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Lukewarm Competition!  
User currently offlineNWDC10 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1830 times:

What is competition when there is codeshare and honoring each others frequent flyer programs? What is competition when there is Star Alliance and the other "groups" I agree with South West. They want to be totally independent from all the other airlines. They, as you know don't deal in codesharing or others frequent flyer programs. If you want "competition", each airline must operate apart from each other and go 100% independant from each other. This includes, you can't buy your competition out as in the 80's. UsAir bought PSA, AA bought Air Cal, Delta bought Western etc. If you want to compete, you must have TRUE competition-no "lukewarm" competition. Is lukewarm competition even competition at all? Robert NWDC10 *going to hit some nerves here but understand my point*

4 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4324 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

You're right, in a perfect world codesharing would not be needed or tolerated. However, codesharing actually helps in many cases. For instance, Great Lakes Aviation codes shares with United and Frontier from Denver to many small cities across the Midwest, such as Hays, Great Bend, Dodge City, and Liberal, KS; North Platte, Scottsbluff, and Chadron, NE; Vernal and Moab, UT; and tons of towns and cities across Colorado and Wyoming, as well as others in AZ, ND, SD, NM, and TX. In this case, codesharing allows customers seamless access from major cities across the world to these smaller cities. The same goes for many of the US regional airlines, including American Eagle's carriers (before AMR completely owned them), Delta Connection carriers, United Express carriers, etc. Many of these smaller cities cannot be served economically by more than one airline, or even just one airline, which is why there are EAS subsidies.
In terms of international flight, it is difficult for airlines to start service between countries. Various bilateral agreements must be negotiated, and then the governments decide which airlines receive rights to fly to the other country. Also, even if, for example, United States carriers recieve rights to fly to Paris, they do not have the right to fly their own planes inside of France or the rest of the European Union. Codesharing and interline ticketing reduces the hassle the customer must endure by allowing him or her to enjoy a seamless travel experience.
As far as codesharing domestically among large airlines, while I am also against it, it can sometimes be necessary and helpful. For instance, if one carrier had a major presence in the East and Midwest but had very little presence in the West, it would make since for them to codeshare with that airline as the startup costs for a completely new operation in a different part of the country are extraordinarily high. Since, most likely, the Eastern carrier would not be entering the Western market because of the high start up costs, they are not really stealing competition from each other. All they are really doing is providing a seamless travel system for the passenger.

Hope this helps


"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineInnocuousFox From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2805 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1775 times:

I agree with regional partners like what you mentioned out of Denver.
I agree with international partners that have a limited presence in another country... perhaps with the international flight only serving to a hub of the domestic partner.
I agree with airlines partnering that have COMPLETELY different route networks such as an east coast/west coast partnership with only connecting flights between their respective hubs.

That being said, codeshares between NW and CO for example are bloody annoying. Just tell me the truth about who I am flying on and screw the fine print.

Dave Mark - Intrinsic Algorithm - Reducing the world to mathematical equations!
User currently offlineTexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4324 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1753 times:

Completely agree. Definitely against the NW/CO/DL, and the UA/US. Also, in SEA and PDX, AS has quite a competitive advantage since they're fooling around with everyone, keeping everybody except WN at bay, really. But the PSA/US merger could have been great for US, had they handled it correctly, and the same goes for AirCal/AA. Neither one really had major presences on the West Coast, and this gave them instant access. In retrospect, each company probably would have been better off either codesharing with their respective CA airline, or owning them but keeping their operations separate. Sorry about the rant, but that's what's great about these forums!


"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineKrags From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

Texan, that was a good post. I will never understand how and why US Air and AA (AA did it twice!) bought in to the west coast market and then bailed. They took good airlines and just killed them. Had they kept them I think WN wouldn't be all that it is in California. Not knocking WN but I really think things would have been different. As for code shares, I think it has reached the point where it is confusing to a lot of people. There are so many domestic code shares now that the airlines are all sort of blending in to one giant "Ameriflot".

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