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Frontier A330's  
User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

Hot rumor from the flightline: Frontier looking at A330's (not sure of variant) to open up HNL flying from DEN and/or LAX....maybe Caribbean. Once again, just a hot rumor in pilotland, nothing official. My personal thought on the subject:

While it would be great to see the fantastic F9 colors on a wide body...and while I think DEN-HNL would be very successful year-round (high loads, bad yields, but it would still be a popular service)....spending the $$$ to integrate such a huge aircraft into the fleet would be a little too much for us to handle at the current time. However, as history has shown, it is not totally out of the question....

Many of the smaller, regional carriers which have purchased wide bodies in the past did not have much success with them overall. PeoplExpress didn't last much longer after it got the 747, PSA didn't find success in using the L1011's (although honestly the intra-California market was not well suited for the plane), and Northeastern got a little too much it could handle when it leased some A300's back in the early 80's.

I think F9 would be wise in just sticking to an all narrow body fleet until they build up enough connecting services out of DEN/LAX to consistently fill those big boys.


Steve/MSY

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePBIflyguy From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 248 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5247 times:

I think F9 is going to have their hands full with their new focus at LAX.

Doesn't UA have service to HNL from DEN? Does F9 really want to take UA on in that market?

But, as you say, a brand new A330 with a porpoise on its tail would be a great sight!



User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25428 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5127 times:
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Ahhh, this year's rumor.

Twelve months ago, the rumor was that Frontier was going to skip the A320 and go straight to the A321.

All we know for sure is that they may - stress may - order the A320. There is a privision in the Airbus contract for it.

But hey, I agree - it would look great on any big 'bus.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDc10guy From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 2685 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5072 times:

They should pick up some of the ex- CX or IB A340-600's ....


Next time try the old "dirty Sanchez" She'll love it !!!
User currently offlineFunFlyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

Please dont make me VOMIT.

You really think that F9 colors would look good on any plane not to mention the A330.


PLEASE



Who cares about status?
User currently offlineNWAFA From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1893 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

If F9 does HNL that WILL be the end of them! They can not handle wide body flying and that DEN-HNL market is not in huge demand.


THANK YOU FOR FLYING NORTHWEST AIRLINES, WE TRULY APPRECIATE YOUR BUSINESS!
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

There have been rumors of A330s/340s at Frontier since at least 1999. The thought/understanding by many employees is that if/when United were to be hurting very badly (such as it is now), Frontier could get these Airbus widebodies and start up flights to United's highest yielding destinations -- Tokyo, London, Frankfurt, etc.

It does seem like a good idea...but do I think it'll ever happen? Nope.


User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25428 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4904 times:
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NWAFA:

I thought you said that NWA was going to polish off Frontier?

Flyf15:

In 1999, Frontier had not ordered their first Airbus. Everyone - including F9 management - believed they would be going with Boeing.

So why would they have even thought about the A330/A340?

This is a rumor, a silly rumor. Nothing more.

FunFlyer:

You should seek medical help for that vomiting condition of yours.

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineVafi88 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Funflyer : Frontier's livery is original, classy, and fun all at the same time.

As for the A330, I think they will order the A321, but we have to wait a few more years for them to pick up some A330s...



I'd like to elect a president that has a Higher IQ than a retarted ant.
User currently offlineMikephotos From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2923 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4850 times:

Frontier's livery looks great on the 744 so I'm sure it'll look good on the A330:

http://www.mikephotos.net/dea/viewphoto.asp?id=00113

Enjoy!

Mike


User currently offlineMcg From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 821 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Could F9 serve HNL from LAX with ETOPS A319s? In this way they could service Hawaii and substantially increase the value of their frequent flyer program without introducing an additional aircraft type.

User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Mariner, I must have the date incorrect then, it was right around when they first ordered the Airbus aircraft that I first heard it. And yes, it is definately just a rumor that has been floating around for quite some time at that airline with some of the employees.

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4689 times:

While F9 may someday initiate service to HNL, right now would not be the right time. They are focusing on building their LAX focus city and adding routes out of DEN. The venture into ANC could be a prelude to additional international service, but I think it is far more likely to be service to North American and Carribean routes.

HNL can wait until F9 can fill the connecting traffic. I think they'll be able to support one or two DEN-HNL flights with O&D and connections when they've gotten a bit bigger and have a better balance sheet (not that it's particularly bad now). Just by their lower fares, they should be able to steal at least a small amount of UA's market.

But this year? I highly doubt it.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

As Cher said so eloquently on Will and Grace, "Are you kidding me with this?"


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1655 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Although it does sound far fetched, there could be some truth. I don't think DEN-HNL would work because as previous posters pointed out, its low yields and a lot of competition w/ United. BUT, what about this scenario: DEN-LGW, or DEN-CDG? UAL is not doing nonstops Paris (London anyone? I'm not sure) Imagine if they started nonstops to these cities, w/ good fares, advertised it up and down the west coast for the connecting pax, there might be a market here. FLYF15 also mentioned Tokyo....that is a possibility to. There is little competition in the way of US carriers on such a route. And again if they advertise to the spoke cities this service, that helps all the more.

Look how Virgin came in and made itself competitve against BA...same possible success story here.


User currently offlineSprxflySWA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

As I have learned from many pilotland rumors, don't bet on it. Ever.

User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

I've heard that F9 is considering expanding in the Caribbean. I don't think they would use A330s though. If they added the A330 series, they would need additional training and spare parts storage. Both of these costs can add up, and F9 CEO Jeff Potter is very cost conscious. More likely would be adding A320 or A321 since they can use the spare parts from the A318 and A319, and the pilots wouldn't have to get a new type rating

If they do expand in the Caribbean, I suspect they would go for GCM, KIN, MBJ, NAS, FPO, SJU, STT, and STX. They could do other cities in the Caribbean if they did a focus city in TPA, MCO or FLL. It should be worth noting that F9 did receive "flag carrier" status from the USDOT, which gives F9 the right to fly over two hours (I think) outside US airspace, the right to fly between two international destinations, and the right to fly to Alaska and Hawaii. They just announced service to ANC, so getting flag carrier status was needed for that.

I've also heard they want to expand into BOS, DTW, or even PIT. I suspect they may also go for YYZ, YDL, YOW, YYC, YEG, or YVR before they even think about HNL or LGW.

F9Fan


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3414 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

Presently - not a chance of happening.
A few years from now - Maybe, only if they can convince UA that they are friends not enemies.


User currently offlineF9Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 698 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

By the way, UA and Norwegian Cruise Line signed an agreement where NCL will use UA on their cruise-air packages to Hawaii. They said they would use DEN as one of their gathering cities, and then go nonstop from DEN to HNL.

F9Fan


User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4302 times:

DELTAFLYER,
First off, pilots have nothing better to do on a 40 minute turn but think up some lame ass rumors like this.

Second, F9 could take west coast passengers and fly them to CDG or LGW?Why in the world would they do that when they could fly UA,VS,BA and such from LAX and SFO and go NONSTOP? HMMMM Sounds crazy but I would bet that wouldn't work for F9.

Third, go to JAPANS Narita on F9? They wouldn't stand a chance or make a ripple in that market like AA to JAPAN(nrt). You cant compete with NWA or UAL in that market.

And to see a widebody with that horrible paint scheme would be gross, it already looks like crap on a narrowbody.


UAL 777 CONTRAIL


User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4516 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

How does it look like crap?

I thinks its fun and unique. And not at all ugly. I love the animal tails!

If you ask me the current livery is an improvement over the old one...with the stylized titles.


User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4058 times:

Fun and Unique doesn’t sell in London, Paris, or Tokyo.... Name does! You cant rely on the good people of Denver to be able to fill the plane everyday! Frontier wouldn’t stand a chance if they started Denver to London... Is everyone forgetting that British Airways is operating the route from DEN-LHR? In addition Los Angeles to London is one of the most heavily traveled international routes in the World with AA, BA, NZ, UA, and VS!

Does anyone remember what happened to America West when they got the 747's from KLM and started from Phoenix/Las Vegas to Honolulu and Nagoya??? It could happen again with the same results!


LHR001


User currently offlineUAL777CONTRAIL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

LHR001,
I would love to see UAL get a slot for DEN-LHR, then BA would have some trouble. But we will never know the results will we.


UAL 777 CONTRAil


User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 991 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Although I don't think Frontier venturing into the long haul market at this stage, I think Frontier would be better of trying to take a relatively short term lease on some 767s than new 330s. They could test the market with a medium capacity aircraft, and if it works they could make more permanent arangements. Perhaps a contract like the Virgin-Air Atlanta deal would be a good place to start.

I think a better strategy for Frontier is to stick with what they are doing now.


User currently offlineKen4556 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Would not the 757 be a perfect plane to fly to HNL and Caribbean?

It has the range, good passenger numbers, ability to operate from the shorter runways in the islands, and they could probably get a good lease rate on them.



25 Flygirlhels : "Fun and Unique doesn’t sell in London, Paris, or Tokyo.... Name does! " And bmi is not fun and unique? Price is what will drive people.... Frontier
26 Rj777 : The day F9 gets any wide body plane will be the day WN goes under.
27 Post contains images EA CO AS : Would not the 757 be a perfect plane to fly to HNL and Caribbean? That's precisely what I was thinking. If F9 really wanted to get aircraft with longe
28 Post contains images DIA : Mariner: That A321 rumor was started by that F9 pilot. . .I know you remember. Now, to address this new rumor: probably an A330-200 by my guess. In t
29 NWAFA : Mariner I never said that NWA "would polish them off"..in the section that was asked what do you think will happen to the industry in 2004, I suggest
30 Lhr001 : United Airlines was rumored at starting Denver to London/LHR in the late 1990's when the 777 came online. United and British coming heading on would b
31 Mariner : NWAFA: Oh, I seem to remember you being quite negative about Frontier's future when they announced LAX/MSP and NWA retaliated. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe
32 PSU.DTW.SCE : Yeah, LAX-HNL probably one of the most over-served, low yield routes in existance.....
33 Luv2fly : News flash, I flew BA roundtrip DTW LHR DTW last year and there was no menus nor any pre departure drinks offered either way...... A amenity plastic b
34 Gigneil : Heh. Fun. Yes, if they wanted, they could serve HNL with their 319s. N
35 Frontiers4ever : Wasnt there a rumor back a while on this forum that a certain airline (B6) would begin serving HNL? Still havent seen that materialize. So probably no
36 Flygirlhels : "You dont see US airlines offer amenity kits, menus, or pre departure beverages on International flights do you?" Hmm... menus on United, amenity kits
37 Bistro1200 : Oh please let this happen. More gates for my ol' pal Ted after F9 folds. Maybe F9 can pick up some A330s cheap when USAir declares Ch 7. Frontier remi
38 DIA : Bistro1200 said: "Frontier reminds me of a star high school athlete, doing well in their own little universe and performing well against other 'school
39 Tjwgrr : ...."Many of the smaller, regional carriers which have purchased wide bodies in the past did not have much success with them overall. PeoplExpress did
40 Scottb : Nope, PeoplExpress started with a bunch of narrowbodies -- used 727's and 737's if memory serves correctly. I was gonna say, maybe Frontier could star
41 Sllevin : PeoplExpress started with virtually the littlest of narrowbodies -- 737-100's they got from Lufthansa...some of which flew with CO until just 4 or 5 y
42 UAL777CONTRAIL : bistro1200, Very good analogy, DIA not every major can be on top every time. UAL 777 CONTRAIL
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