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Could Someone Explain To Me Why AF Ordered 777?  
User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7251 times:

It would seem, that if AF ordered 772 and 773, they are saying that the 777's are better than there country's manufactured 340's.
I would never have excpect an airline such as AF, that is so involved in its country's politics to order a a/c from a competitor manufacture. ESPECIALLY USA!
I GUESS BOEING RULES  Smile

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDelta717 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 457 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7193 times:

My guess is they're going to start to phase out their older 744s and 340s.

User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

It was a way to pass a lazy afternoon?? I don't know really, good question.

User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13168 posts, RR: 78
Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

Certainly gives the lie to the idea that Airbus have a captive market in the EU.
(Oh, and Airbus is a consortium, including but not exclusively, France).


User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13168 posts, RR: 78
Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6924 times:

This extremely good site might help, click on 'Air France' and a detailed article on the AF 777 is part of an extensive AF fleet overview.
http://www.airtransportbiz.com/


User currently offlineCrosswind From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 2598 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6901 times:
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Air France became a B777 cutomer originally when they transferred unwanted B767-300 and B747-400 orders to the B777 programme. This avoided cancellation penalties, and of course Air France liked the economics of the twin. Of particular interest to AF was the B777-200's ability to carry the same number of economy passengers as the A340-300, but with larger First and Business class cabins...

Of course since then the type has become a major part of the Air France fleet, and in the future will be their main long-haul aircraft type.

Regards
CROSSWIND


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6801 times:

Air France is just like any another airline : Air France buys the best a/c on the market for its network and operations. Read me well : I don't say the B777 are better than the A340. B777 are better FOR AIR FRANCE than he A340.
France being part of Airbus Consortium doesn't oblige AF to buy only Airbus !

AF has always been a very faithful Boeing customer, for many many years. When AF bought the A340 in the early 90's, they didn't have the choice : they had to renew rapidly and old fleet (long-haul a/c with AF were at that time only the B747-100, 200, 200Combi and A300B4 ) and the A340 was the brand new a/c on the market, and AF was already operating the A320 since 1988. The B772 is an excellent plane for AF that gives very good results (reliable, easy & cheap maintenance, excellent PAX & Crews feedback) so AF trusts Boeing for its new B773ER.


User currently offlineDal777ams From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6790 times:

Better airplane!........

User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6731 times:

They bought it because they had orders for 767 and 747 that were transferred for 777 as Crosswind said. Since this is very good aircraft the will use it for many more years which doesn't mean that they will not fly on A330 and A340.

User currently offlineRichard28 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 1603 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6627 times:

To operate 744's, A330's, A343's, 772's and now 773's and soon A380's seems mad!

They need some decent accountants to sell the benefits of fleet harmonisation damn sharpish!!

(perhaps this is a legacy of state ownership and politics dictating fleet plans??)


User currently offlineFflood From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

In a word: POLITICS!


LINE UP AND WAIT
User currently offlineUAL747DEN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2392 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6492 times:

Just because they are a France airline doesn't mean they are stupid. Of course they know that the 777 is a better product, just like all Boeing's!


/// UNITED AIRLINES
User currently offlineGDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 13168 posts, RR: 78
Reply 12, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

If it was politics they'd have an all Airbus fleet.
Still, don't let cliches get in the way of facts, (what is it with a part of the US population that has a sudden drop in common sense and reasoning ability, when the word 'France' is mentioned?)


User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6461 times:

Richard28, the A380 is not yet in the fleet. A332 and A340 is the same aircraft type, just like B772 & B773.

Today, AF is operating 4 types of a/c in its long-haul fleet : B744, A332/343, B742/743 (for just another 2 years) and B772/B773.

and only 2 types in its short/medium haul fleet : A320 family (A318,19,20,21 ) and B737-500 for another 2 years. In 2006 : only one type ! couldn't be less...

Concening the long-haul, it's not different from what the other Majors are operating : LH : B744, A330/A340 (-300 & -600 ), MD11, A300-600, A310-300, A320 family, B733 & B735 etc... same thing with BA, IB (A320 family, MD80's, B757, B743, A340 (-300, -600), A300 & DC10 until last year ! etc...


User currently offlineFflood From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6441 times:

Politics, clear and simple.


LINE UP AND WAIT
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6428 times:

I recall reading that when AF was privatized, (although I think the government still holds some smaller chunk of equity today) the new managers insisted that the government not interfere in its decision making including fleet plans. Air France is now one of Europe's (and the world's) financially successful full-service airlines.

Had the government maintained its level of involvement, I personally doubt that they would operate B777 in any quantity and wonder whether AF could have become the profitable carrier that it is today.

Note: I am not attempting to correlate B777 to profitability and A340 to unprofitability per se.


User currently offlineHawaii12 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

One must not forget that some of the orders for the twin were placed before relations between the two countries went sour.

food for thought
cheers


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12217 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6299 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Asking why AF orders the 777 is the same as asking why NW has 319/320/330 in their fleet. The 320-series is highly popular here, why don't they buy 737s? NW is American, why don't they buy Boeing? It all comes down to which manufacturer gets them a better deal on the better product for what it's gonna be used for at the time. (Man, that was a long sentence)


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineFLYSSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

AF never ordered the B767. AF inherited the B767 (and further orders) when they bought and merged UTA in the early 90's. UTA, at that time, had orders for B767 (200 & 300) for its charter subsidiary Aéromaritime, and for A342 & A343 to replace its DC10's.

User currently offlineAApilot2b From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6159 times:

I read an article in one of my recent airline magazines (I wish I could remember which one, but I am away from home for the time being) that had a feature story on Air France. An interview with the head executives revealed the answer to the 777 question. There were no politics involved. The 777 was simply the best airplane for the routes they wanted to utilize it on and Air France believes it works well a long side their A340s. In fact the only politics involved was a lot of pressure from the French government not to go through with the 777 orders, but to buy Airbus. Fortunately for Boeing, the execs at Air France stuck to their guns and bought what they believed would be the better airplane (inspite of all the flack they received for those orders). Now that's what I like to see; an exec say, "screw your politics, we are in the business of making a profit...."

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User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 850 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6100 times:

Then expain to me why Lufthansa & Qantas dont order the 777???
Just because AF ordered them doesnt mean that B-team rules...
Oohh yeah, almost forgot:
They´re going for A380  Laugh out loud

Michael/SE



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 526 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5981 times:

Becasue the 777 is better than the 330's-340's
Plain and simple!


User currently offlineAmirs From Israel, joined Dec 2003, 1333 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5972 times:

KaiGywer
Sorry, but i dont think there is any room for comparison, between choices NWA make and AF make. The politics are totally different.
To think that a FRENCH partiallly owned carrier, picked an American product over a EUROPEAN product (which i don't need to remind you is manufactured and assembled in FRANCE) is weird.
You dont see LH or IB ordering 777's. They went with Europe.
That just says something about the French (and their warped politics) and obviously about the 777's superiority over 340's (-200, -500, -600 etc) .


User currently offlineCaravelle From Norway, joined Aug 2000, 666 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5915 times:

Many US airlines order Airbus, many European order Boeing. It's the way things should be in a fair world.

- caravelle



Trains and boats and planes....
User currently offlineTolosy From Luxembourg, joined Oct 2003, 357 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Hey, don't start again....

AF is buying 777 because managers are intelligent and have seen that the 773 suits best to AF needs.

It has nothing to see with politics. The fleet chosen by AF based only on Airbus for short haul and Boeing and Airbus for long haul allows flexibilty and benefits.

AF is one of the most profitable airline in Europe today.

Airlines buying airplanes for political reason in such a competitive market won't go far.

Airbus and Boeing have reached very high and similar standards, but each airplane suits to very specific need.

Some airlines choose Boeing for politics reason when Airbus would better suit to their needs.


AF buys Boeing, some should be happy  Wink/being sarcastic


Nick





25 Crosswind : Becasue the 777 is better than the 330's-340's Plain and simple! Why then did Air France order the A330-200 to replace their B767 fleet, after operati
26 Donder10 : (although I think the government still holds some smaller chunk of equity today) The French state is still the majority holder,AFAIK although with per
27 Post contains images Udo : UAL747DEN and Socalatc, It's always sad to see that people like you still drop their unqualified comments on that forum...if you only took some time a
28 Post contains images Solnabo : Wonder if the B-team inhere knows that Airbus is a consortsium: England/Spain/Germany/France and suppliers from a lot of other countrys? Why is it tha
29 Post contains images RJpieces : I always found the AF 777 order funny And don't forget they are diehard GE customers. As for their fleet now, the 777s fly the premium routes and the
30 Donder10 : Why is it that France always is the "Airbus-country"? What are the holding sizes of 4 countries though?
31 Post contains images Donder10 : I think AF ordering the 777-300ER is a sign of how much they love their 777-200ERs and how well that aircraft does for them. Or how much they love GE
32 Nudelhirsch : might be a reason, that they merge with KLM who has a B-fleet? fleet commonality and so on...and still keep some bus for the special occasions, like t
33 PilotNtrng : OK here we go with some more politics..... I have to totally agree with KaiGywer on this one. AF ordered the 777 because it is an aircraft they can ut
34 FLYSSC : If the B777 are better for AF than the A340, the A332 are incomparably better than the B767 and suits perfectly AF needs in terms of flexibility and r
35 N79969 : The best answer to this question is on the link provided by GDB. It is worth reading.
36 UAL747DEN : This is one of the most stupid threads of all time! Any airliner can order any plane and if the airlines only ordered planes from their countries we w
37 Leskova : The 773ER can - among other reasons (which may or may not be performance/financial/whatsoever related - but who here really knows???) - be explained b
38 AirGabon : Amirs: you said "That just says something about the French (and their warped politics) and obviously about the 777's superiority over 340's (-200, -50
39 Post contains images EmiratesA345 : UAL747DEN, You were singing a different tune just a little while ago. Let me refresh your memory. "Just because they are a France airline doesn't mean
40 Codeshare : To sum everything all up, before this whole topic goes nuts. For some routes the 777 is better, and for some the A330/340 is better. In AF's case they
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