israel, there were many moslems aboard my flight.

i did quickly check el al's website and was unable to locate a special meal designed specifically for moslems. but as previous commentary has suggested, moslem traditional allows for some substitutes which el al does offer. i cannot say that el al would or would not make a specific arab meal, but i do not believe this is analogous to the emirates anecdote. the important distinction is that the emirates flight was originating and ending anicillary countries, in this case new zealand and australia.


User currently offlineGarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5395 posts, RR: 52
Reply 18, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17897 times:

Rjpieces - again, this is nothing to do with the existence of the state of Israel.

Here's some interesting reading, albeit a little old
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/anti-semitism/reluae99.html




South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlineRjpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17893 times:

An interesting sidenote....A majority of Muslims in the US aren't Arab, they are African American. And a majority of Arabs in the US aren't Muslim, they are Christian.

User currently offlineStefandotde From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17830 times:

So why dont we talk about anti-arabism on ElAl and US carriers?
How do they get treated?


User currently offlineSV777KiloAlpha From Saudi Arabia, joined Dec 2003, 267 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17790 times:

A cheap attempt to slander Emirates image!

I traveled on many major US and European airlines an non could offer me Halal meals, except those serving Muslim countries!!! Why is that not considered Anti-Islam? ANSWER ME PLEASE?

Grow up everyone and be fair.

 Big grin
HZ-AKA



PPL since 2006
User currently offlinePiedmontGirl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1124 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17792 times:

Stefandotde:

So why dont we talk about anti-arabism on ElAl and US carriers?
How do they get treated?


On my flights? Just like everybody else.

This is a question of petty and small behavior from an airline that bills itself as a world class carrier.

If they're going to do that, they're going to have to live up to it or drop it.



User currently offlineUal747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17792 times:

They get treated the same way other passengers get treated stefandodte.

UAL


User currently offlineCapt078 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (10 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 17775 times:

stefandotde: you are absolutely correct. it is a true misfortune that a whole group of people (arabs/middle easterners) are discriminated against because of the actions of a few extremists. i am a jew and a zionist, but i think it is shameful how the u.s. and israel treat the arab world. i am less sympathetic to the governments of libya, iran, and syria, but it is a disgrace that we have let the deeds of a slight fraction of the region's population drive our hatred and discrimation against the overwhelming peaceful majority.

25 Stefandotde : And what about check in, UAL? What about pilots who denied flying arabic and muslim people in their planes? We always talk about anti-americanism and
26 Flyboyqf : When I used to work the check in counters at Melbourne Airport with Qantas, Emirates was one of our many customer airlines. When they first started fl
27 L-188 : Hmmm, interesting about the meals. I have an Aunt that decided to order the kosher meal or the vegitarian meal regardles. Said the food was better and
28 Uadc8contrail : el al security treats the palestinians like shit when they check in at ord..can understand how they are security minded but they go out their way to m
29 Stefandotde : @ Capt078: I totally agree with you. Problem is that cause of faults from governments, their people will be treated bad. And unfortunately it's nothin
30 Sjc>sfo : "A cheap attempt to slander Emirates image! I traveled on many major US and European airlines an non could offer me Halal meals, except those serving
31 Garnetpalmetto : A quick rundown of the five members of the "Big Six" carriers that still cater: DL - offers Muslim meals US - offers Muslim meals UA - offers Muslim m
32 Kevin : For those of you asking whether EL AL serves Arab food. I am 100% sure they do not. But here we are not talking about EL Al a hard core Israeli airlin
33 Stefandotde : Flyboyqf:" ...if a person checking in for their flight had an Israeli stamp in their passport, they were not to be uplifted. ..." Sorry, what does upl
34 Rjpieces : Nobody has answered my question. Does the UAE recognize Israel? "el al security treats the palestinians like shit when they check in at ord..can under
35 MaverickM11 : "el al security treats the palestinians like shit when they check in at ord..can understand how they are security minded but they go out their way to
36 StefanDotDe : @Ripieces: That's not true, arabic people who leave Jerusalem f.e., for a longer time, haven't the right to come back. And that is anti-arabic, any wa
37 RJpieces : Arabic people who leave Jerusalem.....? I don't know what anti-semitic hate machine feeds your rage but you are dreaming. Israel is a democracy and al
38 Post contains images StefanDotDe : Thanks a lot that you confirmed my theory, RJpieces: if somebody says something against Israel, he is amtisemitic. Maybe this works in the USA, but no
39 Flyboyqf : StefanDotde ... To not uplift someone means to deny someone transportation. As I said earlier, this policy may have changed as all this happened at le
40 FraT : We always talk about anti-americanism and anti-semitism. What about : * Anti-Frenchism? * Anti-Germanism? * Anti-Arabism? * Andi-Bhuddism? StefanDotDe
41 StefanDotDe : @ Flyboyqf - i flew with EK 4 years ago and hat a stamp for Israel. There was no problem at check in. Ok, i didn't order kosher food and so i don't kn
42 Stefandotde : @ FraT: Anti-Frenchism: French Fries into Freedom Fries - (what about freedom kiss?) And what about "Old Europe"? Remember?
43 Lj : Why is Emirates at fault? Fact, Emirates does not have kosher meals. The travel agent didn't inform the passenger correctly because he didn't know tha
44 ME AVN FAN : Anybody ever tried to ask for Halal-meal on intra-European flights ? The mistake clearly was with the travel-agent who A) should have told the custome
45 Post contains links GoAround : The information on the Emirates website, or lack of it, makes the situation pretty clear: http://www.emirates.com/TravellerInformation/Inflight/Specia
46 Mjszanto : OK you have said a bunch of incorrect things. The main thing that you are saying is just absolutely wrong. The airline effectively told the Jewish guy
47 L-188 : Well, I still think the reason is crappy, but they do make it public they don't offer a Kosher meal.
48 Solnabo : Get some vegetarian dish, for crying ot loud!!!!!! **Jeehhhh** Michael/SE
49 Cospn : There are many Arab citizens of Israel not everyone is Jewish..Could these people ride on EK as they speak Arabic ??? That is the problem with the Ara
50 Motorhussy : Yeah there appears to be some confusion here between anti-semitism and anti-Israeli and especially anti-Zionist. Anti-semitism means you're a "bigot"
51 FraT : "Anti-Frenchism: French Fries into Freedom Fries - (what about freedom kiss?) And what about "Old Europe"? Remember?" StefanDotDe, this is an aviation
52 StefanDotDe : @FraT - so you admit: there is an anti-frenchism and anti- xxx - anyway; all anti-xxx are racism! Also anti-semitism. By the way: I didn't start the t
53 Motorhussy : I repeat my previous question: "Does El-Al serve Halal meals?" Regards MH
54 FraT : StefanDotDe, of course there is Anti-Frenchism as well as Anti-Americanism, no question about that. But again, this forum is not the right place for t
55 Post contains images Lauda777 : Hello! This whole thing is about food!?!?!?! I agree with L J all airlines have policies and theres lots of airlines, if you don't like it don't fly w
56 Ams : Most Airlines will offer different medical meals, like lowfat, diabetic, etc In regards to religious meals, it is depending on the airline company. so
57 B777337 : Ask for a vegeterian dish!!!!!!!! You won't have to bother whether it is halal or kosher or anything else.
58 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : This question has been answered a number of times in this thread... so READ IT... - kosher meals are almost always available, and those meals satisfy
59 9V-SPF : Having flown a lot on US carriers during the last couple of years, I never noticed any unappropriate behaviour of the crew towards arab passengers. As
60 Indianguy : Well, Emirates is an Arab airline so is geared towards Arabs. If any community feels discrminated against they can well take their business to other a
61 Mog : With mad-cow, who wants meat on board anymore?
62 FLYSSC : First, Arabs CAN NOT be anti-Semitic because they ARE Semite themselves ! There is NO "arab" meal !!! Airlines offer (or not) to their PAX : MOML (Mus
63 Luftaom : Most airlines (and im sure BA is amongst them) offer an asian vegetarian alternative.
64 Lj : OK you have said a bunch of incorrect things. The main thing that you are saying is just absolutely wrong. The airline effectively told the Jewish guy
65 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : Dear FLYSSC, Halal: The meat in the meal should be slaughtered by knife not electrified or suffocated. And the meal does not include pork or pork fats
66 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Well I am sure to draw a fire storm here. But this is a prime example of why our, yes "OUR" meaning ALL of us, world is falling apart. Why not, just b
67 StefanDotDe : Emirates doesn't offer kosher, ElAl doesn't offer Halal - ok, we got it. This topic (without question-mark!!!) maybe has been written to damage the im
68 Sllevin : It's tragic to see that an airline such as Emirates has stooped so low as to be insulting to Jews. Certainly such actions do not make the world a bett
69 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : Emirates doesn't offer kosher, ElAl doesn't offer Halal - ok, we got it. StefanDotDe, Thank you for the information. I believe that no one now can arg
70 Post contains images StefanDotDe : @Steve: I am no muslim and no jew. Just believe in Atheism But a muslim wrote: "Kosher would not be halal because the animal needs to be blessed befor
71 Gr8slvrflt : I've flown on Emirates and found the service to be excellent. I was told by my friend living in Dubai I would have no problem coming but was warned no
72 ME AVN FAN : Arab food on ELAL ? of course yes. Why ? Simply because many Israelis are of Jewish-Arab origin and Arab cuisine is part of the Israeli cuisine. When
73 Scbriml : As someone who travels to the middle-east a lot, I'll throw in my two-penny worth. My company advises us to get a duplicate passport if we want to tra
74 ME AVN FAN : Mjszanto; Arabs in Europe may face problems at places BUT in general, the European countries are NOT as sharply and extremely pro-Israeli as the USA,
75 L-188 : and no European country subjects incoming Arabs (tourists, businessmen, students) to such hindrances and chicaneries as the USA ! What hinderances. An
76 ME AVN FAN : Scbriml; the passport-issue is complicated. With the Israel stamp you do not have problems in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan. There may be p
77 Haveric : Can people here not read? It has been explained multiple times that a Kosher meal is also Halal, but not vice versa. This is because a Kosher meal has
78 Starwood : It will be entirely logical for Emirates not to offer kosher meals on their flights as long as U.A.E will continue to maintain their policy regarding
79 ME AVN FAN : Haveric; IF a Jew wants to fly on Emirates, he certainly can be expected to accept Halal meals, even if realizing that it is neither Kosher* or Kosher
80 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : Thus, Muslims aboard El Al are able to eat all of the Kosher meals Haveric, Why is it that Muslims have to eat whatever is available whether it is Kos
81 Haveric : HZ-AKA -- the difference is, is that the Kosher passenger is not permitted to eat the Halal meal. Simple as that.
82 Airmale : I just read that link and if its true then its anti-semitism, but not anti-Israel, they should cater to all the faiths, and its not that their own cat
83 ME AVN FAN : Haveric; IF a Jewish passenger feels he is NOT permitted to eat Halal food on board of Emirates, how will be permitted to eat anything on the ground a
84 Dtwclipper : After reading through all of these posts let me throw in my two cents as an American Jew. 1. Anti-Muslim rhetoric in this thread: Well it is political
85 Mjszanto : First of all, I enjoyed reading your post. I thought you made many good points. Second, let me say that I don't think I was ever convinced the airline
86 ME AVN FAN : airmale; ever considered what you are talking about ? Semites are Arabs plus also the Jews. so that it in such a context simply is an insult and a che
87 FoxBravo : A lot of people seem to have overlooked one aspect of this story. IMHO, it's important to put it into geographical context. Note that this was NOT on
88 Post contains links Ahlfors : Well, considering that Arabic is a semitic language and the Arabs are semites, I would find it difficult to believe that an Arab airline could be anti
89 Ts-ior : Both Jewish and Muslim dishes are compatible and that's why Emirates and other Arab airlines does not have a specific Kosher meal,and so does EL-AL i
90 Dtwclipper : Oh paleeeeeese, let's not play semantics with Semitics
91 Mjszanto : I would like to add, that the more that I think about, the more I tend to think the guy was silly to push the kosher issue. When you fly a Chinese air
92 Fixfox : I have checked the website of Emirates, I would say they offer an extensive choice of meals. OK, no Kosher... Did anyone of you formally report this o
93 Mjszanto : I think that even boycotting the citizens of a country are a dangerous policy. It tends to promote racism and hostility to the people of that country.
94 Sllevin : When you fly a Chinese airline, you don't automatically expect that they have Kosher food If I am flying a Chinese airline internationally, from, say,
95 DoorsToManual : For what it's worth, I'm Jewish and have flown Emirates many times - I think they are a brilliant airline and have absolutely no qualms about flying t
96 YYZ4RADD : SV777KiloAlpha I agree with you, lets try to look from both sides of the glass and be fair with everybody. I still think, whoever is trying to make a
97 Airmale : Agree with DoorsToManual, its all much ado about nothing really, perhaps to taint the airlines image, not working ofcourse.
98 ME AVN FAN : Sllevin; you simply mix up the two problems in question. The question is NOT so much the "role" of Emirates, it rather is how the UAE is to handle the
99 Mjszanto : 2 statements I disagree with. First, anti-Semitism is clearly defined as bigotry against Jews specifically, not Semites generally. Your argument is an
100 ME AVN FAN : Mjszanto; the term "anti-Semitism" clearly refers to what happened (happens) in Europe against the Jews. Right you are that it basically does NOT desc
101 HlywdCatft : Arabs are also members of the Semite race, so saying that Arabs are Anti Semitist would be kind of impossible
102 Post contains images Pat : Hi there ! Looks like this meal-story passionate a lot of people ... or is it the political/religious aspect ??? Just as some have written ... if EK d
103 OD720 : The people most entitled to post about this are Jews, Israelis, UAE citizens, Muslim Arabs and Muslims in general. It actually seems that, so far Jews
104 Mjszanto : Good questions. I'm Jewish, but I don't keep Kosher. Some of my relatives do. Anyway for me Kosher food is not a big issue, whether it be on Air Franc
105 Delta-flyer : I just perused this thread, and overall, I am not surprised by the actions of Emirates, nor the responses from A.net members. On the issue of what ant
106 PiedmontGirl : Sllevin: When you fly a Chinese airline, you don't automatically expect that they have Kosher food. If I am flying a Chinese airline internationally,
107 Airmale : Depending on the origin of the flight and meal choices available, if they're operating between two non-Muslim destinations, and if theyre serving Fish
108 Post contains links Delta-flyer : QD720....good questions......here are my views.... 1. I don't care whether the meal is kosher or not. Remember, kosher is not some special food, it's
109 Delta-flyer : PiedmontGirl ..... Good answers! BTW, I was on an Air China flight from PVG to LAX last year and the elderly couple next to me pre-ordered kosher meal
110 N79969 : This is not about the availability of the meal per se. It is about the response he received when asking about a Kosher meal. Emirates holds itself out
111 Rjpieces : Due to the clever crafting of StefanDotDe and SV777KiloAlpha, this incident is being labeled as something simple and not important when in fact it is
112 Garnetpalmetto : those who are complaining about the non-availability of Halal meals on US carriers. When was the last time anyone got a meal on a US domestic flight?
113 Mjszanto : PMGirl, That's a well thought out post. It makes a lot of sense. In regard to the response from the airline, I will look at it more carefully again
114 Yegbey01 : Let me say this: Could a Moslem fly El-Al without harrassment???? what would you call this? Profiling, discriminarion...... And I don't get how some f
115 Mjszanto : Rjpieces, I share many of your concerns. However, I think that there is some complexity there, and I wouldn't treat the UAE, as a monolithic place. I
116 Airmale : Any one bother to inquire if other Muslim airlines offer Kosher meals? or is this to malign Emirates only?
117 Rjpieces : hahaaahha....So being at war with Israel has nothing to do with Jews? Have you been drinking? There is no difference there, and telling yourself there
118 Goose : .... in the 1930s and 1940s, I'd bet that Lufthansa had a similar "no uplift" policy for Jews, too...... Things change. Perhaps in time, Emirates will
119 Airmale : What a liar you are Rjpieces, dont distort the picture, Muslims are not against Jews, its the state of Israel's policies that they dont agree with, it
120 RJpieces : When exactly did i say that Muslims are against Jews?
121 Haveric : Excellent response Delta-Flyer. Emirates has taken an affirmative stance against serving the passengers of the world. Several aspects of their service
122 Airmale : hahaaahha....So being at war with Israel has nothing to do with Jews? Have you been drinking? There is no difference there, and telling yourself ther
123 Garnetpalmetto : Any one bother to inquire if other Muslim airlines offer Kosher meals? or is this to malign Emirates only? Well, most of the other airlines I checked
124 Post contains links Haveric : Regarding other Arabic carriers, I found the following on Royal Jordanian's website. Although they don't mention any type of meal specifically, they d
125 Mjszanto : ME AVN FAN , I don't appreciate you attributing "hidden hatred" to my very honest straight forward posts. I don't keep anything hidden and I think yo
126 Post contains links Haveric : I also found this website: http://www.airguideonline.com/airgfoodservice.htm which lists special meals served by some airlines. This site is not compl
127 Mjszanto : I appreciate SV777KiloAlpha's efforts to approach everything from a standpoint of fairness. I also would like to add that if one mistakenly equate ant
128 Mjszanto : And this simply not true. Perhaps, you're seeing what you want to, but it is absolute false: The Israelis, as I saw, regard Italian, Arab, Russian and
129 PiedmontGirl : Delta-flyer, Mjszanto: Thank you. There are numerous Kosher kitchens that make these things up and ship them to airline catering kitchens all over the
130 StevenUhl777 : Earlier question: Does the UAE even recognize Israel? Rjpieces: I'm 99.99% sure they do not. In fact, I believe the only Arab nation that does is Egyp
131 AirGabon : Jordan has also recognized Israel (Royal Jordanian flies to Tel Aviv), Egyptair flies also to Tel Aviv. In North Africa, I think Morocco has recognize
132 RJpieces : It's not that Muslim countries don't recognize Israel, it is that Arab countries don't. For example, Turkey and Israel are tight allies. When Turkey h
133 Mjszanto : Jordan and Egypt both recognize Israel. Jordan's recognition only dates from the 1990s, but the government of Jordan has had close relations with Isra
134 Mjszanto : The Israelis for a long time had a Mossad office in Amman Jordan. The relations between Israel and the Jordanian government were secret until they est
135 Rjpieces : Didn't the Mossad also foil several assasination attempts against King Hussein and did he not also tell the Israelis of an assasination attempt of the
136 Mjszanto : And President Clinton was able to get the foreign minister of Saudi Arabia to come to Prime Minister Rabin's funeral in 1995 in Israel. Elements of th
137 Mjszanto : The Israelis tape recorded the leader of Egypt telling King Hussein that the Israel army was devastated. Contrary to common perception, this was proba
138 Iad777 : Cedarjet wrote: Anti-Israeli attitudes are not anti-Semitism. Does anyone really think that people who object to Israel and it's behaviour would be in
139 Post contains links Aa757first : Qatar Airways says "You can pre-order meals for children, infants and for anyone requiring special diets." I have a question: is a vegetarian meal kos
140 Mjszanto : It is always strange those who single out Israel's government for criticism, but ignore Syria wiping out a Muslim Syrian city,Hama, in 1982. I am not
141 Windshear : The Arab world tends to not see the difference between Israel and Jews world wide they speak of a world wide Jewish conspiracy and condemn them... Thi
142 Post contains images Leezyjet : It seems this thread is getting away from the aviation topic and should possibly be moved into the non-av forum. Most airlines require special meals t
143 PiedmontGirl : Aa757first: I have a question: is a vegetarian meal kosher? No. It is not. Whole unpeeled fresh fruit, however, is Kosher by virtue of the fact that i
144 Mark_D. : Seems there's a lot of conclusion-jumping going on, around here. Who knows what the real story is. If that purported account is in fact true as writte
145 Windshear : Mark_D I agree with you...Thus my answer to the anti Semitism remark... Also I would love to fly with Emirates because they seem not to care for such
146 Uaord : It is time for Chelsea football club which was recently purchased by Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich to drop Emirates as their sponser, "Fly EL-A
147 AnsettAW : Nice observation, Uaord! The Emirates branding is all wrong for Chelsea....and it goes beyond color scheme...
148 Ek345 : As far as the "El Al does not offer a Halal meal" that would be incorrect. El Al offers meals which fit the Halal requirements. I am sure in that case
149 Haveric : EK345 -- as has been explained REPEATEDLY in this thread, a Halal meal does not meet the requirements of Kashrut -- IT IS NOT Kosher. No one is saying
150 Marcopolo747 : THIS DISCUSSION IS LIKE A STORM IN A GLASS OF WATER. LETS KEEP IT SIMPLE : THOSE WHO NEED A KOSHER MEAL SHOULDN'T FLY EK AND THOSE IN NEED OF A MUSLI
151 RJpieces : You clearly have missed the point. Equating LY to what EK did is awful. Any Muslim can fly LY and receive a "Muslim" meal. Not the other way around. H
152 Haveric : RJ -- thanks for the correction, I'll go back and edit my post!
153 Eg777er : Have any of you space-cadets actually read anything else on this "Silent Running" website? After all, their front-page proudly displays the banner: "I
154 Mjszanto : I am sure in that case the Emirates "offers meals which fit the Kosher requirements". So what is all the fuss about? Face it. Emirates is an Arab Airl
155 Fly_emirates : well, probably the F/A should have said that the reason behind not serving a kosher meal is that there isn't much demand for it! rather than mentionin
156 Danialanwar : Substitutes for Halal meals It is dangerous to substitute any meals for Halal meals, be it Kosher or Vegetarian ... because both methods allow for alc
157 Post contains images Mark_D. : Danialanwar-- P.S. Quote from the same website as the article: "If you are offended by strong right wing views and bad language, you should probably f
158 Haveric : What does the article have to do with EK's policy? No one here denies that EK has created a policy that discourages Jewish passengers from flying the
159 PiedmontGirl : Danialanawar: It is dangerous to substitute any meals for Halal meals, be it Kosher or Vegetarian ... because both methods allow for alcohol to be use
160 Post contains images Mark_D. : Haveric-- What does the article have to do with EK's policy? Exactly! What does it necessarily have to do with it? No one here denies that EK has crea
161 Trvlr : I don't know what's so hard for so many people to understand about Emirates' actions. They unquestionably reeked of close-mindedness and anti-semitism
162 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : "So why dont we talk about anti-arabism on ElAl and US carriers? How do they get treated?" Let us not forget what was happening after 9/11. Muslim wom
163 Garnetpalmetto : "no one forces anyone to fly EK, and no one should force EK to serve Kosher.... " You know, if you substituted words here, you'd be defending segregat
164 PiedmontGirl : Garnetpalmetto: You know, if you substituted words here, you'd be defending segregation in the South. "No one forces Blacks to dine at the Woolworth's
165 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : If it is a reason that you want: "well, probably the F/A should have said that the reason behind not serving a kosher meal is that there isn't much de
166 Ek345 : ...as has been explained REPEATEDLY in this thread, a Halal meal does not meet the requirements of Kashrut -- IT IS NOT Kosher. -Haveric Ok so if a Ha
167 Garnetpalmetto : Nonetheless, EmiratesA345, the flight was catered out of MEL and his request for a kosher meal created a demand that could easily have been fulfilled.
168 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : You can't possibly know if it would or would not create problems. (Either could I) It is possible that in their contracts with the catering company, E
169 Garnetpalmetto : What is stopping a Jewish person from eating a vegitarian meal instead of a Kosher meal??? Because a vegetarian meal isn't necessarily kosher.
170 Rjpieces : EmiratesA345, you are beating around the bush. Why do you try to justify Emirates clear position towards Jews? Between the station manager in Australi
171 Mark_D. : Ripieces-- Between the station manager in Australia, this kosher meal story, and my general dislike towards regimes I will avoid Emirates. Well now we
172 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : "EmiratesA345, you are beating around the bush. Why do you try to justify Emirates clear position towards Jews? Between the station manager in Austral
173 Capt078 : EmiratesA345: while i am extremely displeased with the leaderships of both bush and sharon, their ascension to power was done democratically, one thro
174 Mjszanto : This I will answer. Why are you criticizing the Bush admin, when the Syrian government wiped out a whole Syrian city of 30,000 people and occupied Leb
175 Capt078 : Mjszanto: i am an american jew, just to give you a bit of background. first, i dislike the sharon government because i believe that it is too oppressi
176 Mjszanto : Nothing has yet convinced me that Emirates is truly at fault here, and I haven't judged this airline based on the original post. However, what I've be
177 Capt078 : Mjszanto: i agree with you that i will not allow the original post to dissuade me from flying emirates. it has always been a goal of mine to visit dub
178 Rjpieces : EmiratesA345, well I'm glad you are anti-American as well. The two are grouped together more and more often. " In fact its good, because then there wo
179 Mjszanto : I am rather well informed about foreign policy. The most articulate supporter of the war to free Iraq is a Democrat, James Woolsey, former head of the
180 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : I'm not anti-American. I think you should stop your whining sometime soon. Its getting very boring and repetitive. Because I do not agree with what th
181 Mariner : I think things are getting a bit out of hand. There are two issues here: Should Emirates (or any airline) be obliged to serve kosher meals on flights
182 Capt078 : Mjszanto: i am not sure if you were responding to my comments or others, but let me respond to yours. first of all, if you were responding to my comme
183 Post contains images Rjpieces : Capy078,where do you teach?
184 Mjszanto : Mariner, If we are to believe the exact account of the story, then it is very amiguous about whether it is innocent as you suggest or not. However, I
185 Post contains images Capt078 : i teach in boston, though i prefer not to say where specifically. one of the true assets of this communication venue is its absolute anonymity
186 Mariner : Mjszanto: I don't think it is ambiguous at all - I think the guy's motives are highly suspicious. As I said, there is almost no public restaurant in N
187 Mjszanto : Capn, My post was unclear in two ways. 1. I did not mean to suggest you were partisan. 2. I meant to say that the suicide bombings that defeated Peres
188 Capt078 : Msjzanto: i have heard rumors about the peres assassination, but nothing more. my interest was solely to point out that too often people think everyth
189 Mark_D. : Mariner I think these last two posts of yours were very well-stated. The last half-dozen or so of yours too, Capt078. Cheers. Mjszanto despite your lo
190 Alpha 1 : Secondly, they're right. No, they're wrong, Emirates. Unless you advocate and support discrimination based on someone's dietary requests? why would Je
191 Mjszanto : Peres was not assasinated. Rabin was assasinated, and Peres took over. However, Peres is the architect of the Oslo accords to begin with. Iran and Syr
192 RJpieces : I really hope this story leaks into the mainsteam US press.
193 Concord977 : I really hate it when the aviation theme of this forum gets lost in all of the politics, and constant feuding among people who really don't know each
194 Mjszanto : I worked with known facts in this regard. There is nobody in the State Department who would argue on this. If you have a different history, than you a
195 Mjszanto : Mark_D., If you knew so much about international affairs, you would have known that Peres was not assasinated, and not chosen to criticize my post.[Ed
196 Mjszanto : Username: Concord977 From United States, joined Jan 2004, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply: 193 Posted Mon Jan 5 2004 05:54:04 UTC+1 and read 44 times: I really
197 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : No, they're not wrong. They do not get enough passengers who request Kosher meals for them to make it a part of their menu. Its as easy as that. As fo
198 Ek345 : The guy says he is politically aware - he must know there has been considerable tension between the Arab States and the State of Israel for over half
199 Alpha 1 : No, they're not wrong. They do not get enough passengers who request Kosher meals for them to make it a part of their menu. Its as easy as that. WHOOS
200 EK345 : Yes, keep up that anti-semitism! Well done! Now, let's destroy Israel. (dripping with sarcasm)-Alpha 1 If you don't like it, don't fly it. Simple. EK3
201 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : Is there something wrong with you brain? They do not serve it, because there are not enough passengers who request it. Not because they don't like Jew
202 Alpha 1 : Not because they don't like Jews.. They and the whole Arab world don't like Jews. That IS half the problem, you're just too blind to see it, or you si
203 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : That is bullshit, and you know it. Its funny how you didn't back that one up as you claim you always do. I have many Jewish friends and many Arab frie
204 PiedmontGirl : Emirates345: Just because the USA is in love with Israel and caters to their every need doesn't mean every country is going to. Can't let that one pas
205 RJpieces : You know, I haven't wanted to say this, but you are fast approaching the anti-semitic line. See there you go again. You are now relating a passenger a
206 Rjpieces : PiedmontGirl, they use their hidden bigotry and flat out hatred as an excuse for why change isn't happening. The Middle East has some serious problems
207 Snoopy : Can someone explain to me what this has to do with airlines and flying? I may be thick, but I just don't see it.... How long is this misinformed BS (o
208 Ek345 : See there you go again. You are now relating a passenger asking for a kosher meal to Israeli politics. I agree. EmiratesA345, Rjpieces, and Alpha 1 le
209 Garnetpalmetto : Can someone explain to me what this has to do with airlines and flying? I may be thick, but I just don't see it.... What does this have to do with air
210 Post contains images Mark_D. : There's so much zealotry about this from among the last half-dozen or so posters.. none of whom know whether the story -- or the writer's identity-- i
211 Post contains images SV777KiloAlpha : DEAR ALL, According to EK policies (from a friend who works for them in DXB), they DO NOT have any policy that discriminates against any religion or
212 Post contains images Solnabo : I want China Eastern to serve me swedish meatballs and pickled heering.... Can you see the ironi in this topic? Michael/SE
213 Solnabo : If U cant , go hug a tree.....
214 OD720 : On the issue of stamps: An American friend of mine was visiting Lebanon, Jordan and Israel at the same time. When he arrived to Israel after Lebanon a
215 Airmale : I just want to know had a Muslim been denied a Halal meal on Virgin Atlantic or Singapore Airlines(they serve them)would you all have defended his cas
216 Garnetpalmetto : Therefore, please STOP the sleazy attempts by some of you to slander the image of EK just because it is a successful ARAB airline. I wouldn't care if
217 Joni : It's not just the UAE, I hear that trying to enter Israel can be an unpleasant experience if your passport contains stamps from entering Syria, Egypt
218 Post contains images Dasheighty : I dont get any meals on flights that i travel on... I have to bring my own. Nice to know someone is at least getting fed
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