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Alaska Airlines To Try For More DCA  
User currently offlineRydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 8
Posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Interesting proposed routings 1 stop DCA - JNU and DCA - FAI. The Seattle and Los Angeles markets should do quite well!
- R

Alaska Airlines Applies For Four More Daily Roundtrips To D.C.'s Reagan National

1/9/2004 3:25 p.m.
SEATTLE -- Alaska Airlines today applied for additional slots at Washington, D.C.'s Reagan National Airport, with the aim of adding two more daily nonstop roundtrips between Seattle and the nation's capital, and inaugurating service between Los Angeles and Reagan with two daily nonstop roundtrips.

Congress recently authorized creation at Reagan National of more "beyond-the-perimeter" slots -- slots reserved for flights serving cities that are more than 1,250 miles away from the nation's capital.

DOT will evaluate the proposals and review comments over the next two months and then award the slots in the spring. To register support for Alaska's application, contact DOT via the Web at http://dmses.dot.gov/submit and submit an online letter. The docket number needed to complete an entry is OST-2000-7181.

In 2001, Alaska secured a pair of these rare slots at DCA and used them to launch daily nonstop service to Seattle with same-plane, one stop service to Anchorage. Customer response was, and remains, overwhelmingly positive, and effectively launched Alaska's subsequent entries into other East Coast destinations -- Boston, New York/Newark, Miami, Orlando, and Dulles International in Northern Virginia.

"While competition for the new slots will be fierce, we think we're well positioned," said Alaska CEO Bill Ayer. "We know that the states of Alaska and California, and the West Coast generally, need and will support more service. Also, one of the considerations for awarding the slots is that the airline operates fewer than 10 roundtrips a day out of Reagan. We have just one right now."

Of the two new Seattle flights Alaska is proposing, one would be routed to provide same-plane, one-stop service to Fairbanks, and the other, on a seasonal basis, to Juneau. In addition, both new flights would be timed to offer connections to customers living in communities served by fellow Alaska Air Group company Horizon Air.

The proposed route from Los Angeles would provide the only nonstop service from California – and, specifically, the West Coast's largest city - to Washington, D.C.

Alaska plans to operate Boeing 737-700 aircraft on each of the proposed flights, and may add 737-900s to the mix at LAX over time.

Alaska and Horizon together serve 80 cities in Alaska, the Lower 48, Canada and Mexico. For reservations visit www.alaskaair.com. For more news and information, visit the Alaska Airlines Newsroom at http://newsroom.alaskaair.com.





You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Once again Alaska has completely overlooked the business community of Portland by not adding new service here..I sure hope another airline sees the value of the Portland market....

User currently offlineAA767400 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 2300 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5767 times:

Nice to see someone take over the gap that TW left, on the DCA-LAX route.


"The low fares airline."
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Yeah, this is one of TW was applied on their flight from DCA to LAX and didn't not make it either.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 4, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

TW did get it, Scotty. They only stopped flying the route because they went out of business.

N


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13248 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5724 times:
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Once again Alaska has completely overlooked the business community of Portland by not adding new service here..I sure hope another airline sees the value of the Portland market....

Since QX offers twice-hourly service PDX-SEA, local PDX customers have numerous options to connect to the existing SEA-DCA and twice daily SEA-IAD service.

Quite frankly, LAX-DCA (and a second SEA-DCA) offers much more upside than PDX-DCA does. Sorry, but it's the truth.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13248 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5682 times:
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TW did get it, Scotty. They only stopped flying the route because they went out of business.

Exactly, and they flew it quite profitably....not enough to offset the rest of their systemwide losses, though.

When TW went under, their LAX-DCA "beyond-the-perimeter" exemption for DCA went back into the hopper. AS applied for and was granted the DCA exemption, which was used to offer SEA-DCA nonstop service that was inaugurated on September 4, 2001.

Believe it or not, Senator Feinstein actually proposed creating a law that would require any carrier getting that exemption to use it solely for LAX-DCA, as she was appalled at the thought of losing her precious nonstop service.

When DCA was closed to air traffic following the 9/11 attacks, the service was moved to IAD. AS resumed DCA service once DCA was reopened, but not only kept the IAD service but added a second daily flight.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineRydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 851 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

EA CO AS

Are you on First Class? If so email me if you have time, Ry Mo will get you to me.....

-R



You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5624 times:

EA Co AS...If your theory is correct, Why does Alaska has any mainland flights out of Portland at all. Using your theory Horizon could shuttle all passengers from PDX every 1/2 to Seattle and from Seattle we could fly to what ever destinations Alaska flys out of Seattle...

User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

It's a good application. Alaska needs another Seattle flight (3 would be great) and a 2 flight pattern from LAX is a very nice application too. I think PDX would be a good run, but like EACOAS says, it would pull traffic from Seattle. I don't think Alaska overlooked it. It's just not the best opportunity for a very very limited commodity. If Alaska gets all 4 slot pairs, then hey, the next time the beyond perimeter is expanded, it might be an application for PDX. Good luck Alaska. Now for beyond perimeter for LaGuardia. Let's get on it Congress!  Big thumbs up

User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3326 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5528 times:

If i take it right, are these the same slots that US is also bidding for to start new service to namely SFO and SJU among others.

User currently offlineFrontiers4ever From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 173 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 5467 times:

AS will go where the business is, if it felt that PDX was better than SEA they would serve that route also they are operating from HUB to cities not 2nd dairy city to secondary city.

-Frontiers4ever



Until you prove, your right, your wrong
User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5427 times:

Frontier4ever...Maybe your not aware but Alaska considers PDX one of its hubs also. However there a strong bias for establishing new routes from Seattle over Portland. Portland could easily handle at least 1 roundtrip flight for each eastern us destinations that Alaska currently serves...

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Leneld - there is a bias towards Seattle (and a growing bias towards LAX) for the simple reason that that is where the maximum return can be had. Over the years AS has committed a significant amount of resource to PDX, and PDX has been unable to consistently support it, hence the change on many routes to QX service, it better matches the demand.

I don't argue that PDX could support a few flights to the east, but Seattle (and LAX) can support more. Hence the application.

Rgds
Duane




"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5381 times:
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While I can see the argument that with a limited number of slots, AS is better suited to having nonstop LAX-DCA than it would be PDX-DCA, I can't help but question the second round of SEA-DCA flights here.

That would give SEA-DCA three (I believe) roundtrips to DCA, and LAX would have two. If LAX-DCA is so itching to be served, when why not have three (or four) LAX-DCA, and one SEA-DCA?

IMHO, AS screwed up here. They have a better chance of getting the slots if they inaugurate new city pairs than they do adding flights to SEA. If they did 2xSEA-DCA, 2xLAX-DCA, 1xPDX-DCA, that's a significant increase in access to DCA from population centers on the west coast (not to mention 4 more congresspeople who will tap the FAA to approve the request).

And, to counteract the demand from SEA argument, the 2x/hour PDX-SEA shuttle works just as well in the other direction, too.

My bet is that we'll see PDX-IAD on AS at some point, but other than giving a 2nd daily flight in that market, it's not that much of an advantage. Alaska screwed this one up.


User currently offlineASBOIRR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5350 times:

I wouldn't call this a screw up. We applied for four slots. Two SEA-DCA (for a total of three) and two LAX-DCA.

LAX has a large population base but LAX still lacks the connection abilities of SEA (other Wshington cities, Oregon, Alaska state, Alberta, British Columbia). Thats why we applied for more SEA-DCA. To make up, if the 73Gs fill up 739s will be put on LAX-DCA.

As mentioned above there are an immense amount of conx abilities for PDX folks. And again, the SEA hub comes into play - SEA offers more connection abilities and the ones PDX offers, SEA does too.


User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5307 times:

PDX may have to wait for a competitor like JetBLue or SouthWest to come in before Alaska feels compelled to start transcons out of PDX.

It would seem PDX would be ripe for service to BOS, JFK and many other east coast cities, non-stop. If Alaska sees that one of these new generation carriers is coming into one of its home bases I don't think they would just sit by.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13248 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5247 times:
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EA Co AS...If your theory is correct, Why does Alaska has any mainland flights out of Portland at all.

Because PDX can support limited service up and down the West Coast. You'll notice that quite a bit of AS mainline service has been supplanted by QX CRJs. There's a reason for that...the PDX market isn't as strong as it once was.

As Duane and others have said, you deploy your equipment where you can get the best return. EA / KSEA), USA - Washington">SEA offers a better return than PDX does, especially to the East Coast.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5233 times:

Portland really is the step-child to SEA as far as AS is concerned.

I would really hope that NW does something more out of PDX now that they have the PDX-AA), Japan">NRT planned. NW started SEA-BOS and look how well that has done. Sure NW pulled out but AA and AS are doing very well in that market.

I find it hard to believe that AS or any other could not support and trans-con service put of PDX. 73G's with 120 seats would be a perfect a/c for some new PDX service.

At one point DL flew PDX-JFK and PDX-BOS with 757's.



You mad Bro???
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13248 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5204 times:
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I find it hard to believe that AS or any other could not support and trans-con service put of PDX. 73G's with 120 seats would be a perfect a/c for some new PDX service.

But again, this isn't necessarily about saying, "PDX can't support new service." It's about saying, "PDX can support it...but SEA will not only support it, but make more money in the process."

Put another way, if I know a PDX-DCA flight will make X number of dollars, but a second daily SEA-DCA flight will make X plus 20, then I'd be a fool to place the equipment out of PDX.

IMHO, you need to divorce your emotion from this, since it sounds like you're all bent outta shape because you think PDX should have nonstop service to everywhere. I understand your sentiment, but please look at this logically....on a per-flight basis, PDX simply doesn't make as much money for the company as SEA does.

And making money is the name of the game. The boys at Angle Lake aren't running a damn daisy farm.  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineAlexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5183 times:

Nice response EA CO AS  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


You mad Bro???
User currently offlineLeneld From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

If everything you all are saying about Portland is true then why did Alaska start an addition run to Denver? They could have added an addtional run to Seattle and connect passengers from Portland on Horizon since apparently according to this forum there is much more money to be made out of Seattle...

User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Lenald - again, no one is saying Portland can't support additional service.

In the case of Denver, the folks in yield and scheduling appear to have determined that they can maximize revenue by providing the additional service non-stop out of Portland. This not only captures more PDX passengers, but frees up seats out of Seattle (those folks who were connecting from PDX previously). In the case of the east coast, for whatever reason, the planners feel that allocating the aircraft and manpower to Portland won't provide the same return as it would out of Seattle, which makes perfect sense. Seattle has a larger catchment (all Washington and most Alaska, Oregon, Idaho and Montana stations have N/S to Seattle) than Portland.

Alaska does focus on Seattle, because it's the bigger market (for them). But they have always supported Portland, and the city and citizens have returned the favor. Looking into my crystal ball I predict that eventually they will open service from Portland to the east coast, once they have firmly established themselves on the Seattle to East Coast runs, and are ready to expand service. Exactly the way they did in opening up the west coast, first from Seattle, then from Portland.





"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24613 posts, RR: 86
Reply 23, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5115 times:
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At the risk of starting a war, surely one of the reasons for Alaska adding the additional PDX/DEN was to kick Frontier in the nuts for daring to start DEN/ANC.

Same for Alaska starting DEN/ANC. If the route is going to be so profitable, why didn't Alaska start it before?

cheers

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5083 times:
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I still think that AS screwed up here. I'm not delusional in thinking PDX could support all of the service that SEA has, but one of the things that the DOT looks at in granting beyond-perimiter rights is the access that it gives to new parts of the country that don't have convenient DCA service now.

Granted, AS may indeed make more money from SEA to DCA with the new flights, but if it comes down to an access issue, AS' argument that more SEA-DCA is a better thing than even a single PDX-DCA run is hard to make.

What's better: some money from a route that's more of a sure bet, or gambling on a more speculative route? In today's aviation economy, the former seems better to me.

AS would have a much bigger congressional push to get FAA approval from PDX, anyway. Rep. Peter DeFazio (D-OR, 4th Dist.) is the ranking Democrat on the House Aviation Subcommittee. DeFazio's district includes places like Eugene, Roseburg, Albany, Corvallis, Coos Bay, North Bend, Grants Pass, etc. Folks in his district, especially the northern part, would probably much prefer direct PDX service than a connection in SEA. Once somebody goes EUG-SEA-DCA, there's little compelling reason to do that rather than EUG-SFO-DCA, or even EUG-LAX-DCA. I'd imagine that if AS had elected to try for PDX-DCA, he'd lean pretty damned hard on the FAA to get that slot approved...

And, for the naysayers, congresspeople do have that sort of lean-power on agencies like the FAA, particularly when they're the senior Democrat on the oversight committee.


25 ASBOIRR : I still think that AS screwed up here. I'm not delusional in thinking PDX could support all of the service that SEA has, but one of the things that th
26 EA CO AS : Granted, AS may indeed make more money from SEA to DCA with the new flights, but if it comes down to an access issue, AS' argument that more SEA-DCA i
27 Flashmeister : ASBOIRR: I am not quite understanding what makes you think PDX can have equivalent service as SEA does on every route AS/QX operates. First, SEA still
28 Flashmeister : And, corrections to my previous comments -- it's not the FAA that's deciding this, it's the US Department of Transportation.
29 ASBOIRR : Frankly, I don't think we will get any more SEA service. And even if we tried PDX-DCA I'm not sure we would get that either. But I won't at all argue
30 Leneld : ASBOIRR...United flies to IAD daily from PDX....
31 SuperDash : I think in this go around, everyone will get a 2nd flight. That's Alaska to Seattle, Delta to Salt Lake, Frontier to Denver. Beyond that, I think that
32 Flashmeister : Has F9 even applied for a second flight? I can't find a press release saying that they have. Alaska does lose by not applying for PDX-DCA if the DoT l
33 Post contains links Mariner : Flashmeister: Frontier has applied for two additional daily flights DEN/DCA. http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~33~1882077,00.html There was
34 Flashmeister : Thanks for the link, Mariner. Interesting indeed. LAX would not be a good choice for F9. Considering that F9 is the darling of some in the gov't (like
35 Mariner : Flashmeister: I certainly think Frontier has a better than even chance of one extra flight. They have the advantage of being a "limited incumbent" (le
36 StevenUhl777 : An interesting discussion! It doesn't surprise me that the PDX fans feel robbed that PDX-DCA isn't being considered. But...why would it? UA has OWNED
37 Post contains images Worldperks : I see one more problem that hasn't been addressed. Alaska leases only one gate at DCA in old Concourse A. Since Spirit and AirTran have moved into Con
38 Gigneil : Has Continental even applied for these routes? I would think if they did, they'd operate a 752. But I don't expect them to apply. N
39 EA CO AS : So any new AS service would have to be juggled at gate A-6. I don't see why that would be a problem. Assuming each application gets the nod, there wou
40 Worldperks : Gigneil, A 752 could be done. Continental's gate B-14 is configured to handle a 752. And TW's (defunct) DCA-LAX service was done with 752 equipment.
41 Worldperks : EA CO AS, Hmmm. Yes. You're right. One gate could do it. But you don't understand the Washington mentality. For a good business day, flights must depa
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