Petazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1 Posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3311 times:
I am going to book some travel in the next day or so to Paris from NYC. Which carrier has the best Business/First class product.
CO has a lot of info on their website and it certainly looks very nice- (plus it is on all their 767 and 777 planes).
Delta's website gives a 4 sentence vague description and does not break it down by aircraft type. Does the seat recline? Is the product as crappy as it looks on the website. I take less info to be a sign they might be hiding something? I have enough miles for an upgrade with both carriers- although I prefer JFK to EWR.
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2903 posts, RR: 5 Reply 1, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3272 times:
They're comparable in terms of service, but I think CO's seats are wider, at least on the 767s. CO has a 2-1-2 configuration, whereas DL has 2-2-2 (at least they did last time I flew BusinessElite). On the 777 there is likely to be less of a difference. CO flies newer planes, on average. Neither airline has a full-flat sleeper seat, if that's what you're asking, but as I recall they both have decent recline.
Let me ask you this: is it possible for you to use your Delta miles to get business class on an AF-operated DL codeshare flight? That would probably be your best option, IMHO. Their service is great and they use mostly 777 between NYC and CDG.
Delta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1168 posts, RR: 3 Reply 2, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3226 times:
Go for Continental. I flew both Airlines between Frankfurt and New York (JFK & EWR). Delta was very bad on both ways while CO was one of the Best Flights I ever had on an american carrier! They only have a 2-1-2 Seating on a 767 which is def. better than Delta`s 2-2-2! And the crew is nicer too!
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2903 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3128 times:
Another thing to consider is which terminal you will be departing from. At JFK, if you're on AF you'll be leaving from T1, which is gorgeous. However, DL uses T3, which is a dump--especially when you clear immigration and claim your bag on the return. I know what you mean about EWR--it's less convenient for me too--but in all fairness CO's terminal there is very nice and user-friendly.
I'd say go DL only if you can get on an AF-operated codeshare flight. Otherwise CO is probably your best bet.
AlekToronto From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 328 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3113 times:
In my experience the CO product is better than DL product.
I find the seating is a bit better, the seat better designed and even thou both have comparable leg room 55-60 inches - the CO cabin seems less crowded.
In terms of aircraft both have new aircraft however DL transatlantic 767 are older than CO.
On the flights I have had - CO also serves better food and has slightly better IFE - even thou I think both Airlines are not as good as BA in IFE offerings.
In terms of crew CO is slightly friendlier than DL (surprisingly) however had both good and bad on both carriers.
Considering these are J class flights I would go with the one that offers you better mileage and depending on what FF plan you belong to, have more miles with beacause the differences are really in fact pretty minor.
of course given the choice I would go with AF if possible - great food and nice (and nice looking) F/A's.
Petazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3035 times:
American Airlines is not an option because I do not have enough miles with them. Like many frequent travellers in NYC, I am an airline 'ho' who always just looks for the cheapest/convenient fare. Aside from CO (I don't use them much because EWR is far from work), there is no hub carrier here and between JetBlue, AA, DL, CO, US, and UA/AC I just slowly compile my miles on all of the carriers. I eventually earn freebies on all of them over time, while not feeling mortgaged to one company. Amex and Visa Miles help me too as I can dump them quickly into one account to put me over the top.
It sounds to me like CO is the way to go, although I will perhaps go with AF if the times are better. I like their night flight back from Paris.
Jumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
I recently (Dec '03) flew Delta bizclass from CDG to JFK, I believe it was flight 119. Very comfortable seat. Food was excellent, FA's were very friendly and corteous. Seats recline to the point where you are almost lying flat. Nice leg rest. Seats are fully automated.
I also flew Cont 777 (coach) from AMS to EWR, Nov, '03 and I can tell you that CO's first class seats looked a heck of a lot more comfortable, and newer.It also looked like there were a few more bells and whistles on the CO's seats. Either way, I dont think you can really go wrong.
CODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2299 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2998 times:
I really wouldn't even consider AF business, it's the second class on a 3-class plane, which means your service is less of a priority, and the food is good but not enough to negate CO and DL's overall better product, and rightfully so. AF has a First Class product that beats both CO and DL's premium cabin, so it's all relative.
That said, here is how I would rank them:
Food: CO, although Delta sometimes can pull out the ace with an excellent choice of entrees
Seats: Hard to say because of differences in aircraft types. Basically:
1- CO 777 (best recline, widest, and really comfortable seat, IMO)
2- DL 777 (BE really should be 21" wide standard, beats CO's old BF seat)
3- DL M11 (I realize they are gone now but they were beauties...)
4- CO 767 (21" wide and 2-1-2 are the keys here, less crowded cabins)
5- DL 763 (Seat itself is excellent, but you really notice the 18.5" width)
6- CO 752 (Doubt you will get on a 757, but it comes in last since it's a 757)
Service: CO's International crews are consistently great, DL's are also very good but I have encountered some downright nasty attendants in the past.
IFE: Even, no AVOD and roughly same size screen and programming.
Airport Service: DL has (or used to, I think they closed several) tons of BE lounges at JFK, which usually have something nice to snack on and are intimate spaces reserved exclusively for BE pax. If you can't get there, you have the CRC which are also solid but can get crowded. CO just has the Presidents Clubs at EWR, but they are very large in both locations at Terminal C and usually one can find a place to sit. On the other end, DL can get you into an AF arrivals club in CDG with plenty of showers and food after your flight. CO contracts with somebody over there (may even be AF, there is no PC) for similar services. CO also offers a concierge on most flights to assist you with connections and such. I haven't seen this on DL.
My recommendation is Continental, but you really can't go wrong with either.
N6376m From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 18, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2933 times:
AF biz class is 2 - 3 - 2 (at least on 777's). Seat recline is less and pitch is also less than DL. Food and service are better. Since I fly Biz in order to rest, my priorities are seat comfort, service/food, then IFE. Using that criteria, I'd rank your options:
FlyTPA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 134 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2856 times:
And if you're an American, you'll no doubt get better service on Continental or Delta since the AF flight attendants have a tendency to be "less friendly" to those that aren't French. This was my experience in September with AF business class. I will avoid them if at all possible in the future and stick with Delta or Continental.
Also, what has been stated above about their seat recline/pitch is accurate. Although DL's seats are narrow, they recline further and there is a lot of room between you and the passenger in front of you. Overall, the best I've experienced has been Continental - you get seat width, good recline, and great service!
Signore e signori-benvenuti a bordo questo volo per l'Italia!
Petazulu From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 701 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2840 times:
I am actually a dual citizen of both France and the USA. I therefore speak both languages fluently and don't really get that 'attitude' that French people are often accused of. Understanding both cultures very well, I think that attitude is more of a cultural difference. They view our loud conversations with equal distain.
As for what I will do, I think I will suck it up and fly out of EWR just to experience what CO has to offer. I hope the product is superior, as Newark is not my favorite place to go...
FlyTPA From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 134 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2820 times:
I can appreciate where you're coming from. Although I'm an American, I am very embarassed when my rude, obnoxious fellow citizens travel the world and expect everyone to cater to them. I speak 4 languages (unfortunately not French) and I make it a point to treat others with respect as well as make an effort to speak at least a few words of their language.
In my experience, however, it is hard to not be offended when the flight attendant doesn't offer you bread at both meals, yet asks the French person across the aisle twice. When he asked for a drink, she would stop and bring it to him right away, whereas I had to wait until she was done serving and then it was forgotten about. This happened twice on the same flight. And after she forgot, I tried the flight attendant call button, and she didn't even come to my seat. (I've detailed my experiences in another thread on this website). When I complained to the purser, he told me that he couldn't believe what I was saying, despite the fact that the person seated next to me witnessed everything and received similar poor treatment.
The flight attendant, when she aproached me afterwards told me that she only has 2 hands and can't make everyone happy.
So, this gave me a very strong impression that it wasn't just one person in the crew that was having a bad day, but it seemed that the entire crew just didn't care. That is sad for a world class carrier. My experience on the other leg was better, however a flight attendant spilled wine on one of my traveling companions (all over her white jeans), and she wasn't the least bit apologetic. She basically said that she would get her a coupon at the end of the flight to clean them. When it was time to leave, she didn't have it ready, and we were delayed for 20 minutes waiting for her to find one and fill it out. We barely made our connecting flight due to it.
I hope that my experiences were isolated, and not the norm for others. Whatever carrier you choose to fly, I wish you a good trip.
Signore e signori-benvenuti a bordo questo volo per l'Italia!
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4728 posts, RR: 26 Reply 22, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2808 times:
I fly between NYC and CDG about once every week or two weeks - usually on DL or AA, and to a certain extent, CO, and then AF. I generally prefer DL though the 2 things that CO has over DL are the wider seat (CO flies the 777 between EWR and CDG while DL has the 763ER) and better customs/immigration facilities on arrival back in NYC. Crews, meals, and IFE are generally comparable; DL flies into the much nicer (and newer) and less congested Terminal 2E at CDG while CO still uses Term. 2A (older, but ok unless you have to contend with the AF African flights at check-in when the place becomes mobbed with pax., well-wishers, and luggage).
The CO 777 BizElite seats are the new "pod" seats which recline flat but at an angle (some people don't like this as it gives them a feeling of 'slipping' down the seat); I personally prefer the DL seat which reclines like an armchair to 160 degrees - very comfortable and never had a problem sleeping.
Both offer Concierge service (ground staff at either end) dedicated to the C Class passenger although CO's seems a tad more professional and visible (they proactively reach out to you more)....hope this helps. I guess at the end of the day, it depends on what your priorities are.
PS. AF's biz seats on both their 744s and 777s which they use on the JFK-CDG runs have a 2-3-2 config which really stinks. In addition, seat pitch is only 48" (compared to 60" for DL) while the recline is also not as generous (I think they have improved a little with the recline over the original 127 degrees which was quite laughable). I wouldn't choose them unitl they install their new C seats. However, they do have one 744 between JFK and CDG and if you haven't had the pleasure of flying on that (and on the upper deck, no less) you may want to consider them for one way (via the DL codeshare).
Marcopolo747 From Brazil, joined Mar 2001, 460 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (9 years 11 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2778 times:
From my recent experiences, CO is the best option in terms of modern, new and up to date planes, FirstBusiness seats are among the best products on C class, crews have a professional, efficient and courteous approach to passengers and catering is quite nice. I'm sure you won't regret choosing CO.