Mckennasmall From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 249 posts, RR: 1 Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3482 times:
I find when it comes to middle eastern airlines you either get excellent service or you get horrible service. For example if you travel with PIA you will get ugly and not clean cabins and horrible service.
Mckennasmall From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3392 times:
When I talk about middle eastern airliners, I am talking about the regions near to it like India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Kazikstan and Cypruss. They are not actually middle eastern but follow under my points I have stated
Yegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1711 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3380 times:
Sri Lank, India, Pakistan are not considered Middle East by any stretch of immagination. I don;t think you can include these countries with the exception of Cyprus given its proximity.
Most of the actual "Middle Eastern" airlines have new fleets. That includes, Emirates, Qatar, Saudia, Gulf Air, Oman Air, MEA, Kuwait, Tunis, Air Maroc and they all offer excellent service and have impeccable safety records.
ALso, many of these airlines offer three-clas service which could never be offered on Air India, or Pakistan...
TLIMA From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3300 times:
Comparing the Middle East to South Asia is similar to comparing Southern Europe (France, Italy, Spain etc..) to countries in North Africa. Just because they are somewhat close to each other, they have NOTHING in common!
South Asian countries are completely different in all aspects to countries in the Middle East.
Different races, cultures, languages, skin complexion, foods, history....You name it, it's different and there is NO common bond or similarity whatsoever between the two regions!
It's a shame to see what people know (or don't know) when it comes to world geography....
Mckennasmall From Canada, joined Dec 2003, 249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3272 times:
I made a mistake. Sorry. I was just trying to show difference in service between high quality and low quality service in SOUTH ASIA and MIDDLE EAST. I have traveled with Emirates and PIA. I am sorry for trouble caused I thought that area was part of middle east. I have already put in suggestion for deletion and will start new forum K.
Ek345 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3208 times:
ALso, many of these airlines offer three-clas service which could never be offered on Air India, or Pakistan...-Yegbey01
ummm.... NO!!! man where did you get the idea that Air India could never possibly offer a 3 class service? Just for your info Air India does offer 3 classes of service just like any other carrier. and if you have any doubts still then here is the proof: http://www.airindia.com/page.asp?pageid=45
KHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1613 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3108 times:
Well the topic as what lies in what region is very subjective...for instance some human decided whats inthe Middle East for us, its not a divine desicion.
True technically Pakistan does not fall in the middle east but Pakistan has alot in common with alot of Middle East...infact it is Pakistan where they draw
the line from M.East to S.Asia.Iran,very much a middle eastern country, borders Pakistan and do you think Iran has nothing in common with Pak??!! There are countless people in Pakistan who trace their roots
back to Iran and not the mention the province of Balochistan which is shared between the two countries.Infact the history and trade of modern day Pakistan has intertwined with the middle east for as long as history is recorded.But the most important fact that unites Pakistan very deeply with alot of middle east is religion and that bond is often stronger then any other.... TLIMA you mentioned that its like comparing Southern Europe to N.Africa..no sir its not nearly as drastic....do you think that the countries in the Middle East itself are all very similar to each other?You think Lebonan and Yemen are very similar to each other or you think Israel and Kuwait share alot in common?I have alot of very close friends from Gulf(Saudi,Kuwait.etc) countries and frankly there is more in common(religion,culture,family values & the like) between them and i(Pakistan) then they have with Lebanon or Tunisia or i have with somone from Srilanka.The national language of Pakistan contains thousands of words of Persian and Arabic,not to mention that it is written in Arabic script also. So to say there is nothing in common,as you mentioned, is very far from the truth specifically in the case of Pakistan....
KHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1613 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
Yegbey01 ...can you care to explain how am i wrong and what part of wat i said is wrong?? I said Pakistan is not categorized in the Middle East so that resolves the Geography dispute...im just explaining despite it not being part of M.East what it has in common...so unless you can challenge that i dont understand what you mean to say by "Hey KHI747 you are so wrong"...
Tlima From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 78 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2936 times:
I do not want to beat a horse to death but I do not agree with some of your points . Pakistanis, Indians and Sri Lankans are not classified as Semitic or Middle Easterners. They are part of South Asia (Geographically) Just because Pakistan and the Middle East share a common religion for the most part, I still do not agree that Pakistan can be even be remotely considered being part of the Middle East.
Even though I do agree that countries within the Middle East are different like you stated (Yemen and Lebanon or Israel and Kuwait), they have a lot more in common than Yemen and Pakistan. Israel, no matter how different it is from the other countries, is still geographically in the Middle East. Just because it has a different language, it is still part of the region, the Middle East, and that is where the discrepancy lies.
Pakistan and Indonesia have the religion in common, does that mean that can be grouped together for comparison of a geographical area? I would hope not
No offense to anyone, but I know that a Pakistani, Indian or Sri Lankan would be treated very differently if he or she were in let's say, Saudi Arabia, then if another Arab was there.
Religion is perhaps important but it still does not determine who a person is, whereas a person's race does.
YYZ4RADD From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 131 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2904 times:
South Asians are treated worse than dogs in certain Arab countries. I know because I have seen arabs do it. I am not South Asian. Religion has no bearing on the way u are treated in the middle east.
But the humanity scale in the middle east is as follows.
Superior Being = British, American
Less Superior Being = Other Europeans and Canadians.
Medium Superior Being = "White" Arabs ( Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians) Iranians, Turks and of course Gulf Arabs, Kuwaitis, Emiraties, Saudis and other Gulf Arabs
Inferior Being = Malays, Indonesians, and other orientals.
Worse then Inferior Being = South asians (Pakistanis, Sri Lankans, Bangladeshis, Indians, etc)
Worst fo the worst Beings = Africans or anybody Black.
And by the way no Arabs try to justify and oppose what I have said on this forum because I know what I am talking about.
My father was a diplomat for a unspecifed country and I have lived in the middle east a very long time and have met all kinds of arabs from the Bedouin to the Shaikhs of the Utaiba tribes (those Saudis know who these are), the Shaikhs of Dhofar (Oman / Yemen), etc.
This is not a racist post or offensive. I am sure many of those who lived in the middle east will agree.
In the middle east even Salaries are treated give according to this scale. You can two doctors with the same qualifications who studied at the same university but if u r passport is different then u r pay is different and so are the benefits u get with the job. This is a fact.
Even the laws are different. If are person with a western passport breaks the law and their embassies and country of origin makes as little as a squeak then they are released without punishment. But if you are from a lesser country and u break the law, heaven forbid if they will let u out of the country alive even if you country makes a appeal to the UN Human rights tribunal.
The only thing is the so called Superior Beings are now treating the Arabs in the same manner they used to treat all others inferiors, and humiliating them in every step of the way. Such is the way of the Almighty, praise the lord !!!
People who dont belive me, ask any South Asian or East Asian or African what I am talkling about and judge for yourself.
I think there is a saying in the Islamic religion, it goes as follows. If a people dont change thier ways and obey the laws of God, then he will bring another people to do his bidding. Its what happening to the Arabs now.
KGAI From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2848 times:
I can back YYZ4RADD up on what he said.
I used to live in Bahrain, and we had a family friend who flew 767s for Gulf Air. He had an Indian passenger fall ill with appendicitis on his plane. He landed the plane at, IIRC, Abu Dhabi.
The local immigration officials barred the Indian from entering the country. The pilots argued with them for hours, while the man laid out in the airport, screaming, and eventually died after a couple hours.
OD720 From Lebanon, joined Feb 2003, 1923 posts, RR: 34 Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2817 times:
Even though this is not related to aviation but it's a good topic to discuss about. What YYZ4RADD says are mostly true. But I wouldn't agree that Arabs are now being punished for what they've done in the past.
As far as I know, things like this are not usually planned and reflect a certain trend in different cultures.
In my daily life, I try to give my full respect to people from the Indian subcontinent. I see a lot of Indians, Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans in my daily practice and treat them equal with every other person, be them Lebanese or Europeans. It really hurts me to see sometimes people harassing Indians for no reason.
Also, your classification is well worked too.
You also have to agree with Yegbey though, Arabs are not the only ones to blame for it. Some of it probably comes from the previous colonial powers in those regions. For example, they keep referring to me as "Sir" in every other sentence, the origins of which sounds British.
Airmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 372 posts, RR: 2 Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2781 times:
It depends from where you look at it, for example if you just take the Asian continent then, Pakistan and south Asia are not in the GEO/POLITICAL MIDDLE EAST, but if you look at Asia from the west and divide the continent in east/middle east/far east, then Pakistan and the other south as well as central Asian countries do fall in the not Geo/Politically identified region which can be called Middle East or Middle Asia to be precise.
Since there is a middle east than what is EAST? eastern Europe or all of Europe? that would be the case for those in America's so who descided to divide the regions into these categories?
Officially the middle east region extends from Iran to Egypt in some cases Libya and includes some other African countries, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco how ever do not fall into the middle east region in any way, the "middle east" has becoem synonomous with Arabs and their culture so thats why people including Iranian's and Turks who have somewhat Arab characteristics in them are included in the region as are Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco, which I will repeat again are not middle eastern, theyr'e Arab but North African or West African.
Please not that despite its close links with the middle east region but a European lifestyle Cyprus is considered European, though its not, Israel with its some whatt European lifestyle is vying for EU membership and some countries in Europe are actuually promoting this idea, so if Lebanon was non Arab do you think they would have carved a larger niche for Europe along with Cyprus and Israel?, infact had Turkey been non-muslim I'm sure the middle east map would have been quite different, making it limited to purely Arab/Muslim states.
So Mckennasmall you're right in a way because you saw Pakistan form that angle, i.e Middle Asia, but Pakistan is not middle eastern as such.
YYZ4RAD is so right, and I myself am feeling a hint of arrogance and pride from the middle eastern/Arab members here who are posing themselves as superior to other's, i.e Pakistani's and South Asian's, maybe "brotherhood" based on religious bonds is passe for you all, should we aslo see things that way, abandon the Palestinain cause, which has alway's been considered an "Arab issue" by the middle eastern countries and establish ties with Israel to our benefit, India did that, and Israel would love it too, any ways let me remind you of the prophets(peace be upon him) saying "No Arab is greater than non-Arab, and no non-Arab is greater than an Arab, you are all equal and brothers in Islam".
KGAI From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 120 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2696 times:
"Disagree with most of what has been said.
Indians/SriLankas.... whom I have worked with in Dubai, seem to consider themselves as a lower class of the society.
Even among themselves, there seems to be classes of hierarchy.
You don't see that among Arabs or any other soceities working in the Gulf."
Yes, Indians/Pakistanis/Sri Lankans/Bangledeshis can have a lot of class awareness, and the Indians and Pakistanis you see in the Gulf are mostly laborers from the lower class. I've noticed that Indians in the US are totally different.
But I disagree with the notion that Indians perceiving themselves as lower class leads to non-Indians treating them that way. That attitude pre-existed in the host countries.
Of course, being submissive re-enforces the behavior, but I don't think it's the cause.
25 YYZ4RADD: Methinks Yegbey01 is an Arab who tries to shift the blame on the others. I have nothing personal against you friend, just pointing out the obvious. Th
26 Yegbey01: Hey YYZ4RADD, why do you try to deny actual facts???? Even in India, labourers in their own country are treated like shit. My colleagues used to tell
27 Airmale: And what perverted delight are you getting out of the real facts of south Asian culture Yegbey01? I dont see yopu condemning it, instead your attitude
28 Yegbey01: Airmale, All I am saying, is that Arabs are not to be blamed for this. YYZ4RADD is trying to paint an entirely different picture by comparing third wo
29 KGAI: Yegbey01 You worked with Indians/SriLankas in Dubai, for what, 1 week?!? You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Yes, Indians are class co
30 Haveric: As usual, you all have left out El Al in your analysis of "Midde East airlines." Personally, I'd put them in the middle of the pack. Not up to the lev
31 KGAI: Several of the Gulf airlines, I know for sure Gulf Air and Emirates, uses a lot of foreign crew. You'll see a lot of far eastern Asians and Europeans
32 Yegbey01: Haveric, The question was about countries like India and Pakistan being part of the Middle East. Israel is in the very heart of the Middle East. For t
33 OD720: Haveric, EL AL is an airline from the Middle East but most of us would never be able to experience it. I also would guess that they have a good servic
34 KHI747: Well as to who is treated as what where depends alot of the socio-economic status of the person....The Pakistanis who work in the Gulf are almost enti
35 Hisham: And by the way no Arabs try to justify and oppose what I have said on this forum because I know what I am talking about. Whatever you say my lord. His
36 YYZ4RADD: The reason I said no no arabs say this is because.....it ends up boiling down to a defensive posture by many Arabs. I am not taking a higher position
37 Haveric: Israel does not get their planes for free from the US govenrment. Far from it. They buy only Boeings because it is a strongly encouraged gesture of th
38 Yegbey01: Havetic, As you know, El Al flies from YYZ to LAX. Prices are quite cheap actually. Usually cheaper than Air Canada or any other airline for that matt