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"Pax Not Allowed To Congregate Near Toilets"  
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5294 posts, RR: 61
Posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10348 times:

The FAA has apparently sent a directive to a number of European carriers asking them to include the following in their pre-flight announcement on flights to/from the United States:

"The US State Department demands that passengers are not allowed to congregate in groups around the toilets nor anywhere in the aircraft."

What next? Having to ask permission before going to the toilet?

Standard Warning: Stick to the topic. Avoid political/religious discussion which should be saved for Non Aviation/other websites.


[Edited 2004-01-04 19:06:59]


Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
113 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10277 times:

U.S. carriers must make the same P.A. as well

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineObithomas From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10274 times:

Do you have a source for this information, please? Thanks.

User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10246 times:

Further evidence that the world, and the US in particular, has gone mad.

User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10248 times:

Does it really cause that much of an inconvenience? Honestly... You'd think that with the way people on here bitch about how much they want their IFE they wouldn't mind watching all 200 mind-numbing channels for the whole flight...

I'm sure that if there were a few passengers in the back of the aircraft by the FA's they wouldn't have a problem at all. Especially if the FA's could see that the passengers weren't Middle Eastern. The majority of FA's are so laid back, but only tell passengers to do stuff (ie: sit down, not congregate in the back, etc.) if they feel uneasy for whatever reason.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

Fly777UAL:

I have never read anything anywhere that says "Middle Eastern" only.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineObithomas From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10216 times:

Especially if the FA's could see that the passengers weren't Middle Eastern

I'm curious how this is determined? I mean, if John Sununu and Ralph Nader were together at the back of the plane, would this be a problem? What if Casey Kaseem joined them?  Smile


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10197 times:

Yes, Trident, we've all gone mad. Shit, man...if it saves one life or calms the nerves of even one fearful flyer not to see people stand around in a group together, is it all that bad. Are you so opposed to that?

Everyone seems so unbelievably self-centered when it comes to anything having to do with security. If it inconveniences you in the least, then it's obviously just another "ridiculous idea" that doesn't need to be in place beacuse it prevents you from hanging around the lavs with 9 of your friends for half an hour, or causes you to remove your shoes and go through security a second time.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10184 times:

Especially if the FA's could see that the passengers weren't Middle Eastern.

Quite a strong accusation... So people from the ME are bad and evil when some of them are chatting with eachother? It's even in their culture to come together to chat.

Remember that an Islamist is not bad at all, we are talking about the extremists over here. And the prove that those fundamentalists can not be compared with the normal Islamist is that, during the recent bomb blasts, a lot of Islamists have died.

And when you think you are smart with saying that ME people may not gather together in the galley, the terrorists will be even smarter to put people with a non-ME look on the aircrafts if they really want to do something.

Frederic


User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10170 times:

I would say the world has not "GONE MAD" but gotten "MAD" and is sending a clear message that, if at all humanly possible 9-11 will not happen again!

My opinion in a nutt shell.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineTeahan From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 5294 posts, RR: 61
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10169 times:

Source. It is being discussed on Flyertalk, PPRUNE, several aviation Yahoo Groups and Cabin Crew websites.

I wonder how they expect to deal with queues in front of the lavatories? Or Virgin Atlantic?s bar?

Next people will be given random seats to ensure they are not seated next to anyone they know rendering them unable to plot anything as a group.

Jeremiah



Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
User currently offlineTrident2e From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10147 times:

FLY777UAL - what an outburst! The reason I think we've all gone mad is that if you think about it logically what possible benefit can this ridiculous rule bring? If there are a group of terrorists on board it's already far too late to save anyone. Having a rule that prevents them from congregating anywhere is just plain stupid.

User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10114 times:

How surprising this comes from 'the country of freedom'! Big grin

Freedom indeed, but when this goes on, cameras will be placed everywhere to keep an eye on everyone; when you do something 'suspicious' in an airport you will be arrested etc etc, all this in 'free' world...


User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

Tri:

To be very honest and not being able to get into detail. Yes that rule could make or break an incident. It is really not the silly when you know all the facts of things that are going on. I do wish I could tell you more. But please trust me on this one.

Safe Flying Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineSWAFA30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10100 times:

At WN we have been doing this for months. We handle it very simply. You can stand around in the back galley, what little there is of it, all you want. You just can't stand in front of the cockpit door/forward galley area. It is a pain to continue to have to harp on it, people naturally want to form lines for the forward lav or stand in the galley/entry area to stretch on long flights. However, when we explain that the security of the flight deck must be protected at all costs and people milling around in that area make this difficult, they seem much more willing to comply. As is the case with all regulations, you tend to get much more compliance if a logical explanition accompanies the rule as a opposed to an arbitrary "because we said so".



User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10098 times:

Not a strong accusation at all.

Ever heard the expression "one bad apple spoils the whole barrell"? That's exactly what's happened thanks to Mohammed Atta, etc.

I'm not just an ignorant American, Freddy, and I know thanks to common sense, as well as daily interaction with many Middle Easterners, that an Islamist is not bad at all.

All I'm trying to say is that Flight Attendants are unbelievably good judges of character and behavior onboard. If they smell anything wrong, then they'll be all over it. Middle Eastern passengers attract a certain kind of attention to themselves no matter what. It's just the whole stigma from 9/11. If there are 2 Middle Eastern passengers onboard a flight filled with 98 other WASPs, then they're obviously going to attract some attention. It's the same as when you see a hick walking through Saks or Nieman Marcus. Would be like seeing Donald Trump shopping for clothes at Walmart.

Of course the terrorists would be smart to put people who don't look ME on the planes...and I'm sure they've thought about that before. Like I said earlier, FA's are very good with behavior. If you don't look the part, you can sure tell that you're going to act the part. I doubt that the hijackers on 9/11 were calm individuals...not hard to suspect that shit might be going down.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineAlekToronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10076 times:

Very sad if this is indeed true..
I believe that all security should be taken care of before the flight takes off...I guess some people here would rather have all passengers tied down to their seats during flight, never speaking, walking, doing anything...remain quiet and docile..wouldn't the airlines love that??
If I cant get up during a 14 hour flight and stretch my legs and chat with friends..then it has gone to far...
Its not about being "self-centered" as some have mentioned...its about being Human!

cheers!


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10073 times:

Tri--if you went through or knew about onboard safety training, you would be able to see exactly why it can and does make the difference.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineSabena 690 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10055 times:

That's a whole other point, FLY777UAL, now I understand you better...

But I still find it's going a bit far.

Frederic


User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10046 times:

Alex-

Get real. Being human is fine. Getting up on a 14 hour flight is fine. They're not chaining you to your seat, the announcement is just meant so that you and a gaggle of other people don't get up and chit chat for half an hour. If you get up with a couple of other people and talk for a few minutes, that's fine.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L


User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Once again the crew is stuck in the middle. We can only do our job as perscribed by the F.A.A. and T.S.A. Also, to do our best to protect everyone on board to the best of our ability using the tools we have.

Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineAlekToronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9963 times:

It is amazing how easily Airline Staff is offended when passengers (customers) are upset by more and more stupid rules.
Don't get me wrong - I am 100 percent for strict airline security before and during the flight - however this rule is just stupid. If I want to stand up during the flight with my parents, kids, etc...why should that be suspicious? I mean I was already cleared by TSA..CAPS, strip searches, etc...why is there so much suspicion in the air for petes sake!

I know that being a Flight Attendant is no piece of cake..and nowhere near the job it used to be...but FLYGUYCLT..realistically what can the F/A's do in case of a hijacking??? You guys get self defense training? If not I think that should be part of the training..curently against a group of terrorists you guys are toast.

Bottom line - terrorists plan - if they REALLY want to hijack a plane they will train to get around the "safeguards" and just do it.


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9933 times:

9-11 will happen again, I can guarantee it. It will happen one day every year. But the tragedies of 9-11-01 will Never happen again as long as security is tight. 9-11 will happen this year as it has in 02, 03.

User currently offlineFlyguyclt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 537 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9918 times:

Alek,

There are lots of things I and my co workers can do. I have not seen anywhere that YOU and YOUR children can't get up and stretch. Even walk around the airplane a little. But if you get up, and other passengers get up, and start a social hour in one part of the aircraft. Then that is what the rule is for. Make sense now ?

Thanks for your side. I hope you can understand the other side.


Safe Flying  Smile



Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
User currently offlineYWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1146 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 9905 times:

I flew into and out of Honolulu from Vancouver a few days ago and heard nothing of this sorts.


Contact Winnipeg center now on 134.4, good day.
25 Teahan : @BR715-A1-30: 9-11 will happen again, I can guarantee it. It will happen one day every year. Right and you can tell this how? @YWG: This is only 2-3 d
26 FLY777UAL : 9/11 -- the day itself-- not terrorism -- will happen each day. It'll happen on September 11th, 2004, September 11th, 2005, etc. Kinda threw me for a
27 Post contains images BA757 : I don't tend to congregate around toilets anyway... can get you some odd looks! Adam
28 FLY777UAL : Here's the real question, though: what is to become of the mile high club? Ahh, but they didn't say you couldn't congregate in the toilets! F L Y 7 7
29 Airbus_A340 : So what about the ideas like on Singapore Airlines new A345 Leadership where passengers are supposed be able to meet and talk. I would guess other air
30 Skymonster : I can see it now... Hmmmm. I want to go to the bathroom, but there's someone in the lav, and someone standing outside... Best cross my legs and wait a
31 Ahlfors : This announcement was made on an Air Jamaica flight from Grenada to JFK that I was on New Year's day, but a similar announcement was NOT made during m
32 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Congregate does not mean, no waiting to use the lav. Safe Flying
33 Carduelis : Has nobody in the US authorities ever experienced the early morning loo queue(s) before/after breakfast and before landing on overnight transatlantic
34 FLY777UAL : We had heard that the announcement was being made on foreign carrier flights coming into the United States. F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
35 Artsyman : There is a very obvious reason for this ruling, and it does actually make sense. The reason for it is that the Federal Air Marshals do not always get
36 Mjszanto : I think this is kind of annoying, but I can't oppose it, because it sounds like a somewhat reasonable security precaution.
37 GLAguy : Flyguyclt: "Congregate does not mean, no waiting to use the lav." I'm not trying to be smart here, but what exactly does it mean in this context? Most
38 Post contains images VSGirl : The few times I have flown charter flights with Virgin Atlantic, our F/As have asked this from the passengers anyway, of course with out the US State
39 Teahan : @Artsyman: But on non-US airlines (which are being given this directive), there are curtains seperating classes anyway.
40 Post contains images Flyguyclt : Artsyman: Thank you very much. And welcome to my respected user list. Sometimes a rule does not make sense to some. But if you truly know the reason w
41 Artsyman : But on non-US airlines (which are being given this directive), there are curtains seperating classes anyway. **** The Non US carriers cannot have the
42 Espion007 : con·gre·gate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (knggr-gt) tr. & intr.v. con·gre·gat·ed, con·gre·gat·ing, con·gre·gates To bring or come together in a
43 Post contains images GLAguy : Next message from the FAA: The US State Department DEMANDS the following: 1. Random seating on aircraft only - no pre-selection by pax cos they might
44 Artsyman : In what way is it becoming ridiculous ? I can hear you saying it, but it really just appears as an over reaction. Like the hysteria over the recent fl
45 PiedmontGirl : Folks, all this amounts to is not having a bunch of people -- any people -- gathered up in front of the cockpit door. It should be reasonably obvious
46 Yyz717 : A lot of pilots have been telling their flight attendants for over two years now not to let the passengers congregate in front of the cockpit door or
47 Aviatortj : Right, but what is the reason for cancelling them? Are there problems with the security searches prior to the flight?
48 Slamclick : The terrorists have very few effective weapons in their bag of tricks. The most effective is being unpredictable. Being predictable is the worst flaw
49 Carduelis : Artsyman Here we go - from what you are saying in your earlier thread, the Air Marshalls are already dictating to the airlines and other aviation auth
50 ANstar : I was on a QF 737 flight last week, and went to the forward toilets. There was already 1 person waiting, and the FA ran out in front of me in a panic
51 Post contains images Skymonster : For what its worth, my previous post that mentions getting up several times but having to go back to the seat so as not to break a "congregating" rule
52 Post contains images GLAguy : The quote from the starter post of this thread: "The US State Department demands that passengers are not allowed to congregate in groups around the to
53 Teahan : @GLAguy, Exactly. While not hanging around near the front of the aircraft is fairly widely accepted since 2001, this new directive clearly states anyw
54 Rongotai : When you read this thread and many others it becomes increasingly obvious that there is a strong correlation as follows: North Americans, who experien
55 Artsyman : Carduelis You seem to be focusing on things that are not really my issues. I have no doubt about BALPA's position on this, and do not disagree with it
56 Slamclick : GLAguy Okay, after a more careful reading of that I have to wonder if the quote was really accurate because it does sound like it would be impossible
57 Post contains links Carduelis : Thanks for your further comments. Whilst there may be terrorists out there, all of the post 9/11 disruption has been from politically motivated goverm
58 Post contains images GLAguy : Slamclick I too hope that it's a misquote, because taken literally it has rather extreme implications. Artsyman Maybe I've picked things up the wrong
59 Skymonster : Artsman said: The world today is not the same world as before 9.11, and things cannot be as they were before. This is just a reality of the world toda
60 Artsyman : That's just the same crap you read on here. The implication is that the sky is falling and that America is now a Police state, and that all civil libe
61 Skymonster : Yeah, and that "crap" signifies the difference in opinions. You guys see it as acceptable change, a large number of us see it as un-necessary. Instead
62 Artsyman : Andy, you hit it on the nail. It is a difference of opinion, I just find a trend that in the majority of cases, the people complaining don't even fly
63 Post contains images ScottishLaddie : I've got a great idea. You go up to the toilet and take a ticket with a number on it and when the number on your ticket shows on the screens that will
64 ZSSNC : Perhaps airlines should just change the flight attendant call button ("cabin attendants" never liked them anyway since they meant work) to a toilet qu
65 C17Glbm : Whether letting pax get up and "congregate" or not lies in the eye of the beholder. Certainly not a bad rule for the F/As to get the job done quickly.
66 Tolosy : Ok a safe flight has no price, but please..... You have never done a seat in with some friends on a plane, played cards.. So it's over...
67 Panamair : This whole issue has been blown WAY out of proportion. This announcement has been made consistently on AA and UA in the past year or even longer and h
68 Singapore_Air : "The US State Department demands that passengers are not allowed to congregate in groups around the toilets nor anywhere in the aircraft." Oh what cra
69 Artsyman : "Both new cabins feature specially designed areas for passengers to socialize and stretch their legs." ****** Standing and talking is different than b
70 B747-4U3 : I think this rule is ridiculous and a further attempt to remove people's civil liberties. On aircraft, many people do have a call of nature during the
71 Post contains images Solnabo : Funny, but this topic reminds me of Goldie Hawn in a thrillermovie, cant recall the name of it, but she says: "Be afraid........be VERY afraid!!!" Mic
72 C17Glbm : B747-4U3 I totally agree with you. I think that certain government officials are at least in a few issues trying to make up for our gross 9/11 failure
73 Jhooper : Couldn't the constitutionality of this requirement be tested? I mean, since when did the government have the right to take away our "freedom to peacef
74 Redngold : ANNOUNCEMENT: Coming soon to your favorite airline... Departure Diapers! Guaranteed to keep you clean and dry until you reach your destination! *sigh*
75 RiverVisualNYC : One of the pleasures of flying a European airline is they don't treat you like a potential hijacker if you want to stretch your legs....If this is tru
76 Post contains links Singapore_Air : Air New Zealand spokesman Mark Street said he could not confirm whether the directive had been received, but even if it had, the airline would not dis
77 Post contains links Singapore_Air : A US demand for airline passengers to be banned from queuing for the toilet would need to be handled sensibly by Qantas, Acting Prime Minister John An
78 NWAFA : swafa30 I always like it when your (WN) Flight Deck crew makes that announcment, it means more than when we the FAs make it
79 Jgardiner : It's annoying and short-sighted regulations like this that are going to make people avoid the US and deliberately route through other countries. Ultim
80 NWAFA : Oh please, that will happen .......NOT!
81 ELAL 744 : To all my dear friends on this site (and around the world), It is very easy for you (and me) to complain about security measures: “No racial profili
82 MD88Captain : ELAL744. That would be a great new thread. Lets hear some solutions instead of complaints.
83 Slamclick : Before you get too far afield with the "unconstitutional" arguments let's take a look at the preamble. This is what they wrote before they even starte
84 Jgardiner : "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), His
85 Mog : I have always wondered why passengers who use the toilets on airplanes do not pay a surcharge or fee for doing so. Considering that in the airline ind
86 Bahadir : FLY777UAL, the only thing I respect about you is your title.. So, I guess OKC bombers spoiled all the Christians , eh? How about the *sshole who kille
87 Sydscott : This is a ridiculous announcement by the US government. I dont see why they should enforce compulsory paranoia on all the rest of the worlds airlines
88 Sydscott : Article on the issue and reaction from Qantas. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Qantas staff blue over loo-
89 Obithomas : As a matter of curiosity, how would any American official know whether there was congregation or not in a foreign airline? Since the word is clearly n
90 Danialanwar : Hmmm, can we get pee-slots on check-in???? Anyway, does this affect Singapore Airline's new lounges in their A345 on nonstops into the US?
91 Industrybuff : ********************************************************** I cant wait to hear the following news headline : *****************************************
92 David T : And the "no gathering around toilets" is why my 40,000 miles a year has gone down to ZIPPO! No, not Zip Air or a "unique lighting instrument"... Zip a
93 F9Fan : On F9, they request that only one person wait in line for the forward restroom, "Per FAA regulations." They do not limit the number of passengers wait
94 Jeffrey1970 : I can just see this now, airlines will replace the bathrooms with more seats ha ha ha I am just kidding. I guess airport bathrooms will be even more b
95 Carduelis : Another version from today's UK 'The Times' newspaper:- January 08, 2004 BA defends rights to queue for the loo at 20,000ft By Ben Webster, Transport
96 Jhooper : I guess I'll have to use those in-seat phones when I want to chat w/ my buddies on board a flight! (you can call other seats, by the way). What if I'm
97 Aerokiwi : This has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Not only impractical and nearly impossible to enforce, but wouldn't it breach human rights
98 Ckfred : I've heard the announcement not to congregate near the lav next to the cockpit, but not an announcement to avoid any sort of congregating. I've yet to
99 Airlinelover : Further evidence that the world, and the US in particular, has gone mad. I wish you'd think before posting.. It's not madness at all. Think about it..
100 GKirk : Wouldnt this cause more DVT if they couldnt get up to stand up for a couple of minutes?
101 Post contains images Fritzi : Your not allowed to congregate near the toilet, but what if two people congregate inside of the door to the toilet? Maybe you could be charged of havi
102 Post contains images TWISTEDWHISPER : "The US State Department demands that passengers are not allowed to congregate in groups around the toilets nor anywhere in the aircraft." Funny, I th
103 BadischerGreif : Not to congregate anywhere in a sardine can? I see wide seat pitches coming... Prost!
104 Munich : The solution I have seen in an other forum! Flight Attendant, 47Alfa with you requesting clearance for toilette 4Bravo" "47Alfa, Roger, eye contact, p
105 Fly_emirates : does this announcement involve the first class Lavatories, or the rear Lavatories? if the this announcement was for the front lavatories that are besi
106 Post contains links Singapore_Air : SIA bans toilet queues on flights to US SINGAPORE - Singapore Airlines said on Thursday it will comply with a controversial new US government directiv
107 Post contains links and images Flyingbronco05 : HAHAHA this was already discussed too : http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/1336562/
108 Flairport : so, does this mean no lines at toliets? (in a way thats good...first come first serve!) what if your a little kid and you want your mommy and daddy to
109 Post contains links and images PJS800 : Anyone know what Singapore is going to do when they start flying SIN - LAX non-stop, 18 hours is a long time not to get up and stand up for a while. W
110 KaiGywer : I flew four different legs on NW this week, and NONE of them included anything about the lavs in their announcements, except that the front is for fir
111 Jhooper : will this continue now that we're back at YELLOW?
112 F27 : The law suits will hit soon and the US government will be named in them all as well as the airline concerened
113 Ushermittwoch : I wonder when the US will ban all foreigners from flying into or inside of the US. It will also be interesting to see how people will get DVT left and
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