Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
America West Matches JetBlue  
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2617 times:

America West is matching the jetblue fares in the same competing Boston
sectors, bu they are also adding JFK to the list as well.

[Edited 2004-01-14 23:40:35]

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Jet Blue is in trouble-


America West

Boston-Las Vegas
Boston-Los Angeles
Boston-Phoenix
Boston-San Francisco

New York/JFK-Las Vegas
New York/JFK-Los Angeles
New York/JFK-Phoenix
New York/JFK-San Francisco

Jet Blue

Boston-Long Beach (30 minutes from LAX)

New York/JFK-Las Vegas
New York/JFK-Long Beach (30 minutes from LAX)
New York/JFK-Oakland (20 minutes from SF)

America West flies into real airports and not the alternates that Jet Blue prefers... Jet Blue better re-market or re-think its strategies and fast. American, Delta, and now America West are riding hard on Jet Blue and its tail. Southwest is no match for Jet Blue either!


LHR001


User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2535 times:

I wouldn't say they are in trouble, but the other airlines aren't very happy...

AAndrew


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Yeah, I woiuldn't sya they will make completed of HP on their way to LAS, SFO, PHX, LAX.

User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2504 times:

How long is American Airlines and United Airlines going to dealw ih Jet Blue before they add more frequencies or offer larger aircraft on Trans-Con markets.

Isn't United Airlines due to retire the 767-200 fleet? If so what equipment will be used on the Trans-Con?


LHR001


User currently offlinePropjock04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

I agree with Lhr001 to a point...I think this could be a problem for jetBlue, but I by no means think they are in trouble yet. America West, Delta, and American have a much more flexible route network to get people from the east coast to the west not to mention nonstops into the big airports.

Mike


User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3514 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2468 times:

Jestblue has one hudge advantage over American or United - low operating costs. AA and UA may hit JetBlue by increasing capacity and lowering fares on these routes but in the same time they hit themselves by loosing money that they don't have.

User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12147 posts, RR: 49
Reply 7, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2435 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This is just the daily lets knock Jet BLue thread.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2419 times:

Jet Blue is in trouble-


America West

Boston-Las Vegas
Boston-Los Angeles
Boston-Phoenix
Boston-San Francisco

New York/JFK-Las Vegas
New York/JFK-Los Angeles
New York/JFK-Phoenix
New York/JFK-San Francisco

Jet Blue

Boston-Long Beach (30 minutes from LAX)

New York/JFK-Las Vegas
New York/JFK-Long Beach (30 minutes from LAX)
New York/JFK-Oakland (20 minutes from SF)


JetBlue isn't in trouble. If anything, AA and DL are banging their heads against the wall because JetBlue is fighting back.

As far as the AmWest flights go, JetBlue has SEVEN frequencies to Long Beach and Oakland from JFK. America West only has TWO to Los Angeles and SFO. So JetBlue gets the pie there.

The new flights from Boston to Long Beach still hasn't started, so nobody could spot a clear winner. Their innagural flight on Thursday is sold out though...or has less than 9 seats available.

LHR, I don't like to deal with you because you don't make any sense, but here is goes anyway. LAX and LGB both serve Los Angeles. Both have its advantages and disadvantages. Period. Also, that "(20 minutes from SF)" thing
proves noting because SFO and OAK are BOTH 20 minutes from downtown. SFO is located in Milbrae, not San Francisco. So there is no advantage there either. AmWest flying into SFO is just as convenient and B6 flying into OAK.

As far as I can see, no airline is really going to win this. It's ridiculous that from starting with AA, these airlines just jumped on the low-fare rider: DL, B6, HP. Soon every airline in the industry will be offering some type of sale. Is this how it's going to be for now on? Will the airlines be all over each other following each other each step of the way? I certainly hope not. It's not healthy for any airline. Nobody will win!

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Statement-

"As far as I can see, no airline is really going to win this. It's ridiculous that from starting with AA, these airlines just jumped on the low-fare rider: DL, B6, HP. Soon every airline in the industry will be offering some type of sale. Is this how it's going to be for now on? Will the airlines be all over each other following each other each step of the way? I certainly hope not. It's not healthy for any airline. Nobody will win!"

Response-

Delta won in Atlanta!


Statement-

"AmWest flying into SFO is just as convenient and B6 flying into OAK"

Response-

Not always, the trek from the airport in Oakland to the Bay Bridge is roughly 10-15 minutes. From the Bay Bridge to San Francisco is roughly 15-25 minutes or longer dependant apon traffic. By the way, there are many more alternatives from SFO than OAK for ground transportation!

Statement-

"The new flights from Boston to Long Beach still hasn't started, so nobody could spot a clear winner. Their innagural flight on Thursday is sold out though...or has less than 9 seats available"

Response-

Sold Out... That is nice... Most Inaugural flights are Sold Out! Furthermore, America West, American, and United all offer soemthing that Jet Blue does not - Frequency, Upgrades, and Mileage partners!



How can an airline grow in Long Beach if they are at capacity? You can switch flights around all you want.... You need to at some point realize that discontinuing routes like LGB-LAS, LGB-ATL, OAK-ATL will only hurt the airline in the long run. When Jet Blue pulls out the clients go elsewhere!






LHR001


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Delta won in Atlanta!

The fare battle there wasn't as large as this new fare battle for flights from JFK/BOS-LAX/LGB/OAK/SFO.

As far as your statement about the convenience that SFO and OAK have to downtown, a 10 minute drive doesn't make a difference. I would rather fly JetBlue into OAK than AmWest into SFO - even if the fares are exactly the same. Why? Because OAK doesn't have fog like SFO, resulting in the lesser possibility of a delay.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Jetblue lost in Atlanta, and from their own admittance, it was because of the dogfight between B6, DL, and FL on those routes, as if B6 didn't expect that to happen. Its now happening again, basically on the same scale. Face it, the BOS market to West Coast is most likely larger than ATL's, but Jetblue also has bigger competitors. It is now trying to take on 3 other airlines. Its no longer dealing with one major and one LCC, but its now dealing with 3 majors(if anyone counts HP as a major, since they recently went LCC and are around number 9 in size). They are taking on AA(the largest airline in the world), DL(the largest US airline in terms of passengers carried), and America West, another LCC.

It will be an interesting battle, but I think the Jetblue has gotten in over its head again. No one turns their heads to LCC's anymore and no one lets the new guy come knocking on their turf.


User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2205 times:

I don't agree with LHR001's points, however, he sideways raises a valid point. As jetBlue is expanding, it is now coming into "conflict" with more and more airlines. As each airline competes and lowers prices here and there, it may begin to add up to a significant depressant on jetBlue's revenue.

If there is any risk to B6's growth, it is the "taking on all comers at the same time" that's beginning to happen.

Steve


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2193 times:

OttoPylit,

Yes, JetBlue will have to face all 3 airlines in terms of competition, but not on every route. JetBlue will only have to compete with HP on the LAX route. With Song to Florida. And with AA to all destinations except DEN. So JetBlue doesn't have to compete with all three airlines on any route...that is unless Delta flies LAX-BOS. Do they?

I was just checking out AA's BOS-SFO fares. $288 one-way!!! Aren't they going to lower them due to HP? JetBlue is offering BOS-OAK (via LGB) $79 one-way.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineLuv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12147 posts, RR: 49
Reply 14, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2104 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

JetBlue lost in ATL, so what they are the only airline that has ever left a route? From what I saw they never entered into the antics that DL did, they did not have to give away there product like DL did, triple miles and the likes. JetBlue does not have to pay people to fly them. My take is they put pressure on DL and DL spent like the geeky kid trying to impress the pretty girl, in the end the pretty girl, like always never stays with the geeky boy, and DL is in no financial position to be giving anything away. Also concerning BOS, please the sad thing is the strongest airline along with B6 is HP and that right there is a sad statement.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLhr001 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2100 times:

What does the business traveller want..... Price or Convenience....

America West ..American Airlines ..United Airlines
************************************
6 Hours 10 Minutes
Boston to San Francisco

Jet Blue
******
6 Hours
Boston to Long Beach

1 hour Long Beach

1 Hour 20 minutes
Long Beach to Oakland

With your America West, American Airlines or United Airlines flight you could be already handling your business by the time Jet Blue leave Long Beach for Oakland!

The $79.00 fare is promotional! Looking at a recent trip LAS-JFK day of departure -

$238.00 AWA, Song
$245.00 UAL, AAL, DAL, COA, NWA
$278.00 Jet Blue

Come On... Jet Blue is not as cheap as everyone barks about!


LHR001


User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2066 times:

JetBlue isn't in trouble, but their life, in the short term, is not going to be anywhere near as rosy as it has been in the recent past.

JetBlue's fleet is getting older. Maintenance is going to cost more. In fact, depending on how those planes are leased or financed, they are going to cost more.

Employees are acquiring some seniority and their company is making a profit. Ther are going to want to see some of that profitability reflected in the paycheck. It's a totally human trait. New York is a labor friendly state, and I would be very surprised to see JetBlue remain non-union for more than a few additional years.

Thus, costs are going to go up. That isn't even open for debate. The question is how far and how fast will they go up.

The current extremely low ASM cost is depressed, in part, by the average stage length. The Embraers will start arriving one of these days. The airline management has already conceded that they will raise the ASM cost by a penny. A lot of us think it will be more than that....especially when you factor in a significant decrease in average stage length attributable to those aircraft. Let's face it, you aren't going to be running tons of transcons with those Embraer 190s.

Jet Blue is to be admired for its low fares. They may, however, have taken it to an unsustainable extreme. That's one of many things that got People Express in trouble.....you could hop a flight from Houston Hobby to Newark for $69. There is such a thing as pricing your product too low.

Several key indicators that ought to worry JetBlue fans: Yields have dropped during '03 when compared to '02. By comparison, WN's yield is up 3.8% Jet Blue's yield is in the 7s...or maybe low 8s. Southwest's are 11.71 and climbing. Maintenance costs at JetBlue are way up, and even when corrected for increase in fleet size they are way up. JetBlue's modus operandi of putting one or two or maybe three flights in a long haul market....to skim the cream off the top.....has not had the desired effect. I think what JetBlue wanted was the big guys to ignore them...thinking if I only have a flight or two across there, they won't risk taking a big hit on yield by matching our fares. Not only did DL match the fare, they slam dunked some serious additional capacity and SkyMiles incentives between Hotlanta and the El Lay Basin. JetBlue cannot expect other airlines to ignore their presence.....to treat them like a sore which might go away. The sleeping giants have been awakened to the threat.

And unlike Southwest, JetBlue is not so big and flush with cash to where they can put up with any fare-cutting war a major happens to engage them in. It is true that JetBlue can make money on fares the other carriers can't. It's also true that it's possible for the big carriers to chop the fares to levels that JetBlue can't possibly make money on, and sit there and wait for JetBlue to holler "Uncle!"

What does JetBlue need to do? Decide on a business plan and adhere to it. They have already tossed out the window the single biggest key to WN's success---the single type fleet of aircraft. To add insult to injury, they have aircraft which hail from Europe and South America, and the parts flow from either place (not to mention expense) is not highly regarded in the industry.

JetBlue is hip, au courant, avant garde, the cat's pajamas.....right now. The American public is fickle, however, and what is popular today may be old hat tomorrow. Bell bottoms, mood rings, and The Valerie Harper Show starring Sandy Duncan all had their day in the sun, but this too shall pass. The bigger question is how JetBlue will do when the bloom is off the rose....



User currently offlineATA767 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2029 times:

They are not as cheap but U would fly them over the competition in a minute. Their is nothing like watching 24 channels of TV while you fly and that is it even at 20+ dollars difference.

User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 818 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

"The $79.00 fare is promotional! Looking at a recent trip LAS-JFK day of departure -

$238.00 AWA, Song
$245.00 UAL, AAL, DAL, COA, NWA
$278.00 Jet Blue

Come On... Jet Blue is not as cheap as everyone barks about!"
====================
but........isn't it the thing that once the cheap seats are sold the prices go up?!?!? the $278 just shows that the flights are filling up.

also...the whole SFO/OAK debate as to who's closer to who. i'm not from the bay area but from a map i was looking at...isn't there a bigger population base on the east bay anyways? especially for those who live in the Stockton surrounding area...if they happen to be flying to New York...wouldn't OAK be a better/easier to drive to?

HP, UA, and AA have an advantage of the BOS-SFO/OAK route becuase aren't they using larger aircraft? B757's i believe? though i did read somewhere HP was using A319's. is that true? anyways, i doubt our planes would reach OAK from BOS w/o having to divert for fuel. LGB is already cutting it close.

Good luck to all the airlines!

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineAirT85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2001 times:

Its my understanding that the A-320 can fly from Seattle to Miami non-stop which is the longest route possible in the US. So-wouldn't BOS-OAK also be within the range of the A-320?

Either way-this is going to get interesting for jetBlue. This isn't like Southwest moving in on weak USAirways/Metrojet in Baltimore. This is three pissed off majors (at least one of them with previous experience of moving B6 out of a market) standing up and defending their turf. I look forward to seeing the outcome.

-Tony


User currently offlineB6FA4ever From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 818 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

AirT85,

i'm sure the A320 can fly BOS-OAK non-stop BUT...that is more than likely a major airline A320 (ie: United Airlines). they have first class as well...also including the Economy Plus. so that means less seats...which means less weight on the plane. Our A320's are configured to 156 seats...so with a full plane that would be a lot of weight.

~B6FA4ever


User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1895 times:

"Come On... Jet Blue is not as cheap as everyone barks about!"

Everytime I have needed to fly B6 is always the highest in fare, and the HP flights are always full as well but they give me a lower fare and better connections then B6 can offer.


User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3012 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

Everytime I have needed to fly B6 is always the highest in fare, and the HP flights are always full as well but they give me a lower fare and better connections then B6 can offer.

JetBlue has lowered their walk-up fares by A LOT. I was checking the other day, and the walk-up fare from JFK-OAK, LAS, LGB, ONT, SEA, SLC was $119 one-way. $119!!! That's crazily low!

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineSunValley From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1827 times:

Today, the B6 walk up fares SLC-JFK are $199. LGB-JFK-$249.
SEA-JFK $179. OAK-JFK-$249 ONT-JFK $199. & DEN-JFK $199.
I didn't find a $119. walk up fare .

[Edited 2004-01-15 14:58:33]

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (10 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

You need to at some point realize that discontinuing routes like LGB-LAS, LGB-ATL, OAK-ATL will only hurt the airline in the long run.

JetBlue is not alone in discontinuing routes. Most airlines have discontinued routes in the past.

Look, JetBlue is not "in trouble" from this competition, at least not yet. HP saw an opportunity to grow it's brand name in the Northeast, so it started offering n/s flights to some selected West Coast markets from some selected East Coas markets. They're doing what the majors are incapable of doing (for the moment): making a big deal out of showing they are increasing service to existing customers.

By the same token, JetBlue is not in trouble because they offer flights and services that other airlines do not, and they have an excellent Public Relations department that keeps them in the minds of the flying public. Ask an average college student in the Northeast what airline he or she wants to fly. Odds are, they'll say JetBlue. Ask them about Continental, Northwest, or Delta, and they'll look at you funny and tell you they don't know anything about those carriers. It's called "evoked set" in marketing and it's a very powerful thing to be a part of for a company.

Remember, airline tickets are basically commodities anymore. In the minds of the general public, JetBlue is something different (at least, it is for now) but AA is UA is NW is CO is US is DL, etc, etc, etc.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
25 JetBluefan1 : Today, the B6 walk up fares SLC-JFK are $199. LGB-JFK-$249. SEA-JFK $179. OAK-JFK-$249 ONT-JFK $199. & DEN-JFK $199. I didn't find a $119. walk up far
26 JetBluefan1 : Actually, here are JetBlue's (lowest) cross country fares tomorrow: JFK-LGB $174, JFK-LAS $294 (kinda steep, I have to admit), JFK-OAK $119, JFK-ONT $
27 InnocuousFox : In a war of attrition, the side with the most soldiers wins. In a fare war, the side with the most cash sitting around wins. The point being, how long
28 Behramjee : I have flown many US domestic airlines and without a shadow of a doubt, JET BLUE is the best US airline serving domestic routes with the best INFLIGHT
29 OttoPylit : Jetbluefan, Of course Jetblue won't be fighting the other carriers on every route, but it is like fighting two fights at the same time(or in this case
30 AWA22 : $104 JFK-LAS on HP JFK-LAS $294 on B6 Now B6 is simply not worth that much money service wise, direct TV or not. That is both of their walk up 1 way f
31 LGB Photos : jetBlue is changing the face of the airline industry and no they are not in any trouble. Big difference here is convenience for the passanger. I don't
32 Luv2fly : OttoPylit The reason why B6 leaving ATL is so popular is because it shows that B6 is not invincible like the press and Neeleman make it out to be. It
33 Luv2fly : Also OttoPylit are you sure your not LHR001 as your writings and strong dislike for all LCC's sure make you sound like him, new year, new user ID? And
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Do JetBlue/America West Have A Codeshare? posted Sat Apr 21 2001 21:17:43 by B727
Explanation Of US Airways And America West Merger? posted Sat Dec 2 2006 22:28:22 by Chi-town
Horrible America West Experience posted Wed Nov 15 2006 20:06:44 by Fvyfireman
LAX-ACA On America West Dropped After 1/7/07 posted Tue Nov 14 2006 23:37:47 by FATFlyer
Help With America West 31, OGG-PHX posted Sat Nov 11 2006 15:29:55 by Flyboy7974
B737 - America West Livery In JNB posted Sun Nov 5 2006 10:46:45 by SA7700
America West In El Salvador? posted Fri Oct 27 2006 09:14:14 by AirTranTUS
America West To MLI? (Back In The Day) posted Sun Oct 22 2006 05:51:24 by B757capt
America West B747 posted Sun Oct 15 2006 15:54:40 by Akeytravel
Strategy Behind USAir-America West Merger posted Sun Jul 23 2006 21:00:52 by 777fan