Venezuela747 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1413 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8301 times:
I see our friend is following Huga Chavez step and buying a new plane, but Colombia does need a new plane, I dont think any airline still flies the B707. Venezuela changed from a good B737 to and A319 thats just dumb
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8166 times:
In fact, the new airplane will be more aimed to replace the current Fokker 28 because it has been the one which has cause the most serious problems. Anyway, if they buy the new plane, they'll directly replace the Fokker and, by the way, the 707
I hate to burst your bubble, but I think it was the El Colombiano newspaper and the Semana magazine also, were the ones that clearly stated that the colombian government was more biased towards the 737BBJ because the difference in prices was considerably large. Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see what happens, but what's definitely sure, is that teh national government will buy the option with best prices and forms of payment.
No, I don't recall seeing any airline used the 707. But if your stating that in order to justify the change of aircraft, your statement has no sense at all. Alhough there are few or none 707 in comercial, 707s are commonly used for military purposes and between them, it's easy to find the role of Air Force One. For example, if I recall correctly and if come change hasn't been made, Spain is another country that uses 707s in the miliary and as AFO.
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 11 Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8055 times:
Yep, I agree there are more planes that would be feasible for replacing the actual one, but as I say, the new plane is more intended to replace the Fokker 28, which is the one that's been being a complete pain in the ass.
And two options are clear, without possibility of change I think: It's the A319 or the 737. Stop counting.
Anxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 7956 times:
For me,the best option is clear:A-319 CJ
Why? simple:it's better plane than 737.But I´ve a lot of doubts than colombian gov. can buy this aircraft.In the article of terra.com/co say "de ser escogida la oferta de Boeing el garante de la negociación sería el gobierno estadounidense"...
If Boeing's offer is chosen the US' gov will be the guarantee- Americans,like usual, making a big pressure for the success of his companies.In this case,the european aircraft have more quality and it's more reliable
Ual727222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7932 times:
I cannot agree with your conclusion that American equipment has less while the European have more quality. As a career commerical airline pilot who has flown everything from the 707 to the 747, I assure you that the quality of Boeing equipment is unquestionable. Many airlines around the world fly the 737, 200/300, some of which are pushing 20 years old, and those old machines continue to deliver the goods, day in and out. I flew the 727 for almost 17 of my close to 36 years, and that plane was by far the least maintenance needy of all the types I flew- reliable, dependable everytime. Airbus's planes are fine, but they are still relatively new, and I wonder if they will be able to withstand 20 or 30 years of flying as the Boeing and Douglas machines do. A friend of mine who flies cargo told me that his line's aging A300 fleet is quite troublesome, and he has seen a range of problems with them, both mechanical and structural. Yet, his line's old DC-8s and 727s keep on chugging with only minor concerns. The new 737s are excellent planes and offer excellent fuel economy, range, and reliability. And quite frankly, I do not blame the US government acting as an unofficial marketing agent for Boeing. It should advocate for its businesses. After all, Airbus has received rhetorical help from its partners which actually subsidize its operations.
FFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 732 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7818 times:
Why does a country like Colombia (no offense) need a presidential plane!!?? There are numerous rich(er) countries e.g. in Europe, which don't have a specific presidential planes at all. They just use business jet or other chartered services. Even use scheduled flights especially for long-haul.
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7791 times:
Hi, I agree with you, It would be nice to see a 767 as a presidential plane, however the plane will not only be used to move the president from Bogota to other countries but also inside the country, so, there are a los of small airports in Colombia that can't handle a 767 so buying that one would be a waste of money.
There are a lot of reasons to have a presidential plane;
First of all is security reason for the president.
Second: passengers on commercial flights won't feel safe traveling with the president on board and the security measures to be taken are too high that airlines would waste a lot of money, so perhaps for one flight it would be ok for the airline but in time they would deny permission; if I had to be on the same plane of president Uribe I wouldn't go onboard.
Third: the president does not travel alone, in fact he is always moving with a lot of people between body guards, ministers, advisers and journalists so doing it in a commercial plane wouldn't be a good idea.
Fourth: Airlines Schedules are extremely rigid and the president is constantly moving from here to there, a delay of a commercial flight would screw his agenda.
Fifth: The president travels every weekend to different cities in the country and come back to Bogota, using a chartered service in time, would be more expensive than buying a plane
Sixth: The people of Colombia actually Want his president to have a safe plane.
In fact, even when you wrote "no offense" those comments really offends people, try to be more careful.
Zak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7740 times:
i think the decision will, no matter which plane is better therefore AvB doesnt matter, be a political.
considering hugo chavez (more or less rightfully i think) accuses the usa of being resposible for certain actions supporting opposition to his regime, i do conclude that hell would freeze over before he would order anything u.s..
Ual727222 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 61 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7706 times:
Would it be out of the realm of possibilities for the Colombian government to buy and to convert a used aircraft? Depending on the government's finances, this might be a consideration. They might also want an aircraft with range comparable to that of the 707. I flew the 707 back in 1969 and its range, depending on type, is greater than the A319 or 737NG. The 707-300 Intercontinental was the primary international transport prior to the 747. Their current aircraft is used also, a former pax transport from World Airways. A 767 or 757 would certainly be good for their needs and relatively easy to acquire and finance. And also, as far as runways are concerned, if they can take off on their existing runways with a 707, they can take off with any jetliner. One of the reasons why the 727 was developed was b/c the 707 and DC-8 could not take off on short runways; their powerplants were good but not powerful enough to generate the speed necessary for quick rotation, especially with a full load. The 737, 757, 767, 777, and 747 as well as the newer Airbus jets have such high thrust engines that takeoff is comparably effortless when considered in relation to the 707.
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7872 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7678 times:
I think Colombia will probably end up buying the Boeing Business Jet (essentially a 737-700 with winglets). The winglet-equipped BBJ should be able to fly at least 6,000 nautical miles, which makes it possible to fly from Bogata all the way to much of western Europe non-stop easily.
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7643 times:
"And also, as far as runways are concerned, if they can take off on their existing runways with a 707, they can take off with any jetliner."
When the president goes to cities with shorter runways he doesn't use the 707, he uses the F28.
"I think the decision will, no matter which plane is better therefore AvB doesnt matter, be a political. considering hugo chavez (more or less rightfully i think) accuses the usa of being resposible for certain actions supporting opposition to his regime, i do conclude that hell would freeze over before he would order anything u.s.."
We are talking about the new aicraft for Colombia's president, Chavez is Venezuela's president; by the way, Colombia has very good relationships with US and Europe so the decision will be based on anything but politics.
Spacepope From Vatican City, joined Dec 1999, 2814 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7613 times:
Security in a country like Colombia (where there were many assasination attempts on President Uribe in 2003) is a high priority, and that simply cannot be gauranteed on a chartered aircraft, especially on short notice. Looking at military aircraft, the Colombians are equipped with mostly American and Soviet types (Mi-17s, UH-1 and UH-60). I wouldn't be too terribly suprised to see a BBJ or even a C-40B. The A-319CJ is a good aircraft, Daimler Chrysler runs one across the pond on a frequent basis with few problems, I just don't see (geopolitically) that with the billions in aid that the U.S. supplies Colombia, that an Airbus would likely be aquired. I could be wrong though. Either way, it doesn't pay me anything anyways.
The argument that since some EU nations don't have a dedicated executive transport, so what need does backwards Colombia have for one is elitist and offensive. I just hope eventually people realize that the way that they do things is not always the best way.
Zak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8 Reply 17, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7604 times:
"We are talking about the new aicraft for Colombia's president, Chavez is Venezuela's president; by the way, Colombia has very good relationships with US and Europe so the decision will be based on anything but politics."
Anxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7522 times:
Specifically,in this case I find the A319 CJ better than 737.But...i don't wish to start a new "war" Airbus vs Boeing.I like very much the 747's.The best aircraft for long haul made in many years;my father was IB's F/A in 747.I've very good memories in journeys at 747.And I can't understand why the 747 is on the fall...I don't like the 773's like replacement of 742's.But...this is for the other topic.
But it's true:If Colombia buy Airbus(for Avianca o for president's plane) I'm sure than US's aid to Colombia for combat to "guerrilla" can be "in danger" (other case is the aid for narcos and drugs) US can press to Colombia in many things and in many business...this is so true like i'm spaniard and i live in Madrid
SOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2496 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7458 times:
So I think you're basically contradicting yourself. I cannot see why the A319 would be a better option. First of all, it has similar capabilities to the 737BBJ, only that it's way more expensive. Second, apparently Boeing will give better payment methods in case Colombia bought the 737s and third, if buying the 737 means more help from the US (which I simply don't think) well buy it !
Can you please explain your position (which I think is influenced by your helpless Airbus love ) ?
Anxebla From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7386 times:
What do you prefer??? A Chrysler Neon or a BMW325??? Well,for me is the same this comparison and the B737-BBJ vs A-319CJ....Chrysler would be Boeing and BMW would be...A319CJ!!!! In this case BMW's quality is similar to Airbus... You know very well for me 320 family is better than 737
B-737 is not bad...just for me,Airbus 319/20/21 have more quality... other case is in long-haul aircrafts.
UAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2340 posts, RR: 11 Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7378 times:
I find it so funny that they could use a B737 or A319 as a presidential plane. It just seems too small to do that job that is required by a president.
I believe that EVERY country needs a presidential plane. The president cannot stop running the country while he is in-flight and that is what happens (on a very small scale) when a president in onboard scheduled air on a long haul as you say. An example would be if something happened while Mr. Blair is on a BA flight to the US what is he going to do? His communication isnt secure therefore he cannot give orders or receive updates that would be considered "Top secret" Please if anyone knows different feel free to correct me but this is my opinion...
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7344 times:
I find it so funny that they could use a B737 or A319 as a presidential plane. It just seems too small to do that job that is required by a president.
As I wrote before, Colombia's president need a small aircraft because most of the airports in mid-small size cities in Colombia are really short and he uses to travel to those cities frequently, that is why we have the F28 and the B707, now, the 319 or 737 will have extra fuel tanks not the normal configuration. By the way, I agree with you, a presidential plane is a "must have" for every country in the world.
FFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 732 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7279 times:
I believe MOST European countries DON'T have presidential (or whatever Kings or Queens they have) airplanes. At least none of the Scandinavian countries do, and then what about Belgium, Netherlands, even Germany (France, of course must have one...remember their pride and ego , Japan, Australia, Canada...?
Can someone list the countries that do? I guess this list would be a shorther one...
Juanr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (9 years 11 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7244 times:
In a country with a terrain like the one that we have in Colombia a presidential plane is not a matter of pride or anything, it is a "must have" in order to provide safer and faster movements to our president. I am glad we are getting a new one, if europeans country do not need planes, well, bad for them (or good, from your point of view), I don't know why I am starting to think that US is the only country big-powerful enough to have a presidential plane.
25 Santosdumont: Obviously, you can't get in the way of progress. But it's sad to see another 707 retired. Just my (unscientific and illogical) .02. For some reason, I
26 YV136C: Although I'm not inclined to give my praise to Hugo Chavez for changing Presidential planes, it was a necessary move. The old 737 was a flying deatht
27 Copa737: YV136C, Yeah Its true what you said. I would like to ask if you know when the President Chavez leaves to Monterrey, Mexico for the Cumbre de las Ameri
28 YV136C: Copa737, I really don't know about when he's traveling....because he (Mr. Chavez) just finished calling Condoleeza Rice an "analphabet" because she su
29 Wimpycol: Well it doesn't matter which one it will be!! It would be great to see the B737 with the Colombian flag painted also on the winglets. Hopefully the de
30 MD-90: Here's a thought. The dollar is weak right now, which makes Boeings more attractive to international clients than Airbus' products. Juanr, Japan has 1
31 Juanr: Juanr, Japan has 1/3 of the US population crammed onto a landmass the size of just one of our states (California), and yet their presidential (they do
32 Anxebla: FFlyer: Germany has one,Lutfwaffe A310...the plane of Germany's chancellor.Spain now have one A310,Japan has B747-400 for the Royal Family,gov. of Ven
33 MD-90: Oh I wasn't suggesting that Columbia needs a 747 at all. Definately not. I think a BBJ would be a fine choice. And if the US would end the "war" on dr
34 Cayman: PM of Canada has an A310, very nicely appointed and was nicknamed the "Taj Mahal" by some press years ago who did not like the then PM who ordered it/
35 Juanr: Taken from El Tiempo news paper Boeing 737, nuevo avión presidencial Una comisión de la Fuerza Aérea Colombiana (FAC) decidió que la mejor oferta